Coyote wrote:Islam and Mormonism are growing fast. Good luck with that!
Actually, Mormonism in actual practicing numbers is only holding steady, and that only because they have so damn many kids and start so young, which means short generation times. (Storytime with Mayabird again: that Mormon I dated when I was an idiot freshman in college? He was under a lot of stress and looked down upon in his church because he was 19 and not married. I kinda felt sorry for the guy.) Their "official" numbers look like they're growing because they never take anyone off their records unless someone goes through an enormously convoluted, complicated, years-spanning quest to get their name taken out of their books.
Also, Sanchez, you forgot dancing and "taking the Lord's name in vain." I got in trouble for that at school. Public school. Stupid southern bastards.
DPDarkPrimus is my boyfriend!
SDNW4 Nation: The Refuge And, on Nova Terra, Al-Stan the Totally and Completely Honest and Legitimate Weapons Dealer and Used Starship Salesman slept on a bed made of money, with a blaster under his pillow and his sombrero pulled over his face. This is to say, he slept very well indeed.
General Zod wrote:
Their imperative is to follow whatever their magic sky pixie or preacher tells them
The magic sky pixie doesn't tell them anything. (Well, technically it might tell them something if they were willing to experiment chemically, but I don't exactly see a congregation going down that path).
CaptainZoidberg wrote:
The magic sky pixie doesn't tell them anything. (Well, technically it might tell them something if they were willing to experiment chemically, but I don't exactly see a congregation going down that path).
Way to make a completely useless and irrelevant non-sequitur.
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."
Mayabird wrote:Also, Sanchez, you forgot dancing and "taking the Lord's name in vain." I got in trouble for that at school. Public school. Stupid southern bastards.
Jesus Humbert Christ, are you kidding me? People still pull Footloose-style anti-dancing crap? God... fucking... dammit... that's stupid.
In Brazil they say that Pele was the best, but Garrincha was better
CaptainZoidberg wrote:
The magic sky pixie doesn't tell them anything. (Well, technically it might tell them something if they were willing to experiment chemically, but I don't exactly see a congregation going down that path).
Way to make a completely useless and irrelevant non-sequitur.
Mayabird wrote:Also, Sanchez, you forgot dancing and "taking the Lord's name in vain." I got in trouble for that at school. Public school. Stupid southern bastards.
Jesus Humbert Christ, are you kidding me? People still pull Footloose-style anti-dancing crap? God... fucking... dammit... that's stupid.
To be fair (and let no one say I'm unfair to those worthless excuses for hominids, who use up valuable resources and produce nothing but carbon dioxide and shit in return), the official ban-dancing pushes seem to be gone except for some old people in the middle of nowhere who are entirely irrelevant.
Unfortunately the thought processes have not left the rural churches, from what I remember hearing the dumbasses at school say. There were occasional mentions about somebody's preacher or some Sunday School lesson being about how sinful dancing was/could be/it's a gateway to DRUGS and SEX! These not being the most rational and questioning of folk, they always bought whatever was being told to them, though they usually forgot within a couple days. Maybe longer if there was a school dance, and a few would stay out for "religious reasons" though they'd be going to them again the next semester with the only person going "Wait a sec..." being me.
But we were talking about them going through a massive ban-everything backlash in their possible death throes, and since they still talk about it, it can still come back in force.
DPDarkPrimus is my boyfriend!
SDNW4 Nation: The Refuge And, on Nova Terra, Al-Stan the Totally and Completely Honest and Legitimate Weapons Dealer and Used Starship Salesman slept on a bed made of money, with a blaster under his pillow and his sombrero pulled over his face. This is to say, he slept very well indeed.
Between oil and the internet most people don’t have time for worshipping a third god these days.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
Things have definitely gotten better in some ways. But the basic philosophical mindset beneath religion is as popular as ever, which is why creationism is so popular. It's just the lifestyle restrictions of religion which are hurting it. People aren't actually embracing the scientific way of thinking; they're just rejecting religious restrictions on their behaviour. So they have the best of both worlds: they get to ignore whatever science says that they don't like, while being free to fuck around and sleep in on Sundays.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Things have definitely gotten better in some ways. But the basic philosophical mindset beneath religion is as popular as ever, which is why creationism is so popular. It's just the lifestyle restrictions of religion which are hurting it. People aren't actually embracing the scientific way of thinking; they're just rejecting religious restrictions on their behaviour. So they have the best of both worlds: they get to ignore whatever science says that they don't like, while being free to fuck around and sleep in on Sundays.
Yes this is true. I'd wager to say that because even "mainstream" people like married hetero's chafe under ridiculous rules such as no contraception, they are already relaxing their religion's degree of control over them. If they do not follow it 100% then they are in effect demonstrating that they do not feel it's completely inerrant or inflexible.
It's harder for these people (although not impossible) to hypocritically trumpet cherry-picked versus against homosexuality while ignoring other tenets of their church.
The Christian religion will probably never die. It's extremely difficult to expose and falsify an entire belief system that so many people DESPERATELY want to believe. It's really too bad that the entire thrust of the religion wasn't focused on love and kindness and not interfering in any way with victimless crimes or insignificant dietary and behavior restrictions. Then there wouldn't even be much argument. Well....scientists would certainly have an opinion, but if they were just promoting these kind of ideals as the TRUE virtue's of human behavior (recognized as good by God), then even those who do not believe in a deity could still agree with the tenets. It would just be humanism with a Godhead added.
In the name of truth it might not be much better then the creeds we have now, but in practice it would be oh so superior.
You have to realize that most Christian "moral values" behaviour is not really about "protecting" anyone; it's about their desire to send a continual stream of messages of condemnation towards people whose existence offends them. - Darth Wong alias Mike Wong
"There is nothing wrong with being ignorant. However, there is something very wrong with not choosing to exchange ignorance for knowledge when the opportunity presents itself."
I grew up in the southern baptist church, until I was old enough and I found out the truth (around 16)
So their decline: ..Didnt happen soon enough or fast enough. I have nothing good to say about that denomination, it was them that wouldnt let my mother go to the doctor, and tried to change her schedule so she couldnt go......she died a year latter.
Zwinmar wrote:I grew up in the southern baptist church, until I was old enough and I found out the truth (around 16)
So their decline: ..Didnt happen soon enough or fast enough. I have nothing good to say about that denomination, it was them that wouldnt let my mother go to the doctor, and tried to change her schedule so she couldnt go......she died a year latter.
What kind of fucked up ministry was that? I've never known Southern Baptists on the whole to be opposed to medical aid like, say, the Jehovah's Witnesses.
And not to play "blame the victim" (and I most emphatically am not doing so), but she was really that deep under their sway that she couldn't tell the elders to mind their own goddamned business or walk away? It's certainly obvious why you hate them.
When ballots have fairly and constitutionally decided, there can be no successful appeal back to bullets.
—Abraham Lincoln
People pray so that God won't crush them like bugs.
—Dr. Gregory House
Oil an emergency?! It's about time, Brigadier, that the leaders of this planet of yours realised that to remain dependent upon a mineral slime simply doesn't make sense.
—The Doctor "Terror Of The Zygons" (1975)
CaptainZoidberg wrote:I think the Baptists need to get back to community service, charity, etc.
Those Baptist so inclined left the SBC years ago. The only thing that matters to the SBC leadership is enforcing their specific doctrines among the member churches. I grew up in a very progressive Baptist church belonging to the SBC and even as a kid the strain was easily seen.
The most basic assumption about the world is that it does not contradict itself.
Mayabird wrote:
Also, Sanchez, you forgot dancing and "taking the Lord's name in vain." I got in trouble for that at school. Public school. Stupid southern bastards.
Here in Northern Virginia this nice young lady got offended when my government teacher "took the Lord's name in vain". (Mr. Driscol was of the opinion that being-super-dooper careful with language with High School Seniors was an exercise in idiocy).
The which Mr. Driscol replied. "I didn't take it in vain. I meant it."
I've since used that retort to navy coworkers who said that to me, and just like in High School, you could tell the train went flying off the tracks in their mind when they tried to digest this.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
Zwinmar wrote:I grew up in the southern baptist church, until I was old enough and I found out the truth (around 16)
So their decline: ..Didnt happen soon enough or fast enough. I have nothing good to say about that denomination, it was them that wouldnt let my mother go to the doctor, and tried to change her schedule so she couldnt go......she died a year latter.
What kind of fucked up ministry was that? I've never known Southern Baptists on the whole to be opposed to medical aid like, say, the Jehovah's Witnesses.
And not to play "blame the victim" (and I most emphatically am not doing so), but she was really that deep under their sway that she couldn't tell the elders to mind their own goddamned business or walk away? It's certainly obvious why you hate them.
She was a teacher at the school, they just better be glad I was 1,000 miles way or more at the time. When my dad told it the shot gun was in hand.
Guardsman Bass wrote:What churches are growing quickly in the United States (and not simply because of small initial numbers)? The Baptists could always just borrow shamelessly from their books of missionary tactics.
Wicca is growing rapidly also, but I don't see them going that way.
Darth Wong wrote:The "prosperity gospel" mega-churches are growing quickly. Think of the mutant bastard love child of Wal-Mart, Oprah Winfrey, and Christianity.
Consumerism and religion in one neat package. How wonderfully American.
Adrian Laguna wrote:Consumerism and religion in one neat package. How wonderfully American.
American religion is consumeristic; it's been that way for a long time. People are encouraged to shop around for churches that mesh with their tastes, proselytizers pitch their product with language that is almost identical to infomercial language ("It's so easy! Just follow these three simple steps, and your life will be complete!").
Morilore wrote: People are encouraged to shop around for churches that mesh with their tastes
I don't see what's so bad about that part. It's better for people to be able to choose a church that fits their ethics than to have to go to some arbitrary church just because their parents went their.
Besides, it adds a layer of accountability into the system. In a church knows that they'll lose their audience if they do something stupid or abuse the system, they won't do it.
CaptainZoidberg wrote:
I don't see what's so bad about that part. It's better for people to be able to choose a church that fits their ethics than to have to go to some arbitrary church just because their parents went their.
Besides, it adds a layer of accountability into the system. In a church knows
that they'll lose their audience if they do something stupid or abuse the system, they won't do it.
Replace "mesh with their taste" with "tells them what they want to hear". It doesn't speak very highly of an ethical system that encourages people to shut out dissenting viewpoints.
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."
