[Discussion] Request for reinstatement from Bluewolf

[LadyTevar]

I am willing to give him enough rope to try again. Who knows, he may manage not to hang himself.

Besides, we let Alyrium back in after he blew up.

[seanrobertson]

The honorable Senator Ted Collins hasn't received clearance to join us on the senate floor yet, so I'd like to pass his input along:

Bluewolf signed on to the Wiki and asked posted to the "Bannable offense" talk page, asking if there were any way to get a ban lifted.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/mrwong/wik ... le_offense

He is basically following the path that I indicated in my response, that the only possible way to get a ban lifted would be to ask Mike VERY nicely and contritely.

That being the case, I am inclined to agree that he should be reinstated on probation, with a title reflecting his status, so that anyone who sees him acting like a dick can immediately inform a Mod. If he makes intelligent contributions, the probationary status can be removed with the approval of Mike or the Senate. If he screws up again, he can be canned instantly.

[Coyote]

Here is a comment from a citizen, which while I don't fully agree, shall air the concerns in the spirit of fairness:

Considering the actions of Warsie, I am against reinstatement.

I am given the impression that Bluewolf was pissed off at another board and decided to enlist help to hack thus resulting in his ban.

You don't have to be an adult to know when you are pissed off it is best to back away from the situation that is pissing you off and calm down.

Instead he irrationally tried to commit a crime and ask others to help him.

We seriously should not countenance his return for that reason alone, especially with Warsie's recent banning. Bluewolf is a loose cannon waiting to blow and for that reason best to keep him banned for the safety of the Board and its members.

[phongn]

Does probation really mean anything? Are we simply going to reinstate his ban if he breaks no rules yet not particularly show any major improvement in maturity?

[Sea Skimmer]

I don’t really care about this one way or another, but people don’t change in a single year.

[Darth Wong]

Does probation really mean anything? Are we simply going to reinstate his ban if he breaks no rules yet not particularly show any major improvement in maturity?

It means people will take that into account if he does something to make people start a ban poll, and he'll probably lose that poll, even for an offense that would not necessarily have led to a banning if another member did it.

[Ender]

Does probation really mean anything? Are we simply going to reinstate his ban if he breaks no rules yet not particularly show any major improvement in maturity?

It means people will take that into account if he does something to make people start a ban poll, and he'll probably lose that poll, even for an offense that would not necessarily have led to a banning if another member did it.

How often to people dodge ban polls though? Unless I missed a bunch while deployed, getting them usually takes fucking up enough that it is a pretty solid conclusion you are being shown the door.

I'd consider probation, but first we would need to define the specifics of the probation.

[Publius]

Instead of probation, why not simply sudden death? Manifest misbehavior to be punished by a summary banning by one of the administrators or supermoderators.

[Broomstick]

Ah, a zero-tolerance Dresden-style "Doom of Damocles" probation?

[Coyote]

Ah, a zero-tolerance Dresden-style "Doom of Damocles" probation?

That's what I was thinking; something along those lines.

[The Yosemite Bear]

I'm willing to allow the child a second chance, on probation.

I kinda have disagreement with us comming down on teenagers, they aren't fully aware of what they are doing, and have a bit of chemical imballance in their noggins (yeah, I'm one who should talk, seeing as I'm a medicated bi-polar with Aspergers). However unlike myself and some others adolescence is actually a condition which most people grow out of.

[Eleas]

I'm curious as to what he feels he has to offer. Probation sounds good. Besides, I believe knowing he's on probation will provide long-term reinforcement of the value of caution, unlike simply waiting to be readmitted.

[Darth Wong]

Ah, a zero-tolerance Dresden-style "Doom of Damocles" probation?

That would have been informally the case anyway. When someone's on a short leash, all it takes is one user to point out an infraction, and then we would look at his history and say "Oh yeah, this guy" and that would probably be it.

[Dalton]

Cast my vote.

[fgalkin]

We have declined to reinstate previously banned users despite claims of their improvement before (case in point, RayCav), I do not see why we should start now. It is called a "permban" for a reason, after all.

We have the possibility of a tempban on the books and we have used it on several occasions. Perhaps we should start giving it wider use to prevent things like this.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[The Duchess of Zeon]

In light of what's just happened, I don't want anyone who has ever proposed illegal activities like hacking to ever be allowed back, period, whatsoever.

[Imperial Overlord]

We have declined to reinstate previously banned users despite claims of their improvement before (case in point, RayCav), I do not see why we should start now. It is called a "permban" for a reason, after all.

Alyrium was reinstated, after getting banned for doing stupid teenager stuff and he's behaved himself. There is precedent.

We could always unban Bluewolf long enough to make his case in the Coliseum and decide based on his performance (idea stolen from one of the board's peons).

[Broomstick]

In light of what's just happened, I don't want anyone who has ever proposed illegal activities like hacking to ever be allowed back, period, whatsoever.

Seeing as one of our long-term posters is a convicted felon (and I for one would not want to see him go, even if he is occasionally irritating) I don't how that argument can hold up when discussing a child who proposed a illicit activity but did not actually commit it.

What next - the next time someone comments in a N&P thread on a murderer, rapist, or child molester with "kill him by (some horrible torture)" we ban that person, too? Isn't hat proposing an "illegal activity"?

Bluewolf is not Warsie. He deserves to have his request considered independently of someone else's transgressions.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

In light of what's just happened, I don't want anyone who has ever proposed illegal activities like hacking to ever be allowed back, period, whatsoever.

Seeing as one of our long-term posters is a convicted felon (and I for one would not want to see him go, even if he is occasionally irritating) I don't how that argument can hold up when discussing a child who proposed a illicit activity but did not actually commit it.

What next - the next time someone comments in a N&P thread on a murderer, rapist, or child molester with "kill him by (some horrible torture)" we ban that person, too? Isn't hat proposing an "illegal activity"?

Bluewolf is not Warsie. He deserves to have his request considered independently of someone else's transgressions.

I'm just extremely deeply concerned about the safety of perfectly innocent people on this board--isn't that basically part of the position? We have to at least consider these things when we're looking at the lives of people being destroyed.

[Broomstick]

Yes, we need to consider things, but as I as Bluewolf is not Warsie.

Let's consider: Bluewolf suggested a DOS attack on another forum. Although not a trivial thing, it is FAR less than serious than screwing around with tricking people into child porn searches. Bluewolf apparently realizes the error of his ways - Warsie hasn't a fucking clue that he did something wrong. Bluewolf is awaiting our verdict - Warsie ran for the hills and tried to cover his tracks by distributing false e-mail addresses. Bluewolf is a dog that became irritable and snapped at someone's hand. Warsie has rabies and has bitten a few people.

My position on Bluewolf has not changed one whit.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Nor is blue Ryan "Mark Sheppard" Criere (sp) whose the only irritating convicted felon I could think of.

[Coyote]

Nor is blue Ryan "Mark Sheppard" Criere (sp) whose the only irritating convicted felon I could think of.

Stofsk. I think it is safe to say most of us here give him the benefit of the doubt.

[seanrobertson]

Bluewolf is not Warsie. He deserves to have his request considered independently of someone else's transgressions.

Agreed.

[RedImperator]

Instead of probation, why not simply sudden death? Manifest misbehavior to be punished by a summary banning by one of the administrators or supermoderators.

I was thinking exactly this. Probation means no Senate privileges: if he fucks up, an admin summarily bans him. I'd support this.

[Ted C]

The Senate opinion seems fairly clear. Was any action ever taken on this issue?