[Discussion] Request for reinstatement from Bluewolf

[Darth Wong]

I recently received an E-mail from a banned user named Bluewolf. You won't find him on the Parting Shots forum because he asked for our help in hacking a forum where he had a feud with somebody else. As a result, he was immediately banned because we take any kind of incitement to illegal activity very seriously. This happened in September of last year.

Ordinarily, I would say that's the end of it. However, he has recently contacted me, asked forgiveness, and explained that he had just turned 15 when he joined SDN, and was very immature. Of course, this would mean he is only 16 now, so he is still very immature

In any case, here's a portion of his E-mail:

I joined SDN around in August as Bluewolf; I can not remember the
exact join date. After a fair amount of lurking I thought it was a
good site to join. I was quiet mostly in forum terms. A post here and
there really so you could say that I was one of those guys who was
still finding his way around. I enjoyed the site though. It had many
very interested threads and articles had a good userbase and generally
how it was run was something new as opposed to most forums. Early in
September though I had some trouble with an RP forum I was with.
Several large arguments broke how, things got angry over it and posted
a thread in the Gaming and Computers asking how to hack the site (it
was a proboard free site). Soon after the thread got swiftly deleted
and I was perma banned by Dalton. A while after I did try to use my
other email addresses to get in again which I admit was pathetic. I
had never been banned from such as site before so I was kind of
desperate to get back on again.

A while after though I got on with my life and other things. I matured
a lot between now and 2007. I have much more self control over myself
now so I am less likely to do something stupid like that again. Among
other things I am a much more rational person but I will admit I am
still quite impatient at times. The thing is that with all this I
realize that my little outburst was for nothing and just simply
idiotic (I mean I thought the idea of hacking was minor like some kind
of 4chan raid). The person's RP I wanted to hack in that thread never
got the said site off the ground. I had gotten banned for nothing you
could say. Now though I just don't want my idiocy from last year to
keep having an effect. I mean I had only just turned 15 when I joined
SDN. Now I realize I broke the rules. It was my fault, simple as that.
I am not going to blame anyone else for it. I have not seen anyone
return from a ban but I request of you that I have a second chance;
another chance just to prove that I am not that same guy from 2007.
You or anyone on SDN does not owe me any favours. I just want to
return really. I am willing to take on any custom title or restriction
if you do. I don't mind if you put it up for the whole senate to
judge. I am not going to raise a fuss if you say no. It's your forum,
your rules. I just want to know if there is a chance.

What say you, Senators?

[Mr Bean]

He stays banned for another two years I say.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Tell him he can come back if he provides a new, university e-mail address in two years. If he is responsible enough two years from now to have gotten into college, I think it would be acceptable to restore him, but not before that, and not without that precondition (of his showing his ability to do something constructive in real life). Just my thoughts on the matter, but I don't see a reason to unban him otherwise.

[Coyote]

I say allow him back, perhaps on a 6-month probationary type period, up for review around December.

Let it not be said that we are without mercy... or the willingness to allow someone sufficient rope...

[Coyote]

I'm not sure of comments from the peanut gallery are invited in this manner, but a plebe has uttered some commentary:

I personally say that we let him in for probation time. We have quite abit of users who started off as teenagers, and while quite a few of them were crap and stayed that way, enough improved. I think he just went further off the rails then most of our teenagers, who stick to spamming.
If he's back, can contribute, or atleast, shuts up, I see no reason not to welcome him back.

Whats the worst that can happen, he dumps another turd all over the forum and we ban him again?

[Ghost Rider]

He was practically a yabbering spammer who made the mistake of doing the wrong fucking thing.

When he gets university address, then we can think of letting him back in.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

He said so himself. He lurked long enough to have read the rules, and then he chose to ignore them. And then he tried to get around having been banned for breaking the rules. I can't really say that I'm feeling a great deal of sympathy for him at the moment. So I'm going to adopt the stance that he's just fine where he is.

[seanrobertson]

I say allow him back, perhaps on a 6-month probationary type period, up for review around December.

Agreed.

His ban was certainly just. Even if the site's rules weren't cast in stone, getting the boot was the best thing that could've happened to him.

But since he's so young and I like what he says to the Emperor, I'm willing to cut him some slack. Put yourselves in his place, senators. Even if we wouldn't have made the same mistake, I imagine many of our fifteen-year-old selves' Internet behavior would compare quite poorly compared to how we conduct ourselves today.

Perhaps the site doesn't stand to gain much from a once-banned kid, but I don't see what we stand to lose, either: if he fucks up again, it'd be easy to ditch him a second and final time.

I'm in favor of granting him a six-month trial membership. I'll even volunteer to keep close tabs, and compile notes on, his conduct. By the time his probationary period is up, I'd have plenty of information from which we can draw conclusions.

[Imperial Overlord]

I concur with Coyote and seanrobertson. It's easy enough to ban him again if he hasn't improved.

[Broomstick]

What impressed me about the e-mail were the following:

1) He admitted he broke the rules, and it's his own fault he did that.
2) He admitted he was an immature idiot
3) He's not demanding, he's asking, with the full realization he may be turned down because, after all, he broke the rules and he's very much asking for an exception.

I have concerns that he is still so young. Yes, 15 to 16 can mean great strides in thinking ability, maturity, responsibility, etc... but maybe not. Is he eloquent but essentially unchanged, or has he actually changed?

Has he been active on other forums, where someone from here could see how he has conducted himself elsewhere? Does he follow their rules? Does he advocate illegal activities or not?

We just booted Warsie for an illegal act, I can't imagine the Senate is feeling particularly lenient right now.

Personally, I would be willing to bring him back on probation if a majority of the Senate was willing, but I'm not going to push for anything of the sort. One screw up, and he's gone for good. I'm willing to do it now, or when he can post from a university.

[Darth Wong]

Poll added.

[Mad]

What was his previous behavior, aside from the incident that resulted in the ban? Based on the e-mail, he seems sincere. If he's learned his lesson, then good. If he hasn't, then he can be booted out again with pretty much zero chance for a third try. His previous posting history may give some clue as to whether this was a one-off kind of thing or if he's likely to break the rules again.

Requiring a university e-mail address strikes me as narrow-minded. Idiots can get into university, and attending university isn't a prerequisite to being a well-adjusted human being.

Edit: since the poll's up, voted for reinstatement with probation.

[Ghost Rider]

What was his previous behavior, aside from the incident that resulted in the ban? Based on the e-mail, he seems sincere. If he's learned his lesson, then good. If he hasn't, then he can be booted out again with pretty much zero chance for a third try. His previous posting history may give some clue as to whether this was a one-off kind of thing or if he's likely to break the rules again.

Requiring a university e-mail address strikes me as narrow-minded. Idiots can get into university, and attending university isn't a prerequisite to being a well-adjusted human being.

Edit: since the poll's up, voted for reinstatement with probation.

To what type of poster?

If he was in G&C he wasn't bad. He contributed to the threads and was different then EP or DEATH in that regard.

In the regular forums he was either a ra-ra cheerleader or slightly off spammer.

What got him in trouble is that he's one of the few who note things on other boards and asks us about it, the difference being this time he wanted us to take action.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

A university e-mail address it the only achievement metric we can reasonably impose, that's why I proposed it. At the very least, don't let him back until he turns 18, for christ's sake--he might actually turn into a worthwhile poster if we make him wait longer, whereas letting him back now is sure to just get him permbanned again.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

A university e-mail address it the only achievement metric we can reasonably impose, that's why I proposed it. At the very least, don't let him back until he turns 18, for christ's sake--he might actually turn into a worthwhile poster if we make him wait longer, whereas letting him back now is sure to just get him permbanned again.

Unfortunately, just because someone gets to university does not, in any way, imply any real measure of maturity. So as a metric of progress, a university e-mail address falls flat.

[Broomstick]

A university e-mail address it the only achievement metric we can reasonably impose, that's why I proposed it.

What if he chooses to learn a trade instead of going to a university?

What if economic necessity dictates he works for a living instead of continuing his education?

I'm afraid I can't approve of excluding the peasants, however much the Duchess may desire it, being of the aristocracy (I kid, I kid...). But really, either of the above alternatives can also indicate maturity and proper decision making. "University" is not a universal solution to "what do I do when I graduate high school?"

At the very least, don't let him back until he turns 18, for christ's sake--he might actually turn into a worthwhile poster if we make him wait longer, whereas letting him back now is sure to just get him permbanned again.

I'm not sure what makes 18 a magic number in this context. Why not 17? Or 19? Or 21?

That's why I suggested seeing how he conducts himself on other forums... although I acknowledge some difficulty in putting that into effect.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Actually, I am sort of of the aristocracy--a long long time ago, in a continent far, far away, one of my ancestors had a "von" in his name, back in the day when that meant something. That does not, however, mean anything now--they came over stateside in rather bad conditions and the family worked in factories until one of them invented a machine for cutting milk-bottle caps and forming them and placing them on milk-bottles in one process out of sheet metal, which made him into a millionaire and sent my dad to college.

[Edi]

Reinstatement on propbation, for the reasons Coyote, Broomstick and seanrobertson said.

[K. A. Pital]

Dangerous stupidity from said user makes me inclined towards "never". However, I think a little later might be best. When he turns 18, perhaps...

[Surlethe]

He seems sincerely contrite (if a little challenged in the comma department ). I support reinstating him on probation for reasons stated, esp. by Broomstick.

[Hotfoot]

Let him in with a probationary period of 2d6 months. Make the roll in secret so he doesn't know how long exactly he's got to behave for. Throw on an additional 1d6 months for any perceived minor issue.

Or just ban him the second he gets out of line. Whatever.

[Coyote]

Another comment from among the commons has been sent to my PM box:

When I first came to this site, I was young and stupid. I have since become not quite as young, and not quite as stupid, and so I understand the kind of transformation Bluewolf claims to have undergone. The mere fact that he emailed Mike a year after getting banned, as well as the wording of said email, indicate at least to me that he is concious enough of his own stupidity, and interested enough in this board, that he will work hard not to repeat his mistake. Obviously he would have to be on some form of probation, but if he is fully willing to accept that then it is the humble opinion of this peon that he should get a second chance.

Note, I almost said that he deserved a second chance. He doesn't actually deserve shit, but I think he should get a second chance anyway.

I'll add from my own perspective, not only did he PM Mike with contrition, the fact that he did this at all, coming back to ask for a rescind of a ban, is kinda ballsy. I respect that.

[Noble Ire]

I think returning him under terms of probation is perfectly acceptable. He has received a level of sanction, as was due, and I think his apparent introspection should be rewarded. If he makes another significant error, he can easily be removed agan; I don't see why leniency shouldn't be offered.

[Coyote]

What got him in trouble is that he's one of the few who note things on other boards and asks us about it, the difference being this time he wanted us to take action.

He admitted that he thought "hacking" a board meant basically a "guild raid", whereas SDN logs onto the site and spams it, like the old AIIF days, which we discontinued. And, the board he wanted us to "hack" ("raid", actually) was so pathetic it died on its own, adding chagrin to his pathos, which he now acknowledges.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

What got him in trouble is that he's one of the few who note things on other boards and asks us about it, the difference being this time he wanted us to take action.

He admitted that he thought "hacking" a board meant basically a "guild raid", whereas SDN logs onto the site and spams it, like the old AIIF days, which we discontinued. And, the board he wanted us to "hack" ("raid", actually) was so pathetic it died on its own, adding chagrin to his pathos, which he now acknowledges.

Which is, technically, a sort of DOS attack. Just because he wasn't enlisting our help to crack the admin's password doesn't mean that he wasn't attempting to round up support to do something that might possibly be illegal. And his plea of ignorance regarding what hacking means, makes me want to doubt the sincerity of his contrition. Unless he grew up under a rock, I find it a bit difficult to believe that he could've possibly misconstrued hacking as any sort of benign activity.