Metal Gear Solid 4 (With spoilers!)

[Ghost Rider]

The reason of the title is that people are going to get spoiled or have already been, and I feel the ability to blurt it out should be there.

So for those who aren't spoiled out the wazoo, what do you hope to happen in this final part in both terms of gameplay and story?

For those who are spoiled out the ass? What do you think?

I am honestly hoping for at least more open gameplay. The atmosphere of the game at least appears to not be tight corridors leading to tighter corridors. More open gunplay, with stealth being a way to get into better positions hopes to be nice. As for boss battles, I am hoping less one shot gimmicks of chosing one ultra special weapon and more a test of skill.

Storywise? I won't go into it, it...really made me wonder what the fuck. But that's really never been a primary reason why I played a game. Honestly, the ending had me laughing in the wrong way.

[Vympel]

Just riddle me this? Does Solid Snake stay old and die? Because I was really hoping they'd pull off some writer's fiat and revert him back to the age he should be.

[Ford Prefect]

Just riddle me this? Does Solid Snake stay old and die? Because I was really hoping they'd pull off some writer's fiat and revert him back to the age he should be.

I still don't get why you have a problem with playing as Sean Connery, man.

[Resinence]

Just riddle me this? Does Solid Snake stay old and die? Because I was really hoping they'd pull off some writer's fiat and revert him back to the age he should be.

Though there is already a spoiler tag...

[MASSIVE FUCK-OFF ENDING SPOILER]

Snake and Ocelot have one final battle(think Liquid and Snake on top of MG Rex in MGS1). Ocelot reveals that he is Liquids doppleganger, and then dies from Snake's Foxdie. Ocelot wanted to destroy the Patriots, as that was his secret motive. Snake then goes into the graveyard scene where he attemps to kill himself, but Big Boss (who didn't actually die originally, he was frozen) comes out and tells him to live the rest of his life, which is only a couple of months, and then dies from foxdie. Raiden reunites with Rose and their son and Meryl has her wedding with Johnny. Image=http://i28.tinypic.com/dmxhcp.jpg

Worst. Ending. Ever. Fuck you Kojima.

[Stark]

Wow, that's terrible.

Still, who expected more? The whole MGS storyline is bogus in the extreme, for all the awesome stuff that's in it.

[Vympel]

Wow, that's terrible.

Still, who expected more? The whole MGS storyline is bogus in the extreme, for all the awesome stuff that's in it.

Indeed. The whole has always been less than its individual parts. I always liked the plot of MGS and MGS 3, though. Not nearly as pretentious as MGS 2.

Personally I can't believe anyone's finished it yet. It only comes out on Jun 12 here. MGS has always been short, but damn, the cutscenes alone should pad it out to the weekend

[Vympel]

Worst. Ending. Ever. Fuck you Kojima.

Is that it? Nothing at the end of the credits?

You know that's not so bad. It's almost hardly pretentious at all.

[Stark]

Maybe Kojima will retire so people can make INTERESTING games about giant robots and superhuman clones and magic powers?

[Resinence]

There is a voiceover thing after the credits like all of the previous games, which explains it in a lot more detail. I'm not going to type it all out but I'm fairly sure you can find it on the net somewhere. But yeah.

Thats how Metal Gear Solid ends. Apparently there will be more metal gear games, but the MGS series is over.

EDIT: And they couldn't continue it really anyway since [size=0]basically everyone else dies as well, except a certain feminine soldier everyone hates (but who becomes badass in MGS4) and a few others, it really goes into the whole PATRIOTS VS OUTER HEAVEN, it could have been a worse ending for sure.[/size]

[Stark]

The voiceover thing was always so hilarious. It's a great big sign saying 'yes we know we can't tell an intelligible story to save our ass, so we'll just TELL you now'.

[PeZook]

The voiceover thing was always so hilarious. It's a great big sign saying 'yes we know we can't tell an intelligible story to save our ass, so we'll just TELL you now'.

I find most storytelling from Japanese writers to be...hard to follow.

I don't know if it's just a cultural thing, or I just happen to keep running into the few horribly written Japanese games/shows.

What's worse is that they often get rave reviews from various people. Metal Gear is one thing, Ergo Proxy (the anime) is another. Oh, you named your characters after philosophers? So deep, man! Plot holes? What do you mean "plot holes"? What are they?

[CaptHawkeye]

I tried out MGS3 and hated every minute of it mostly because of the agonizing linearity. Is MGS4 going to be less-so? Because corridor strolling doesn't sit well with me.

[Vympel]

I don't care about linearity - the MGS games have never been freeform, and I find MGS 3 to be the least linear, gameplay wise, simply because there were so many more places to hide.

The IGN review of MGS 4 is bizarre - they talk more about its flaws than its positives, yet still give it a rave review. Heck, they even say that with all the guns and what not the stealth aspect is greatly reduced.

Anyway I'm not kidding anyone, I'm definitely getting MGS 4 when it comes out because I've always liked the series, even though it's terribly wanting in so many areas, it's still fun to play / watch.

What's worse is that they often get rave reviews from various people. Metal Gear is one thing, Ergo Proxy (the anime) is another. Oh, you named your characters after philosophers? So deep, man! Plot holes? What do you mean "plot holes"? What are they?

I still remember patiently trying to explain to someone on SB.com that Liquid Snake shooting down two F-16s in an Mi-24D wasn't an example of his being a badass, but quite possibly the greatest act of (F-16) pilot incompetence in the history of aerial warfare.

[PeZook]

I still remember patiently trying to explain to someone on SB.com that Liquid Snake shooting down two F-16s in an Mi-24D wasn't an example of his being a badass, but quite possibly the greatest act of (F-16) pilot incompetence in the history of aerial warfare.

I got the distinct impression that MGS writers liked to play with characters and symbolism and philosophy so much that they actually forgot to write a tight plot around it all, and just used the technothriller setting as an excuse to move from one character revelation to the next.

[Battlehymn Republic]

What did everyone expect? The Matrix, Pirates of the Caribbean... every franchise that presumes to be stylish and high concept ends in tears of plot stupidity. Just wait until the BSG finale, not to mention the final season of Lost.

Seriously, has there ever been a series with a bizarre, twisting, deep plot set in an over-the-top awesome universe that wrapped up its story nicely? NGE? The Dark Tower?

I didn't think so.

[Stark]

The IGN review of MGS 4 is bizarre - they talk more about its flaws than its positives, yet still give it a rave review. Heck, they even say that with all the guns and what not the stealth aspect is greatly reduced.

That's really the issue, and as mentioned it was true of GTA4 as well. Magical, nerd-fellating ratings (to be 'cool' and stay in the nerdsphere) but review text that paints a quite different picture. I mean, let's not mince words, I think MGS games suck shit and having seen the hilariously overblown and absurd cutscenes, I have no interest in this game whatsoever. But when you've got a totally different standard for the 'rating' section and the actual review text, it's like you're trying to help me show people why aggregate sites are totally useless.

Okay, MGS1 was okay. The very start of MGS2 was good. Making 8-bit games in the 21st century is okay in principle.

[Drooling Iguana]

Just riddle me this? Does Solid Snake stay old and die? Because I was really hoping they'd pull off some writer's fiat and revert him back to the age he should be.

Though there is already a spoiler tag...

[MASSIVE FUCK-OFF ENDING SPOILER]

Snake and Ocelot have one final battle(think Liquid and Snake on top of MG Rex in MGS1). Ocelot reveals that he is Liquids doppleganger, and then dies from Snake's Foxdie. Ocelot wanted to destroy the Patriots, as that was his secret motive. Snake then goes into the graveyard scene where he attemps to kill himself, but Big Boss (who didn't actually die originally, he was frozen) comes out and tells him to live the rest of his life, which is only a couple of months, and then dies from foxdie. Raiden reunites with Rose and their son and Meryl has her wedding with Johnny. Image=http://i28.tinypic.com/dmxhcp.jpg

Worst. Ending. Ever. Fuck you Kojima.

How the hell could Big Boss have been froxen? I killed him with flaming hairspray!

[Andrew_Fireborn]

Well, to start with, if you didn't already hate Otacon, you will desire his messy death by the start of mission three. (For the as yet uninformed, the game is broken into a series of shorter missions set in a number of locations around the world.) He's gotten whinier and now talks over the action in a number of places with Captian Obvious style reminders...

Not to mention the speech he gives on how the Gekko's aren't technically metal gears, and then promptly introduces you to his toy fail-bot Metal Gear Mrk2. (The robot is actually quite useful, but it's design is terrible, and often does fall over in cutscenes...)

I've only gotten as far as the third mission... So I can't comment on the story too much, or much else. But there seems to be about 2 or 3 times as much cinematic in this game as the prior installments... This wouldn't be terrible, but most of that extra cutscene is padding and awkward characterization. (As opposed to some sort of real plot advancement, or even silly, overblown action.)

The controls are about the same, honestly. Maybe a little tighter. The one major change is something that should have been in MGS2, when dual sticks had long since been standard equipment. And that is the shift to standard FPS controls when aiming your weapons. (Hell, it NEEDED to be in MGS3 with it's version of MGO in Subsistance...)

The graphics are impressive, but I dunno, I'm not terribly impressed with them in action.

I haven't seen any slowdown, which I have seen other games chug even the PS3 with slip shod coding...

[Jack_Ryan]

Damn... Otacon...

Is it just me or have alot of games lately been overhyped?
Halo 3 was supposed to be outstanding and it's just Halo 2 with forge and films.

GTA IV was supposed to be the second coming, but falls so short.

[Stark]

Damn... Otacon...

Is it just me or have alot of games lately been overhyped?
Halo 3 was supposed to be outstanding and it's just Halo 2 with forge and films.

GTA IV was supposed to be the second coming, but falls so short.

Since it's impossible to live up to 10/10 and 100% ratings, yeah I think they might have been a tiny tiny bit overhyped.

[chitoryu12]

Damn... Otacon...

Is it just me or have alot of games lately been overhyped?
Halo 3 was supposed to be outstanding and it's just Halo 2 with forge and films.

GTA IV was supposed to be the second coming, but falls so short.

At least with GTA IV they tried something different. When they've figured out what works and what doesn't, it'll be much better. They've figured out that you can't just slightly update the engine and gameplay, which Bungie and, to a lesser degree, Kojima, still need to work on.

[PeZook]

Damn... Otacon...

Is it just me or have alot of games lately been overhyped?
Halo 3 was supposed to be outstanding and it's just Halo 2 with forge and films.

GTA IV was supposed to be the second coming, but falls so short.

That's because gaming company execs have figured out that you can advertise a game just like any other product, but not the First Rule of Marketing: Before you do anything else, make sure that you really do have a good product.

[The Kernel]

So I just finished playing MGS4 and I have a few observations...

1) Graphics were amazing. Not from a sheer beauty level like Crysis (although there was some of that certainly), but mostly because of the quality of the animation and action on screen. Dozens of people engaged in combat was handled flawlessly; a lot of love went into the motion capture and it shows.

2) The story, while not nearly as tight and interesting as Snake Eater, wrapped up a lot of the craziness of MGS2 quite well. I didn't feel for the characters nearly as much as Eva, Adam/Ocelot, Boss and Naked Snake, but it was still well done for the most part.

3) Sunny pissed me off. What the hell was this character doing in the game?

4) Although the overarching story was interesting about the AI cluster, the neverending war economy, pulling back the curtain to find the shell of Zero, etc, the ins and outs were really strange to say the least. Why have Ocelot pretend to be Liquid? Why did Naomi behave the way she did? What was Vamp's agenda? Why was Big Boss sitting around in a hospital waiting to be awakened?

All of these things are explained using overly convoluted reasoning which assumes that the grand architect for this master plan was a grade A moron. Surely there were easier ways for the former Patriots Eva, Ocelot and Solidus to take down the AI's than the plan they formulated. If they came up with a virus that could spread from GW, why didn't they just upload it to begin with? Why go through all the bullshit? Why do ANY of this?

5) Someone else got Snake's girl. That pisses me off.

6) How the hell did Big Boss survive and what the hell has he been doing for the last 20 years since Zanzibar? Why didn't Eva revive him before this?

7) Raiden was fine as a character, although his purpose in the game seemed rather superfluous and I'm not sure at all what he or Rosemary added.

Wow Otacon, your life sucks donkey balls. Not only did you come down with a serious case of Stockholm Syndrome and fall in love with your stepsister after banging your stepmother, you have had the last three women you had the hots for die rather suddenly.

9) Speaking of Naomi's death, why the fuck did she kill herself? Suddenly the nanomachines she spent her whole life researching are evil? Stopping her cancer from killing her is somehow immoral? Give me a fucking break.

10) Dreben, you aren't interesting or cool.

11) Dreben's monkey, you are mildly amusing. Suggest that when MGS4 "Supersistance" is released a bonus scene of you killing your master with one of the guns he sold to African militias to murder children would be both hilarious and ironic.

12) The weapons available in the game are just fantastic. I actually want to play through the game again just to experiment with some different guns, especially in Act I.

13) The fight between Metal Gear Rex and Ray was FUCKING BADASS. I don't give a flying fuck how unrealistic Metal Gear are, this boss battle was BRILLIANT.

14) Mei Ling has a really nice ass. The one redeeming thing that Johnny/Akiba brought to the game was trying to give it a squeeze. A pity Meryl cockblocked him like that...

15) Speaking of Meryl and Akiba...yeah sure, you guys gunned down 40+ super soldiers armed with P90's from bad cover with nothing but a 50 caliber sniper rifle, and a couple of pistols. Totally believable.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Awesome game. I'm glad everything is finally wrapped up, the gameplay was the best yet and I can't think of many movies that offer that much entertainment and polish in production values. A brilliant end to the series, which makes me happy and sad at the same time. I'm glad they didn't go out and milk it, like some EA whore and that we finally get closure, but on the other hand, if they kept remaking the series over and over with little tweaks, I'd still buy the damn things.

So I just finished playing MGS4 and I have a few observations...

1) Graphics were amazing. Not from a sheer beauty level like Crysis (although there was some of that certainly), but mostly because of the quality of the animation and action on screen. Dozens of people engaged in combat was handled flawlessly; a lot of love went into the motion capture and it shows.

The polish and attention to detail. That's what Kojima is all about.

2) The story, while not nearly as tight and interesting as Snake Eater, wrapped up a lot of the craziness of MGS2 quite well. I didn't feel for the characters nearly as much as Eva, Adam/Ocelot, Boss and Naked Snake, but it was still well done for the most part.

I find MGS3 is quite a unique one, along with MGS itself. While they are still part of one main plot, they can stand on their own very well and are quite self-contained. Plus, MGS3 is just so different to the others, but not in a way that pissed fans off like replacing Snake with Raiden.

3) Sunny pissed me off. What the hell was this character doing in the game?

She kind of saved the day, dontchaknow?

4) Although the overarching story was interesting about the AI cluster, the neverending war economy, pulling back the curtain to find the shell of Zero, etc, the ins and outs were really strange to say the least. Why have Ocelot pretend to be Liquid? Why did Naomi behave the way she did? What was Vamp's agenda? Why was Big Boss sitting around in a hospital waiting to be awakened?

All of these things are explained using overly convoluted reasoning which assumes that the grand architect for this master plan was a grade A moron. Surely there were easier ways for the former Patriots Eva, Ocelot and Solidus to take down the AI's than the plan they formulated. If they came up with a virus that could spread from GW, why didn't they just upload it to begin with? Why go through all the bullshit? Why do ANY of this?

Play the game again. You must've missed something (read: all the plot). If it was just as easy as "Oh, hey Zero. Mind if I stick this floppy disk into your AIs and erase them before they control us?", I'm sure they would have done.

5) Someone else got Snake's girl. That pisses me off.

Snake has always been the unfortunate anti-hero. That this happened is not surprising, especially since Snake was potentially a walking WMD and going to die very soon anyway.

6) How the hell did Big Boss survive and what the hell has he been doing for the last 20 years since Zanzibar? Why didn't Eva revive him before this?

Been hiding away, trying to help out with the plan to take down the Patriots eventually. It took until Shadow Moses to set things in action. If I were him, I'd be keeping a low profile since pretty much the entire world would be after you. As for why Eva didn't revive him before, it's unclear.

7) Raiden was fine as a character, although his purpose in the game seemed rather superfluous and I'm not sure at all what he or Rosemary added.

Closure to their characters, perhaps? If they'd just left them out, that would be another question in your list. It's nice to actually know what happened to someone who rode a giant fucking submarine into Manhattan and killed the president.

8 ) Wow Otacon, your life sucks donkey balls. Not only did you come down with a serious case of Stockholm Syndrome and fall in love with your stepsister after banging your stepmother, you have had the last three women you had the hots for die rather suddenly.

True. On the plus side, he did bang Naomi. And that has got to be worth something, even if his otaku personality needed her to physically grab him to drop the hint.

9) Speaking of Naomi's death, why the fuck did she kill herself? Suddenly the nanomachines she spent her whole life researching are evil? Stopping her cancer from killing her is somehow immoral? Give me a fucking break.

Guilt.

10) Dreben, you aren't interesting or cool.

So you say, though I found his insights to be useful along with the weapons. And he has a monkey in a custom Stryker. Do you have a monkey and a custom Stryker?

11) Dreben's monkey, you are mildly amusing. Suggest that when MGS4 "Supersistance" is released a bonus scene of you killing your master with one of the guns he sold to African militias to murder children would be both hilarious and ironic.

Or, for added irony, a Narc can and a fag. Andy Serkis should do the motion capture too.

12) The weapons available in the game are just fantastic. I actually want to play through the game again just to experiment with some different guns, especially in Act I.

Fuckin' A. There are more weapons and equipment in this than any FPS you can get. I knew from the start that I'd complete the game without really getting to use half of them, so I'm going to definitely make use of Drebin more in the harder replays and MGO.

13) The fight between Metal Gear Rex and Ray was FUCKING BADASS. I don't give a flying fuck how unrealistic Metal Gear are, this boss battle was BRILLIANT.

Indeed. Something I have long since wanted to do after MGS was pilot REX (and play as Cyborg Ninja which we sort of got, albeit, too short) and see RAY get fighting. Although I can't help but think RAY, a machine designed for amphibious assault and specifically to take out REX knock-offs, was beaten too easily by the original REX that was not only sitting in a hangar for nine years, but had the shit beaten out of it, an open cockpit, no radome and piloted by a guy with no real experience in the system.

I presume they took the tail off the RAY prototype to avoid sucking up loads of CPU time with its movement (and maybe Liquid wanted rid of it for his needs or whatever).

14) Mei Ling has a really nice ass. The one redeeming thing that Johnny/Akiba brought to the game was trying to give it a squeeze. A pity Meryl cockblocked him like that...

I expect the secret peeper game no doubt stuck in somewhere will get a lot of use given how fine the laydees are in the MGS-verse.

15) Speaking of Meryl and Akiba...yeah sure, you guys gunned down 40+ super soldiers armed with P90's from bad cover with nothing but a 50 caliber sniper rifle, and a couple of pistols. Totally believable.

I hear total realism is the order of the day in MGS. Psychic soldiers, walking nuclear tanks and the Illuminati-cum-AI network gone wrong is almost Tom Clancy material.

EDIT: Also, Harry Gregson-Williams once again proves how much of a fucking god he is when it comes to composing music. The track "Metal Gear Saga" that plays as you start the final fight with Liquid Ocelot brought a tear to my eye.

[The Kernel]

Play the game again. You must've missed something (read: all the plot). If it was just as easy as "Oh, hey Zero. Mind if I stick this floppy disk into your AIs and erase them before they control us?", I'm sure they would have done.

That's circular logic. You are saying that because they did what they did it MUST have been the only way to achieve their goal which doesn't make any sense. Once they had physical control of GW (which they did back in MGS2) they should have been able to knock out the AI cluster with zero issues.