Screwball Vegan parents could be criminally charged

[Superman]

A 12-YEAR-OLD girl in Scotland brought up by her parents on a strict vegan diet has been admitted to hospital with a degenerative bone condition said to have left her with the spine of an 80-year-old woman.

Doctors are under pressure to report the couple to police and social workers amid concerns that her health and welfare may have been neglected in pursuit of their dietary beliefs.

The girl, who has been fed on a strict meat and dairy-free diet from birth, is said to have a severe form of rickets and to have suffered a number of fractured bones.

The condition is caused by a lack of vitamin D, which is needed to absorb calcium and is found in liver, oily fish and dairy produce. Decalcification leads to the bones becoming brittle and can cause curvature of the spine.

Dr Faisal Ahmed, the consultant paediatrician treating the child at the Royal Hospital for Sick Children in Glasgow, declined to discuss the specific case. He said, however, that he believed the dangers of forcing children to follow a strict vegan diet needed to be highlighted.

One leading nutritionist, who asked not to be named, said: “In most instances, the parents who are imposing this very restrictive and potentially hazardous diet are not themselves brought up as vegans. They are imposing on their children something . . . which we do not know enough about to know it is safe.”

Jonathan Sher, head of policy at Children in Scotland, an umbrella group representing 400 organisations, said social workers should intervene where a vegan diet was putting children’s health at risk.

Last year, an American vegan couple were given a life sentence for starving their six-week-old baby to death. In 2001 two vegans from west London were sentenced to three years’ community rehabilitation after they admitted starving their baby to death.

Glasgow city council said the incident involving the 12-year-old girl had not been referred to its social work department.

Linky

[Superboy]

Whatever happens, they've certainly proven themselves to be too stupid to raise a child. I almost feel bad for them since they had no ill intent, but stupidity is no excuse for screwing up your childs health so severly.

I found this part interesting:

Last year, an American vegan couple were given a life sentence for starving their six-week-old baby to death. In 2001 two vegans from west London were sentenced to three years’ community rehabilitation after they admitted starving their baby to death.

Why the massive difference in sentences? Is America generally more strict about this kind of thing?

[Darth Wong]

Whatever happens, they've certainly proven themselves to be too stupid to raise a child. I almost feel bad for them since they had no ill intent, but stupidity is no excuse for screwing up your childs health so severly.

Every parent has a solemn responsibility to his or her child. Failure to live up to this responsibility should be a crime. Extreme failure to live up to this responsibility should be treated as a very serious crime. I hate the way ethics in our society has devolved to an exclusive discussion of rights, with no interest in responsibility.

Last year, an American vegan couple were given a life sentence for starving their six-week-old baby to death. In 2001 two vegans from west London were sentenced to three years’ community rehabilitation after they admitted starving their baby to death.

Why the massive difference in sentences? Is America generally more strict about this kind of thing?

Not exactly. Andrea Yates murdered her children and she got off scot-free, because she was clinically depressed. It seems to me that there's an element of luck here.

[Sidewinder]

Do the parents have religious reasons for not eating meat and forcing their child to not eat meat? Or are they the stereotypical "godless but spiritual Communist-wannabe liberal hippie who embraces the fad lifestyle/political views of the week like gaudy clothing" that political conservatives use to justify their views on liberals?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Do the parents have religious reasons for not eating meat and forcing their child to not eat meat? Or are they the stereotypical "godless but spiritual Communist-wannabe liberal hippie who embraces the fad lifestyle/political views of the week like gaudy clothing" that political conservatives use to justify their views on liberals?

I have known people who are extremely "religious" about their dietary selection, but by no means are they even have some political/religious reason for it.

[Sidewinder]

Andrea Yates murdered her children and she got off scot-free, because she was clinically depressed. It seems to me that there's an element of luck here.

IIRC, the jury accepted that, because Yates was insane, she wasn't culpable of the murders because she was unable to recognize the enormity of her actions. (I agree it's fucked up, but that's the law here.)

[Sea Skimmer]

Well that’s pretty fucked up, but the condition is supposedly caused by a lack of vitamin D, and your body can make that from exposure to UV rays, so I wonder if more isn’t involved in this then just the diet. A vegan diet can be reasonably healthy, but you pretty much must be a nutritionist or consult one in ordered to know what the fuck to eat and in what quantity. I’m sure these parents didn’t bother, they probably read a website or a six dollar book, if that.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Well that’s pretty fucked up, but the condition is supposedly caused by a lack of vitamin D, and your body can make that from exposure to UV rays, so I wonder if more isn’t involved in this then just the diet. A vegan diet can be reasonably healthy, but you pretty much must be a nutritionist or consult one in ordered to know what the fuck to eat and in what quantity. I’m sure these parents didn’t bother, they probably read a website or a six dollar book, if that.

As for vitamin D, depending on the weather in scottland, there may not have been adequate sun exposure to produce the needed vitamin D, or if she was black, high levels of melanin block vit D synthesis. THis is actually why vitamin D is added to milk.... otherwise various types of brown people will get rickets in northern climates.

[tim31]

We get decent Vitamin D exposure from indirect sunshine(read: cloud cover) down this end of the world owing to ozone depletion. Hopefully that is why we won't hear about that sort of thing coming about in the antipodes. It's fucking terrible.

[Sarevok]

The line about being left with the spine of an 80 year old just frightened me. Someone please confirm modern medicine can cure this. This is one of the worst forms of nightmare I can imagine

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

The line about being left with the spine of an 80 year old just frightened me. Someone please confirm modern medicine can cure this. This is one of the worst forms of nightmare I can imagine

Well, some syndromes which are a result of Vitamin D deficiency are permanent.

In theory I guess they could construct a metal brace for her spine but it will be a life long problem.

[Karza]

Last year, an American vegan couple were given a life sentence for starving their six-week-old baby to death. In 2001 two vegans from west London were sentenced to three years’ community rehabilitation after they admitted starving their baby to death.

Wait, what? Did they consider breastfeeding or mix against their principles too?

[Broomstick]

Well that’s pretty fucked up, but the condition is supposedly caused by a lack of vitamin D, and your body can make that from exposure to UV rays, so I wonder if more isn’t involved in this then just the diet

It's already been mentioned that Scotland doesn't get a lot of sunshine, particularly in the winter months. Traditionally, the Scots used both milk and fish which would offset the lack of sunshine generated vitamin D, and the natural paleness of skin in UK natives helped as well. Vegans, however, would be at high risk of rickets in such an environment.

If they also fed her a low-fat diet that would only complicate the situation, as fats are required for the body to utilize vitamins like D, A, and other fat soluble vitamins.

The line about being left with the spine of an 80 year old just frightened me. Someone please confirm modern medicine can cure this. This is one of the worst forms of nightmare I can imagine

No, that can not be fixed. It can be treated so she is better off than she would be otherwise, but there is no cure for something like that.

Last year, an American vegan couple were given a life sentence for starving their six-week-old baby to death. In 2001 two vegans from west London were sentenced to three years’ community rehabilitation after they admitted starving their baby to death.

Wait, what? Did they consider breastfeeding or mix against their principles too?

Yes - no animal products, remember? Including breast milk, because humans are animals....

[Spin Echo]

Wait, what? Did they consider breastfeeding or mix against their principles too?

Yes - no animal products, remember? Including breast milk, because humans are animals....

I don't think this is the typical mindset. The vegan propaganda I've seen has always said breastfeeding is vegan.

[Vehrec]

Wait, what? Did they consider breastfeeding or mix against their principles too?

Yes - no animal products, remember? Including breast milk, because humans are animals....

I don't think this is the typical mindset. The vegan propaganda I've seen has always said breastfeeding is vegan.

But if the mother Eats Vegan while she breastfeeds and does not consume significant nutritional supplements in certain vital fatty acids and vitamins, she will be unable to produce breastmilk that will be able to support an infant. Quite tragic really. Anyone who is contemplating a major change in their diet, for any reason, should seek out a lot of information on dietary needs of the human body. If I was vegan for instance, I would switch to a bean-heavy diet supplemented with major amounts of vegetables and fruits. Even with a highly-diversified diet, I would take broad-spectrum multi-vitamins to push my body's intake up to levels that are consistent with a more balanced diet. These people have obviously neglected their studies of developmental nutrition. Kids just have higher requirements per unit body mass for lots of things than adults do.

[Broomstick]

Wait, what? Did they consider breastfeeding or mix against their principles too?

Yes - no animal products, remember? Including breast milk, because humans are animals....

I don't think this is the typical mindset. The vegan propaganda I've seen has always said breastfeeding is vegan.

I realize that. However, if the couple that went to jail are the ones that I think they are, they did, indeed hold that atypical opinion. I am aware that MOST vegans think breast is best but apparently no one told that couple.

[Aeolus]

Last year, an American vegan couple were given a life sentence for starving their six-week-old baby to death. In 2001 two vegans from west London were sentenced to three years’ community rehabilitation after they admitted starving their baby to death.

Wait, what? Did they consider breastfeeding or mix against their principles too?

If they are strict vegans than they probably do.

[Mange]

Last year, an American vegan couple were given a life sentence for starving their six-week-old baby to death. In 2001 two vegans from west London were sentenced to three years’ community rehabilitation after they admitted starving their baby to death.

Wait, what? Did they consider breastfeeding or mix against their principles too?

I remember reading about a case which took place a few years ago in the U.S. where the parents of an infant were charged (and IIRC found guilty of murder) after the child died as the result of malnutrition. The parents fed the child soy milk and apple juice and explained that they were following their conviction not to use any "animal products".

[Mange]

Darn, I believe it's the same case that Superboy mentioned further above.

[Elfdart]

Do the parents have religious reasons for not eating meat and forcing their child to not eat meat? Or are they the stereotypical "godless but spiritual Communist-wannabe liberal hippie who embraces the fad lifestyle/political views of the week like gaudy clothing" that political conservatives use to justify their views on liberals?

The notion that people should NEVER eat animals or animal byproducts is a form of religion: Animal Deification. You want to know how fanatical it is? The Koran allows the faithful to eat forbidden foods (pork, catfish, horsemeat, shellfish) if the alternative is starving, and the vast majority of fundie Jews allow the eating of non-kosher food, on the assumption that the diet laws are principles to live by, not principles to die by. Only the most fanatical Hindus would rather starve than eat beef. So these "parents" (I use the "" because animals wouldn't deliberately starve their own young) are fanatics, and since their fanaticism killed, they deserve the harshest penalties the law will allow.

[Broomstick]

Do the parents have religious reasons for not eating meat and forcing their child to not eat meat? Or are they the stereotypical "godless but spiritual Communist-wannabe liberal hippie who embraces the fad lifestyle/political views of the week like gaudy clothing" that political conservatives use to justify their views on liberals?

The notion that people should NEVER eat animals or animal byproducts is a form of religion: Animal Deification. You want to know how fanatical it is? The Koran allows the faithful to eat forbidden foods (pork, catfish, horsemeat, shellfish) if the alternative is starving,

I was wondering about that - I thought it was the case, but it's been 30 years since I read the Koran so I wasn't sure I remembered that correctly or not.

and the vast majority of fundie Jews allow the eating of non-kosher food, on the assumption that the diet laws are principles to live by, not principles to die by.

Just a nitpick - Judaism does not "permit" the eating of non-kosher food when the alternative is death, it REQUIRES it - preservation of life takes precedence over dietary laws. This is why Jews have no problems with blood transfusions (unlike Jehovah's witnesses) or, say, pig-derived replacement heart valves.

[Qwerty 42]

I can't help but think that vegans, or at least sensible vegans, would have no problem with breastfeeding: the entire problem with the eating of animals or animal products is that they can't give consent. Obviously, a breastfeeding mother would give consent.

[Sidewinder]

The notion that people should NEVER eat animals or animal byproducts is a form of religion: Animal Deification. You want to know how fanatical it is? The Koran allows the faithful to eat forbidden foods (pork, catfish, horsemeat, shellfish) if the alternative is starving, and the vast majority of fundie Jews allow the eating of non-kosher food, on the assumption that the diet laws are principles to live by, not principles to die by.

I wonder how the New Age notion of Animal Deification came about (it's noticeably different from the worship of animal totems I read about in mythology), especially considering these New Age people are often seen as atheists despite their belief in a higher power (Gaia), souls (spiritualism), magic (crystals and their ability to tune people's life energy). And unlike the gods that are traditionally worshiped, the de facto gods the New Age people obey don't seem to give a damn about what happens to her followers.

[Elfdart]

Jainists won't kill animals under any conditions if they can help it, so maybe it caught on back when Nehru jackets were fashionable and people used to cheer wildly when Ravi Shankar tuned his sitar.

I also think Disney had a hand in it, with his talking cartoon animals -especially Bambi. Animal rights nuts always show a kind of infantile attitude towards nature.

[CJvR]

IIRC the best summation of the Greens came from Yes Minister.
[Sir Humphrey Appleby]The only ones who care about nature is the urban middleclass because they don't have to live in it.[/Sir Humphrey Appleby]