Andromeda Systems Commonwealth vs Galactic Empire

[Mr Bean]

Do you have smilies disabled? Or are just blind, I notice in the quote you edited it out and then called me a moron,

Gee thanks that helped your point get accross real well

You then build an exact copy of the unit, and then install it on a testbed ship to run tests on the system. You don't actually have to know why it works to build one, as long as you have the technological base to get an exact enough schematic of the thing you are building.

Anyone see the conraditcion here?
A Schematic are drawings of how to BUILD somthing, If you don't know how it works prehaps putting that tritum in before the berillium results in a nuclear reation maychance?
Just because you have inside and outside pictures of EVERY little system does not mean your going to be able to build it,
As for the second part about you can build one without know how it works
So your telling me if I gave you the complete scematics down to the sub-atomic level you could build me a working A-Bomb?

Sure would easly be able to build me a ship, But is the ship going to work, IE did you just build the universe biggest papaerweight or did you assemble a fully funcioning ship?


Finaly somthing that was news to me

The fact the Empire has the technology to convert energy to matter makes copying a captured piece of technology relatively simple.

Realy? They have this? News to me. Never seen Mike or anyone else use this.


Oh and one last condraitction

However, long before they crack this...if Slipstream is found to be superior (in most instances it is)...ships will be using copies of the captured unit

Agian the being able to build fully funcitioning systems without having any clue how they work
NTM you forget somthing
Slipstream is dependant on a PILOT, Besides the sheer fact there is a WAR going on your going to need pilots to fly said ships if you want them to get anywhere(You can get a ship into slipstream without a pilot, you can't get it where you want to go though)
And are you getting these ships from where now? Sure you could build them into existing modles, oh BTW without know how they work oh and you have to do months of figuring out how the hell to put these things into your ships(Gotta re-do the plans) NTM acutal building the things which still takes a month or two even in SWs NTM train the crews on how to use them and a myrid of other factors of the fact its gonna be a looong time before you have a slip stream realy force big enough to attack them

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

The High Guard only had 300,000 capital ships. This fails to even consider the Home Guard forces.

and this was mentioned when? Size?

If the Nietzscheans have their way then the Empire is nova bomb bait. Even assuming they don't get their way the Commonwealth would break out strategic weapons if the Empire did.

And all the Nietzshean and CW worlds were nova bombed in the Fall. Oh wait, they weren't.

Thanks for ignoring why the Empire wouldn't.

Prove that a 200 GT hit will kill a GHC. In Under the Night the Andromeda came under simultaneous attack by 500 Nietzschean vessels for several second before her defenses were turned on. Even assuming that Nietzschean capital ships are as lightly armed as a High Endurance Research Cruiser they would still have 8 ELS tubes. That would mean she was soaking up over 700 GT of damage a second for at least 3 or 4 seconds before her PDLs and defensive batteries were brought online. This is of course assuming that Nietzscheans destroyers are as lightly armed as lightweight survey ship, which from all indications they are not.

An ISD-II has 64 heavy turbolaser cannons. A single broadside would bring 6400 gigatons of death on a XMC. That's 320 times a missle barrage (20 gigatons) It will NOT survive that.

A To Seek To Find class High Endurance Research Cruiser has 8 missiles tubes. A Glorious Heritage heavy Cruiser mounts 40 ELS tubes and you are totally disregarding AP cannons which have been stated to be more powerful than the offensive missiles.

Still not enough.

[Mr Bean]

NTM Fighters

ISD-IIs carry what? 144?

The Andromda carrys what a full squad? 12 plus backups?
I acutal don't know, does anyone know the specfici fighter makeup of a Highguard ship?(number, size, type, ect)

[omegaLancer]

One of the issue is how the CW and Empire meets, First what is the distant from the nearest common wealth world to the empire...

From AOTC we know that republic had reach several of the obriting polar galaxies, also that the transit time of hyperspace is depend on several conditions..

There are natural routes in hyperspace that allow faster than normal travel, what if the empire find such a route that allow them to reach the republic in weeks ...

We know that the republic sent an a group of jedi to another Galaxy ( sadily they never made it), but would the republic have sponsor such a journey if it took several life times to complete, so maybe such a route was discovered and the Emperor suppress the knowledge of such a route...

In one episode of Andromeda, the Andromeda Ascendant traveled to a galaxy 66 million light-years from the Milky Way. The Andromeda lost its crew to a Magog attack and wondered around the universe blindly using its slipstream until it managed to find its way to the Milky Way galaxy in a matter of months. Slipstream is practically folding space like a wormhole if not for the inherit uncertainity in using slipstream. If the Andromeda Ascendant can travel across 66 million light-years in a matter of months wandering blind through space without a pilot(I can only imagined it may have once or twice went the opposite direction), you can imagine the long range strike capability the Commonwealth has at its disposal. This is quite the contrary for the Star Wars universe where there is virtual no interstellar travel say the Jedi mission and the two neighboring satellite galaxies which have never been visited in the movies or the extended universe. The distance between the Milky Way and the SW galaxy is unknown, but since the ships from the Commonwealth has visited the Andromeda Galaxy and there are no satellite galaxies near the Andromeda Galaxy, the SW galaxy cannot be closer than 2 million light-years.

Problem with that it requires an organic being ( or the grey matter from one, as seen when the mother ship of the AI that inhabit the intergalactic space used to access slip stream) to navigate thru slip stream an AI cannot.. So we must Assume that some one survived from the origional crew...

Slip stream is also depend on jump points.. You cannot travel directily to all points in a galaxy or galaxies...

Does any one know how far a SW vessel with a type 1 hyperdrive can travel in a month....? I like to know..

[Dead on Arrival]

A Schematic are drawings of how to BUILD somthing, If you don't know how it works prehaps putting that tritum in before the berillium results in a nuclear reation maychance?

I think schematic is too limited of a term for what I am suggesting. Let's call it a virtual three-dimensional construct with detailed analysis of all used materials to the sub-atomic level. Couple this with the use of computers to run simulations on possible interactions, and a safe construction procedure can be developed. If dealing with a completely unknown material, which is not very likely but still possible, it may take them time to synthesize it. In the case of Slipstream, the material used is defined as exotic matter, which can be either created or collected. The Empire is already quite familiar with such things, so that won't really be a stumbling block at all.

Just because you have inside and outside pictures of EVERY little system does not mean your going to be able to build it,

Why not? You seem to be under this impression the Empire isn't a galaxy spanning collective of millions of races with over twenty-five thousand years of scientific research already done. There equivalent of the modern day supercomputer should perform at ridiculous levels compared to what we can even theorize possible. If they enter all the information they can glean from the Slipstream unit, scans of energy signatures of ships both entering and exiting Slipstream, and the forcibily removed knowledge from CW personnel (so basically any relevant information pertaining to Slipstream)coupled with an already extensive scientific base I have little doubt a copy could be made to work in a relatively short time.

As for the second part about you can build one without know how it works So your telling me if I gave you the complete scematics down to the sub-atomic level you could build me a working A-Bomb?

No. First, I am not an engineer. Second, my knowledge in the required field is nowhere near sufficient to even attempt it. Third, I am limited to current computer, manufacturing, and material sciences. The Empire has the ability to play with matter and energy in ways we can only theorize about, which gives them a decided advantage when it comes to recreating captured or discovered technology. Fourth, did I ever say one person could build a Slipstream unit? Real world projects take multiple teams of people trained in various fields, the same will apply for the Empire. They also happen to have more scientists, technicians, researchers, etc than the Earth has in total population with the already stated 25,000 years of scientific knowledge to draw upon.

On a related note, are you aware that a number of college physics students were almost able to construct a nuclear weapon using there knowledge base and what they could glean off of the internet? Scary, but true.

Sure would easly be able to build me a ship, But is the ship going to work, IE did you just build the universe biggest papaerweight or did you assemble a fully funcioning ship?

That is why you run simulations in your supercomputers before you even start to consider building it, so that you know it will work when you flip the switch...though it will likely not work as you intended the first time.

Realy? They have this? News to me. Never seen Mike or anyone else use this.

World Devastator. It devours planets for resources, yet is able to construct fully functional starships complete with exotic super-dense alloys and other materials not native to most planets. While probably not direct energy into matter conversion, it would still require tranmutation of the matter into the other required materials. This same technology is found in the Construction Droids which remove old sections of Coruscant and put up new ones in there place.

Agian the being able to build fully funcitioning systems without having any clue how they work

Have you ever heard of the concept of a black box device? A fairly standard science-fiction device, usually a piece of precursor technology that is not fully understood but still used in starships, etc. Until every nuance of Slipstream was defined, that would be what it is. A device installed, which if it broke down...get another one.

Slipstream is dependant on a PILOT

Yet the Andromeda was able to navigate Slipstream without one. You are of course forgetting the Empire also has interrogated not only the captured crew, but has dissected the AIs program and has it telling them everything it knows about Slipstream and CW technology in general. If they catch the right ship, they might even have a number of engineers to help them with their efforts.

Besides the sheer fact there is a WAR going on your going to need pilots to fly said ships if you want them to get anywhere(You can get a ship into slipstream without a pilot, you can't get it where you want to go though)

Ok, well they are obviously using the captured crew to help them as test pilots. After they are completely brain-fucked, and then slaved to Vader's will of course.

And are you getting these ships from where now?

A number of older ships can be used as testbeds, mounting a Slipstream unit and a number of sensors and recording devices to monitor the effects of the test flights.

Sure you could build them into existing modles, oh BTW without know how they work oh and you have to do months of figuring out how the hell to put these things into your ships(Gotta re-do the plans)

This would be done at the same time by another team, as well as the design of new classes of ships that will specifically use Slipstream and perhaps other CW technology integrated with there existed tech.

NTM acutal building the things which still takes a month or two even in SWs NTM train the crews on how to use them and a myrid of other factors of the fact its gonna be a looong time before you have a slip stream realy force big enough to attack them

The Empire devoted enough resources to build 60% of the second Death Star in 6 months time, and this was done in secret. If the Emperor deems Slipstream important enough, how long do you really think it will take for them to have it up and running?

[Mr Bean]

You seem to like editing my post then then answering the question I did not pose but the editing makes it look so
Quote the entire thing or we can stop here and now I'm not wasting my time with somone who will slice and dice my words to there benfit

The full statment

Slipstream is dependant on a PILOT, Besides the sheer fact there is a WAR going on your going to need pilots to fly said ships if you want them to get anywhere(You can get a ship into slipstream without a pilot, you can't get it where you want to go though)

What you edited to

Slipstream is dependant on a PILOT

Sure the second sentance is not needed it could be cut to Slipstream is dependant on a PILOT, You can get a ship into slipstream without a pilot, you can't get it where you want to go though
But if you leave the third part out you destroy the meaning of the sentance


Now you assumed you would take the crew alive, thats a biggy with any Sci-Fi, sure if you get the crew alive you have a chance, but its not likley


Now onto what you said
Anything I left out I agreed with

In the case of Slipstream, the material used is defined as exotic matter, which can be either created or collected. The Empire is already quite familiar with such things, so that won't really be a stumbling block at all.

Realy? What if its a exotic material specfic to certain planet? Or mayhaps only grows on the heads of a certian bald space captian, This is Sci-Fi after all Its called exotic materal for a reason, its not just sitting around easy to get
This is possible the greatest stumbling block, not the littlest, What if its an organic type? Or rare beyond belief? Going to attack the ship supply depots evey time you run a test?
I think your understating the diffculty with this step

Why not? You seem to be under this impression the Empire isn't a galaxy spanning collective of millions of races with over twenty-five thousand years of scientific research already done.

I am not under that impression however you don't seem to understant even if you have millions of races with over 25k years of resurch behind them simple phyical factors prevent all that 25k of reasarch and races from working on this


Rest fine but one note

On a related note, are you aware that a number of college physics students were almost able to construct a nuclear weapon using there knowledge base and what they could glean off of the internet? Scary, but true.

Yes I know about that one, an atmoic weapon is easy to build now-adays,
Do you know you can order the same equipment they used at Oak Ridge Nuclear in working on Hydrogen bombs through mail order catlogs? Only a few things(Tritium, The Uranium and Pluto are gonna be hard to come by) are realy hard to get
Acutal it was Clancy who said in 1988 that any Moderatly weathy and dedcated US Citizin could build a nuclear weapon if they so chose.
As soon as they let Nuclear power planets into the private sector it became possible to build your own war-head

World Devastator. It devours planets for resources, yet is able to construct fully functional starships complete with exotic super-dense alloys and other materials not native to most planets

You know the thing that has bugged me about World Devastator acutal is which book are they mentioned in?
They are mentioned in the later Jedi Acadmy Trillogy but they are dead and gone by then, Featured in SW Rouge Squadren where you fight them, but I don't know of any other mention besides that

Oh and where did the Tech come from? Is it readly avaible? Or was the specal purpose that where used only for this and bob knows where its gotten to after they went?

Have you ever heard of the concept of a black box device? A fairly standard science-fiction device, usually a piece of precursor technology that is not fully understood but still used in starships

Don't those usaly expoled at some point or another?
Sorry besides Treck I can't think of a series in which thats used(Enders Game maybe)

You are of course forgetting the Empire also has interrogated not only the captured crew, but has dissected the AIs program and has it telling them everything it knows about Slipstream and CW technology in general. If they catch the right ship, they might even have a number of engineers to help them with their efforts.

You are of course assuming they can get a fully intact ship with crew and the AI did not erase itself or anything along those lines

Ok, well they are obviously using the captured crew to help them as test pilots. After they are completely brain-fucked, and then slaved to Vader's will

Realy Vadar can do that? News to me, After all they had Leia for what? Weeks? Months? Still never manged to learn where the secret Rebel Fortress was


From what you said you might as well give the Empire the instruction manual, First you say full untouched ship, then nice willing crew all ready to help, Oh and all the crew memebers know how to pilot so you can use them as pilots, Oh and you might have Engineers on board who could provdied information too, Oh and maybe theres a snowcone machine on board that could make icecream!
Your giving a bit much to the Empire here

[His Divine Shadow]

I dunno, I think SW's hyperdrive is more usefull than the slipstrem because:

A) For fast slipstream travel you need not just a good pilot, but also need a path thats been "ridden in", going through "virgin" territory with the slipstream will quickly remove it's plus points.

B) It doesn't correlate to realspace, it doesn't go in a straight line, so you can't calculate complex strageties and so on involving fleet movements on a stellar scale.

C) Entire star systems can be cut off somehow from Slipstream.

D) Sometimes it requires many jumps to get from point A to B, like A-HJL-B.

For intra galactic travel I'd prefer hyperdrive, even if it's slower.

[His Divine Shadow]

I doubt Commonwealth ships can even destroy SW ships of ISD class and above, I mean the CW are going to be on the offensive, almost every SW planet has sensors that reach several light years, they'd know of them at once and have plenty of time to get reinforcements and other ambush tactics, heck TL's have been shown to have ranges in the light hours in the newest NJO books, they could drop a few lightseconds away and fire a couple of salvos, by the time the enemy knows what hit 'em they are quite dead.

And DOA is right that the Empire could capture ships and dedicate entire worlds to picking them apart.
Though I think the CW has an huge STL acceleration advantage.

[Patrick Ogaard]

NTM Fighters

ISD-IIs carry what? 144?

The Andromda carrys what a full squad? 12 plus backups?
I acutal don't know, does anyone know the specfici fighter makeup of a Highguard ship?(number, size, type, ect)

http://www.allsystems.org/engineering/xmc.shtml

The above URL should take you directly to the specs for the Glorious Heritage Class heavy cruiser.

According to the stats, a fully stocked cruiser should have on board 76 Shrike slipfighters, very roughly equivalent to, say, a Y-Wing. There should also be 36 Centaur tactical slipfighters, just as roughly equivalent to an X-Wing. Then there are 12 Phoenix atmospheric fighters to support planetside operations, plus a slew of assorted drones, a pair of really big planetary combat robots, and possibly a few dropships.


One question that has yet to be answered, or even speculated on, is how Stormtroopers and Imperial Army forces would stack up against Lancers.

[Darth_Shinji]

I have not watch too much andromda. Bu I have a question about slipstream. Is there specfic points of entry into slipstream? The empire could in such a situation make defensive forts or maintain fleets around such points of entry.

[Mr Bean]

No specfic points however Slipstream is not a strait line

If you want to go from A to B you might need D C and E before getting to B in some cases
In others you can go from A to B with ease

Slipstream seems very varbile dependant on how and where you can go
IE Pilot, Ship, Number of people on board, Does it have drinks onboard
exc...

[His Divine Shadow]

One question that has yet to be answered, or even speculated on, is how Stormtroopers and Imperial Army forces would stack up against Lancers.

That I think is hard indeed, the weaponry of the Lancers, smart bullets, seems superior in accuracy, and they can even intercept physical artillery charges.

Now I think that heavy ECM jamming will negate the semi homing feature of smart bullets on major battlefields, I am also not sure as to how good they are at piercing stormie armor, looking at them impacting on humans I am not sure of their efficency...

[Darth_Shinji]

No specfic points however Slipstream is not a strait line

If you want to go from A to B you might need D C and E before getting to B in some cases
In others you can go from A to B with ease

Slipstream seems very varbile dependant on how and where you can go
IE Pilot, Ship, Number of people on board, Does it have drinks onboard
exc...

Thanks.

[Patrick Ogaard]

I have not watch too much andromda. Bu I have a question about slipstream. Is there specfic points of entry into slipstream? The empire could in such a situation make defensive forts or maintain fleets around such points of entry.

There do seem to be broadly defined entry points, more or less a general area within which a ship can expect to exit and should be able to enter slipstream. I certainly recall several references to such jump points, though it might also be a matter of vessels sticking to well-trodden paths and therefore trying to use established slipstream entry/exit zones.

Considering the STL speeds available to military vessels, which are supposed to max out at about .5 C for warships and .75 C for fighters, it would require incredibly huge ready forces to protect a planetary system unless at least the general direction is known from which attacks are likely to take place.

Also, opening a slipstream portal too close to a planet can cause damage on a planetary scale, with earthquakes, volcanic eruptions and the whole nine yards. Which begs the question: why bother with nova bombs if a slipfighter squadron could just jump into a system, race for the target planet, jump to slipstream in close orbit, and render the planet uninhabitable?

Patrolling the likeliest jump points would certainly be feasible, at worst forcing the Commonwealth or Nietzschean Alliance forces to attempt slipstream transits to more difficult exit points. Even a squadron of Imperial customs frigates would likely prove stiff opposition to anything less than a major action by capital ships.

[His Divine Shadow]

Considering the STL speeds available to military vessels, which are supposed to max out at about .5 C for warships and .75 C for fighters, it would require incredibly huge ready forces to protect a planetary system unless at least the general direction is known from which attacks are likely to take place.

Even if they jump a few light minutes away thats how long the SW forces has to prepair, ambushing SW forces will be hard, what will be harder is if the SW forces decide to jam only STL sensors and comms, then they could have working unhindered sensors compared to the other side wich doesn't have them.

Also, opening a slipstream portal too close to a planet can cause damage on a planetary scale, with earthquakes, volcanic eruptions and the whole nine yards. Which begs the question: why bother with nova bombs if a slipfighter squadron could just jump into a system, race for the target planet, jump to slipstream in close orbit, and render the planet uninhabitable?

Possible tactic yes, but is that true when they jump in or is only when they jump out?
And I am not sure how it would work with a planetary shield.

[Patrick Ogaard]

One question that has yet to be answered, or even speculated on, is how Stormtroopers and Imperial Army forces would stack up against Lancers.

That I think is hard indeed, the weaponry of the Lancers, smart bullets, seems superior in accuracy, and they can even intercept physical artillery charges.

Now I think that heavy ECM jamming will negate the semi homing feature of smart bullets on major battlefields, I am also not sure as to how good they are at piercing stormie armor, looking at them impacting on humans I am not sure of their efficency...

Those would be exactly my questions.

In terms of individual gear, Lancer equipment is basically a force lance, partial body armor and liberal doses of internally carried nanobots as countermeasures and emergency medical support.

Stormtrooper individual gear is basically a blaster and body armor with full coverage.

The Lancer has a polyvalent weapons system in the form of the force lance, a device capable of use as: a quarterstaff in close combat, a high powered gauss gun firing smart bullets with various effects (effectors), a plasma projector, an electric shock prod/stunner, and a plasma grenade as a last ditch defensive option that destroys the lance. The only two uses likely to be fully effective against stormtrooper armor would be the quarterstaff at close quarters and the plasma projector option at longer ranges. If the effectors could be set to seek out the gaps between the armor plates, effectors might prove effective against Imperial-issue body armor. On the other hand, metal refrigerator doors are decent protection against effectors, and Imperial-issue body armor plates are considerably tougher than refrigerator doors. I will, however, grant that it may be possible to seriously ramp up the velocity of an effector to achieve decent armor penetration.

The Stormtrooper's has a single-use weapons system in the form of a personal blaster carbine/sidearm or heavy blaster rifle: it is capable of a rate of fire comparable to the force lance, its antipersonnel effects are comparable to the force lance effectors with an added explosive area effect (or much greater for the heavy blaster rifle), and only vehicular armor or shielding are strong enough to stop a direct hit. Since the plasma bolt has no terminal guidance, it is completely unaffected by the ECM the Lancers use for defense, and the physical resistance of the Lancer cuirass is unlikely to be comparable or superior to the panoply of one of the Empire's finest.

I would assume, somewhat dangerously, that the sealed armor of the Stormtrooper and the defensive nanobots of a Lancer would be roughly equivalent in terms of providing protection against most nerve agents, bio agents, attack nanobots or the like. I do not believe that a Lancer in anything short of a fully sealed suit is going to be able to walk through a theater shield the way a Stormtrooper could.

Open field ground combat would likely come down to a comparison of the heavy weapons systems available to the two sides: the artillery barrages of Lancer dropships are unlikely to seriously impress large Stormtrooper formations in their largely fragment-proof armor, while their Anti-Proton cannon could well compete with the heavy guns of AT-ATs. On the whole, I think I would have to give the advantage to Imperial forces, based both on numbers and sheer firepower. Planetary combat robots and orbital bombardments by 1-kilogram missiles might provide the occasional Commonwealth victory, but the Empire has war machines at least equal to planetary combat robots, and the Lancers' support forces would have to control orbital approaches to be able to drop missiles on the enemy.

The Commonwealth would definitely make a better fight of it than the ground forces of the UFP, Klingon or Romulan Empires, Borg Collective or Dominion. The Commonwealth would still likely lose in the end, but they might be able to achieve a negotiated peace, whereas the others would likely achieve nothing better than a negotiated unconditional surrender.

[Patrick Ogaard]

Considering the STL speeds available to military vessels, which are supposed to max out at about .5 C for warships and .75 C for fighters, it would require incredibly huge ready forces to protect a planetary system unless at least the general direction is known from which attacks are likely to take place.

Even if they jump a few light minutes away thats how long the SW forces has to prepair, ambushing SW forces will be hard, what will be harder is if the SW forces decide to jam only STL sensors and comms, then they could have working unhindered sensors compared to the other side wich doesn't have them.

Also, opening a slipstream portal too close to a planet can cause damage on a planetary scale, with earthquakes, volcanic eruptions and the whole nine yards. Which begs the question: why bother with nova bombs if a slipfighter squadron could just jump into a system, race for the target planet, jump to slipstream in close orbit, and render the planet uninhabitable?

Possible tactic yes, but is that true when they jump in or is only when they jump out?
And I am not sure how it would work with a planetary shield.

Well ...

I fully agree with you on the matter of SW vessels and their FTL sensors being able to foil many Commonwealth attacks before they even happen. SW vessels have incredible acceleration, certainly equal to that available to Commonwealth ships; the slow SW tactical speeds seem based primarily on ships in a heavy jamming environment needing to rely strongly on optical targeting and collision avoidance systems. FTL sensors combined with high achievable speeds allow the Empire defenders to effectively concentrate their forces and so achieve local superiority of forces.


Apparently the slipstream attack on a planet only works when entering slipstream, not when exiting. That's why the fighter attack I suggested as a possible option essentially consisted of the fighters flying close to the planet and then entering slipstream. A planetary shield would, I expect, largely insulate a planet from such an effect, making it useless against major Imperial worlds.

[omegaLancer]

The fact that CW span 3 (6) galaxy does not necessary mean that it slip technology is any better than the Hyperdrive unit of the empire.. Wong showed on his writting on hyperdrive that the MF travel a 40,000 light year trip in 7 hours, and that would require speeds of roughly fifty million times c.

As we know part of this has to do with topology of the space between the two target systems.. Between galaies spacial conditions should allow a higher rate of travel.. even if we travel at the rate of 40000 light year per 7 hours, in less than a month an imperial ship could reach tranverse the distant between the Milky way and the Andromeda...Double the rate and it is doable in 2 weeks..

The major factor may have been the fact that galaxies are large places, and with large region of their galaxy unexplored the empire never choose to launch an expenditure to a near by galaxy... The republic did, but since they never heard from the Jedi that went, they may have assume that worse and never mounted another effort..

Just look at the 15th Century Chinese, they had mult deck, 8 masted, sailing ship, that explored most of china sea and india ocean ( and some believe reach the west coast of america), but after exploring the coast of africa they stop, figuring that there was nothing worth the effort of exploring further..

At about the same time in less technology advance vessels the european launch ships to the new world and eventually around the coast of africa to trade with the Asia.

The fact is that without FTL sensor the CW would have a difficult time mapping out the empire.. While the minute a imperial vessel reaches another galaxy it can use Imperial Probe droids to check out thousands of systems and transmit the information to a central command ship..

Info is the key in this struggle, The CW would be working blind while the Empire could gather information at a vast rate...

Nova bomb aside ( The empire has the sun crusher and would rush to produce 100 of such ships the minute the cw use theirs) The struggle would be an enjoyable one to watch since unlike the federation the CW has a miltary tradtion, including ground forces...

[Typhonis 1]

Here is an intersting thought that no one has mentioned yet.What would the SUPPLY situation be for the Commonwealth ?I mean the Empire is using an established supply grid in case they are defending home territory.The Commonwealth ill need to bring supplies with them which can lead to the case where they end up like Rommel ,though it is a posibility .Where the Empire intercepts and blows appart most of there supply ships after all an Army or Navy even a Space Navy travel on its stomach

[omegaLancer]

Since from my eariler post, I showed that it is possible for SW vessels to reach another nearby galaxies, what if both CW and the Empire meets at galaxy that neither control, and they begin a war over who would control it as a source of future colonization..

Both would need to bring along supplies and map out travel routes and planetary systems that would be of military important..

As it work out, systems that are major slip stream point also turn out to be on hyperspace corridors, that allow for max speed for imperial ship ( a Fluke of the hyperspacial topology)

This way they would both battle on an even playing field...

[Shrykull]

What was it that other ship they encountered in Andromeda (the gold one) used to destroy that planet in Andromeda, when they found the ship and that it had been sitting there for 300 years just like Dylan was at the black hole. It refused an order and destroyed the planet somehow.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

What are the heavy ground weapons of the Lancers?




And what about ground vehicles? All I remember is a mech. It's weapons were purely anti-personnel, at its accuracy not great.

[Mr Bean]

You never know
(Makes note to watch more, its a decent show though the some of the weapons have Trecky WTF issues on use )

[omegaLancer]

Well not only do they have mech, they also possess tanks/armour units... In Episode "bunker hill" an uprising was plan to draw the Neitchzen Armor on to the street for the Andromeda to bomb from orbit...

[Crossover_Maniac]

1. It's called "scouting".

Which given the limits of their sensor technology will take them days to adequately search a single system with one ship, such is the limitations of being limited to c-based sensor systems. During which time, they will be detected by someone, and when they vanish using a non-Hyperspace mode of FTL they will be reported. Patrols will be alerted, and these scouts will be tracked so that there intentions can be ascertained. If they simply scout without announcing themselves, they will be presumed hostile and the Empire will react accordingly.

The US is launching the next generation of space telescopes in 2005 that will not only detect Earth-like planets in other solar systems, but also tell what their atmospheres are composed of (oxygen is an indicator of life since it doesn't exist in its diatomic form since it's highly reactive without biological processes replenishing it) within a hundred light-years from Earth. So, we have proof that even light speed sensors can detect habitable planets from long distances away. CW ships don't have to travel to every star system in the galaxy for its scouting mission.

Incidentally, the speed of Slipstream is determined by the skill of the pilot and the quality of the 'path' from the system you are in to the one you wish to go. There are no such 'paths' in the SW galaxy, and all Slipstream travel will be signifantly slower than normal...with speeds comparable to SW Hyperdrive. Scouting out the SW galaxy fully will take months/years, and that is being overly-generous to the CW scouts.

It must tears you up inside for SW to lose its speed advantage. If the SW galaxy and CW galaxy is in the same universe, the paths will be there. Slipstream pilots have successfully traveled to star systems that they have never been before without being delayed to months/years in their journey.

2. The commonwealth was probably not renowned for using Nova Bombs for the same reason that the United States does not nuke every enemy they have. The use of such weapons usually forces your opponent to retaliate with weapons of equal destructive force. In this case, if both sides are using planet busting weapons at every engagement, there isn't going to be much of a galaxy left.

Considering the Empire can't actually engage any CW held system (until they acquire and reverse-engineer a Slipstream drive), unless there is some type of wormhole that connects the SW galaxy with the region of the universe in which Andromeda takes place they will not be blowing up any planets.

I thought we agree in the ST vs. SW debates reverse engineering of completely different technologies isn't possible.

However, sine the Empire cannot arm everyone of its vessels with planet destroying weapons, and the Common Wealth can, the Common Wealth can simply drop into a system, fire a nova bomb, jump out of the system, and proceed to the next.

While they technically could equip every ship with Nova Bombs, they may not have the necessary resources to build that many in the first place. I am aware that they require an extremely rare material, which might mean they cannot make the necessary millions of Nova Bombs to destroy every system controlled by the Empire.

They armed their fighter crafts with Nova Bombs. That should be an indicator to you that Nova Bombs production is not that limited. Dylans' ship was armed with forty. The High Guard has 100,000 ships, that's 4,000,000 nova bombs right there not to mention the nova bombs stored on High Guard bases like the ones in "To Loose the Fateful Lightning".

The Empire could be facing extinction before the day is over!

Why weren't the Nietchzean home systems destroyed by Nova Bombs if the CW will so willingly commit genocide on a galactic scale? I have a hard time believing they will kill trillion upon trillion of sentient beings, instead of attempting to conquer the Empire and usurping control of those worlds.

Just because the US never used nuclear weapons after WWII doesn't mean we wouldn't if we were pushed into a corner. The CW will try to defeat the Empire in a conventional war, but if it looks like they can't, odds are, they'll Nova Bomb enough systems to force a surrender just like the US did to Japan in WWII. As for the Nietchzeans, remember, they launched a surprise attack on the Commonwealth. After the attack, the High Guard was just trying to hold their own against both the Nietchzeans and the Magog before falling to this two front assault.