McCain and the VA

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Lonestar
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McCain and the VA

Post by Lonestar »

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Sunday, June 08, 2008
Why is McCain getting $58,000 a year in disability income?
John Aravosis (DC) · 6/08/2008 12:07:00 PM ET

First off, I find it fascinating that John McCain, who is refusing to vote for the GI Bill for our troops because "it's too generous," is himself getting $58,000 a year, tax-free, from the US government for his military service. Had McCain been getting that amount every year since Vietnam, that would total $2,000,000 for the man who isn't into overgenerous government. I just find that interesting.

His staff responded with the classic "he was tortured for his country." Yeah, we get it. The torture card. It's to McCain what 9/11 was to Giuliani's candidacy - the never-ending name-drop. Though what McCain's staff actually said was downright, um, we're being nice to Clinton now, so I won't say Clintonian. Here's the quote:

McCain campaign strategist Mark Salter said Monday night that McCain was technically disabled. "Tortured for his country -- that is how he acquired his disability," Salter said.

Technically? What does that mean? Usually, it means that under the strict reading of the law, you're covered, but in fact it's kind of a nudge-nudge-wink-wink situation - that's what "technically" means. It's called parsing, which is something you do to "technically" claim something is true, when on its face it really isn't. So is McCain "technically" disabled, and taking $58,000 a year tax free from the government, or is he actually disabled? I would imagine there are other solders who are actually disabled who could use the money. And if he is actually disabled, just how disabled is he?

I think our troops should only get the best, and we've beaten up the administration a lot for leaving our injured troops and vets in the lurch. But I also remember from those articles how hard it is for our current injured troops to get the health care they need (the military is actually refusing to diagnose PTSD in order to save money on benefits!). I'm just not sure that the McCains, who own "eight or nine houses," should be getting $58k a year tax-free from the government for a "technical" disability when others who don't have families worth a gazillion dollars could use that support a lot more. The median household income in the US in 2006 was $48,201. I know vets who have done well for themselves in the workplace and, as a result, refuse to take any federal medical benefits. They feel it would simply be wrong to take what amounts to federal welfare when they're rich.

I mean, the man built his own lake to go fishing at one of his 8 or 9 houses. Yes, he served his country. But something is wrong when we're paying millionaires $58,000 a year, especially when those same millionaires complaine that we were being "overly-generous" to our troops currently fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan. At the very least, it's terribly hypocritical.

PS Let's not forget that the Republicans decided that the last election should be about whether a Vietnam war hero, who was awarded the Purple Heart, really was injured enough to get those medals. Imagine what the Republicans would have done had the Democratic candidate been profiting to the tune of $58,000 a year from the feds for a "disability" that didn't stop him from staying in the military another eight years, where he took over the command of a training squadron, and which didn't stop him from later getting elected to the US Congress for 26 years. Yes, you can be disabled and do all that, but again, imagine had the Democratic candidate had the vigor of John McCain, while claiming to be disabled to the tune of $58k a year. They'd eviscerate us. And they did, when the candidate was John Kerry.

A Second PS: Imagine had the Democratic candidate served in Vietnam, been captured, and then made propaganda videos for the enemy while claiming all the while to be a hero. That's a story for another day, but just imagine had our candidate run on his war record, and used his captivity to justify $58,000 a year in benefits, when during such captivity he made propaganda videos for the enemy. I have a feeling our guy would be laughed out of the race.

What the Christ? I'm thinking he owes some taxpayers a couple decades worth of disability!
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Post by Ender »

I would want to see the disability reports before judging whether he deserves it or not, but I'm more confused by the 58K figure. IIRC maxed-out disability is E-5 pay for life, and 58K is an extra 10 grand on top of E-5 pay with VA BAH and nuke specialist pay.
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Post by SirNitram »

It's certainly not from SS Disability, that caps out way before 58K.
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Post by Ender »

VA disability compensation

OK, absolute max is $3000 a month. I don't see anything saying officers get more then enlisted.
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Post by Lonestar »

VA + Pension?
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Post by Darth Yoshi »

As I understand it, if you have a pension, then VA comes out of the pension, so it still wouldn't be 58K.
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Post by Sidewinder »

Veterans Pension Program wrote:What is VA Pension for veterans?
Pension is a benefit paid to wartime veterans who have limited or no income, and who are age 65 or older, or, if under 65, who are permanently and totally disabled. Veterans who are more seriously disabled may qualify for Aid and Attendance or Housebound benefits. These are benefits that are paid in addition to the basic pension rate.

Who is eligible?
Generally, you may be eligible if:
* you were discharged from service under conditions other than dishonorable,
AND
* you served at least 90 days of active military service 1 day of which was during a war time period. If you entered active duty after September 7, 1980, generally you must have served at least 24 months or the full period for which called or ordered to active duty (There are exceptions to this rule),
AND
* your countable family income is below a yearly limit set by law (The yearly limit on income is set by Congress),
AND
* you are age 65 or older, OR, you are permanently and totally disabled, not due to your own willful misconduct.

As you can see, there are a number of criteria that may affect your eligibility to pension benefits. If you are unsure if you meet all criteria, we encourage you to go ahead and file an application, particularly if your countable income appears to be near the maximum. VA will determine if you are eligible and notify you. If you do not initially qualify, you may reapply if you have un-reimbursed medical expenses during the twelve month period after VA receives your claim that bring your countable income below the yearly income limit. (These are expense you have paid for medical services or products for which you will not be reimbursed by Medicare or private medical insurance.)

What is countable income for veterans pension eligibility purposes?
This includes income received by the veteran and his or her dependents, if any, from most sources. It includes earnings, disability and retirement payments, interest and dividends, and net income from farming or business.

There is a presumption that all of a child's income is available to or for the veteran. VA may grant an exception in hardship cases.

What about net worth?
Net worth means the net value of the assets of the veteran and his or her dependents. It includes such assets as bank accounts, stocks, bonds, mutual funds and any property other than the veteran's residence and a reasonable lot area. There is no set limit on how much net worth a veteran and his dependents can have, but net worth cannot be excessive. The decision as to whether a claimant's net worth is excessive depends on the facts of each individual case. All net worth should be reported and VA will determine if a claimant's assets are sufficiently large that the claimant could live off these assets for a reasonable period of time. VA's needs-based programs are not intended to protect substantial assets or build up an estate for the benefit of heirs.

Are there any exclusions to income or deductions that may be made to reduce countable income?
Yes, there are exclusions. The following are examples of what may be excluded:
* Public assistance such as Supplemental Security Income is not considered income.
* Many other specific sources of income are not considered income, however, all income should be reported. VA will exclude any income that the law allows.
* A portion of unreimbursed medical expenses paid by the claimant after VA receives the claimant's pension claim may be deducted. (These are expense you have paid for medical services or products for which you will not be reimbursed by Medicare or private medical insurance.)
* Certain other expenses, such as a veteran's education expenses, and in some cases, a portion of the educational expenses of a child over 18 are deductible.

How Does VA calculate your pension?
Your annual pension is calculated by first totaling all your countable income. Then any deductions are subtracted from that total. The remaining countable income is deducted from the appropriate annual pension limit which is determined by the number of your dependents, if any, and whether or not you are entitled to housebound or aid and attendance benefits. This amount is then divided by 12 and rounded down to the nearest dollar. This gives you the amount of your monthly payment.
Sounds like McCain shouldn't be getting a pension, although he'd likely still qualify for disability benefits.
A Second PS: Imagine had the Democratic candidate served in Vietnam, been captured, and then made propaganda videos for the enemy while claiming all the while to be a hero.
I wouldn't hold making propaganda videos for the enemy against McCain; if a prison warden wants a POW to appear in a propaganda video, the POW will be beaten and starved until he agrees to appear, or his friends will be beaten and starved until he agrees, assuming the warden doesn't lose patience and order the POW shot.
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Post by Mr Bean »

McCain FYI can't raise his arms above his head or carry heavy loads because of the beatings he got while in POW camps. I won't for one second aurgue he does not deserve some form of disability but prehaps not that much.

Ok McCain left the Navy as a Captain with twenty years and change worth of service under his belt, under current pay scales that's 101,592$ a year(Minus taxes) at 50% of his current salary it would be 50,796 a year. Which means to receive 58k he needs to be given a minimum of 57.5% f his military salery.

Which makes no sense, the only thing that does make sense is if the article flubs it and adds in his Pension and his disability togther to get the 58k figure.

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Post by Darth Wong »

Mr Bean wrote:McCain FYI can't raise his arms above his head or carry heavy loads because of the beatings he got while in POW camps.
And yet he's still capable of twisting himself 270 degrees depending on which way the conservative wind is blowing :)
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Post by Johonebesus »

Sidewinder wrote:
A Second PS: Imagine had the Democratic candidate served in Vietnam, been captured, and then made propaganda videos for the enemy while claiming all the while to be a hero.
I wouldn't hold making propaganda videos for the enemy against McCain; if a prison warden wants a POW to appear in a propaganda video, the POW will be beaten and starved until he agrees to appear, or his friends will be beaten and starved until he agrees, assuming the warden doesn't lose patience and order the POW shot.
I don't think he's saying that McCain ought to be crucified for it, only that the right-wing propaganda machine and then the mainstream media would crucify him if he were a Democrat.


Mr Bean wrote:McCain FYI can't raise his arms above his head or carry heavy loads because of the beatings he got while in POW camps. I won't for one second aurgue he does not deserve some form of disability but prehaps not that much.
I don't think disability pensions are supposed to be compensation for suffering a disability, but rather to help people who are unable to support themselves due to their disabilities, either because they are unable to find work or because of their medical expenses. Something that is technically a disability but clearly does not get in the way of someone earning a good living really shouldn't qualify one for benefits.
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Post by Mr Bean »

Johonebesus wrote: I don't think disability pensions are supposed to be compensation for suffering a disability, but rather to help people who are unable to support themselves due to their disabilities, either because they are unable to find work or because of their medical expenses. Something that is technically a disability but clearly does not get in the way of someone earning a good living really shouldn't qualify one for benefits.
McCain is a basket case of medical issues if the two thousand pages over just a five year period were not enough of an indication of that. He's not a heathy person and still faces many medical issues that age has only made worse. He for example would do fine as a Wall-Mart greeter but ask him to stock a shelf at eye height and he's fucked, he can't do it.

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Post by Johonebesus »

Mr Bean wrote:
Johonebesus wrote: I don't think disability pensions are supposed to be compensation for suffering a disability, but rather to help people who are unable to support themselves due to their disabilities, either because they are unable to find work or because of their medical expenses. Something that is technically a disability but clearly does not get in the way of someone earning a good living really shouldn't qualify one for benefits.
McCain is a basket case of medical issues if the two thousand pages over just a five year period were not enough of an indication of that. He's not a heathy person and still faces many medical issues that age has only made worse. He for example would do fine as a Wall-Mart greeter but ask him to stock a shelf at eye height and he's fucked, he can't do it.
Like I said, disability benefits should be protection for people who need the money, not just compensation for pain. I'm not disputing that he is physically damaged or even that he suffers. However, he clearly does not need the money. He has been quite able to earn enough money to support himself and pay for his medical expenses. It's especially disgusting in light of the difficulty Iraq vets are having in getting benefits they not only deserve, but need.
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Post by Darth Wong »

I don't think his financial need (or lack thereof) would be particularly relevant if not for the fact that he's always talking about keeping costs down. Compensation for work (and contractual obligations relating to pensions, disability pay, etc) are not contingent upon the person being financially destitute without them, and I don't think it's fair to act as if they are. But when you're talking about a guy who is trying to squeeze every penny in a time when disabled vets are getting short shrift on treatment, it becomes pretty goddamned hypocritical. After all, the addition of a "financial needs" clause in veterans' compensation could easily save a boatload of money.
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Post by Alyrium Denryle »


I don't think he's saying that McCain ought to be crucified for it, only that the right-wing propaganda machine and then the mainstream media would crucify him if he were a Democrat.
Comment stolen from my roommate:

I think considering the fact that he cant lift his arms above his head, that crucifixion would be rather difficult....
McCain is a basket case of medical issues if the two thousand pages over just a five year period were not enough of an indication of that. He's not a heathy person and still faces many medical issues that age has only made worse. He for example would do fine as a Wall-Mart greeter but ask him to stock a shelf at eye height and he's fucked, he can't do it.
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In all seriousness though, the man has almost a double digit number of houses, and is obscenely wealthy. He does not need it, and frankly, there are soldiers who need that money right now, disabled vets, injured in military hospitals, etc etc that need it more. 58k would support 2 completely disabled vets if they lived modestly, there is no excuse for this. He should have stopped accepting the money decades ago.
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