SD.net's World OOC/Discussion thread MK IV

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2008-06-12 10:23pm

MariusRoi wrote:
PeZook wrote:I wonder why Duchies have such a hard-on for landing craft?

I mean, you're not making a forced landing anywhere without a good number of varied landing craft and air superiority. Strategic lift for fighting brushfires and such is better done with airplanes and ekranoplans, with bigger boys punching holes in people's defences.
.

While not a Duchy, I was looking at an LHD as a means of evacing my citizens from conflict zones (and doing forced landings to remove them at the same time).

You are better off with an An-225. LHDs cannot land on the beaches. Only LSTs can.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2008-06-12 10:35pm

Bah to An-225s. Get a Douglas Pelican. Available in starting in 2013 (probably).

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2008-06-12 10:54pm

Beowulf wrote:Bah to An-225s. Get a Douglas Pelican. Available in starting in 2013 (probably).

What are the specs?

EDIT: BTW, I'm constructing a sealaunch platform. What rockets might you have for the task?

TimothyC · Post by **TimothyC** » 2008-06-12 11:08pm

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
MariusRoi wrote:
PeZook wrote:I wonder why Duchies have such a hard-on for landing craft?

I mean, you're not making a forced landing anywhere without a good number of varied landing craft and air superiority. Strategic lift for fighting brushfires and such is better done with airplanes and ekranoplans, with bigger boys punching holes in people's defences.
.

While not a Duchy, I was looking at an LHD as a means of evacing my citizens from conflict zones (and doing forced landings to remove them at the same time).
You are better off with an An-225. LHDs cannot land on the beaches. Only LSTs can.

I said I was Looking at an LHD (and some LCAC to go with it), but I'm not now. I've decided to go with my fleet of Electras and Herculeses. The Pelican might be an interesting purchase though.

Oh and I'm still waiting for my LNG tankers from Wilkinson.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2008-06-12 11:09pm

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
Beowulf wrote:Bah to An-225s. Get a Douglas Pelican. Available in starting in 2013 (probably).
What are the specs?

EDIT: BTW, I'm constructing a sealaunch platform. What rockets might you have for the task?

http://www.boeing.com/news/frontiers/ar ... /i_pw.html

About 1270 metric tons capacity, ginormous dimensions.

For sealaunched rockets, there's Drake, naturally enough (there's no plan to make a land launched version of that rocket). There's also Atlas Vs, Delta IIs, and Starboosters. There hasn't been much call for the mid-low range of launch vehicles, so they don't really exist. The Atlas and Delta will have to be modified for sea launch.

Someone asked earlier about upper stages. Currently, the vast majority of upper stages that the Tian Xia side of the MSA has used are RL-10 based.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2008-06-12 11:37pm

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: You are better off with an An-225. LHDs cannot land on the beaches. Only LSTs can.

LHDs launch air cusion landing craft which can use 80% of the worlds coastline and go miles inland before unloading. The An-225 meanwhile needs an 11,500ft runway, which means it can use maybe 1% of the world’s runways, even many large international airports cannot accommodate it. It is hardly the plane to buy if you want flexibility.

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2008-06-12 11:48pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: You are better off with an An-225. LHDs cannot land on the beaches. Only LSTs can.
LHDs launch air cusion landing craft which can use 80% of the worlds coastline and go miles inland before unloading. The An-225 meanwhile needs an 11,500ft runway, which means it can use maybe 1% of the world’s runways, even many large international airports cannot accommodate it. It is hardly the plane to buy if you want flexibility.

Ok. How about the other Antonov aircraft? Do they need a similarly long runway?

I'd figure that if he wanted to evacuate his citizens, doing it through landing craft and helicopters not only takes time, it means getting near the shore which might be hostile.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2008-06-13 02:38am

Available in starting in 2013 (probably)

Get the KM-class wing in ground plane now.

~500 tons capacity, over 500 kph speed.

The Pelican would be a pain in the ass to land. It's so freaking huge that it would be even less agile than the Antonov An-225.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2008-06-13 03:32am

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: Ok. How about the other Antonov aircraft? Do they need a similarly long runway?

The An-225 needs a big runway because it wasn't meant to be a military transport, it just needed to haul the Soviet shuttle from one space base to another. The still huge An-124 is a bit more reasonable, it needs 10,000ft, which is relatively common for big airports. Most big runways top out at about 10,500ft, which is by deliberate design just enough for a fully loaded B747 or A380 to operate from them.

If you want the ability to land at most any airport you’ll find around the world, you need something more like an Il-76 (6,500ft), which still big enough to haul a tank, or the C-17 which by far beats out all other large transport planes for short strip operations (as little as 3,500ft of DIRT for light load takeoff).

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2008-06-13 03:37am

FASTA soldiers on!

Should we use Altairs or the Soviet LK?

We could use both, but using a single design would make it easier for both Lonestar and us in the future. Then again, the Altair would have to fly with two people from the Soyuz, since the Soyuz can't be left in orbit by itself for long.

Unless...we modify it

EDIT: oh, goddammit. The Soyuz can accomodate only two people in space suits

We could make the mission a bit more risky and stow EVA suits in the lander only, but...well, that's pretty damn risky

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2008-06-13 03:45am

I recall that the now-defunct OMSK program had astronauts in Space? I guess we just need to go to the next stage of at least landing a probe on the moon.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2008-06-13 03:50am

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:I recall that the now-defunct OMSK program had astronauts in Space? I guess we just need to go to the next stage of at least landing a probe on the moon.

Yeah, but they used the SPIRAL. The SPIRAL is useless for a LOR Moon landing because it has no docking system, and little endurance without a space station to resupply it.

So we need to use the Soyuz or the Orion. Either way, there is still time to decide - the first Selene missions (1-5) will only test docking systems, so we can still change the concept.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2008-06-13 03:52am

I know most of ya'll dislike the IRT, but any thoughts on the orbital propellant station the IRT is working on?

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2008-06-13 03:56am

phongn wrote:I know most of ya'll dislike the IRT, but any thoughts on the orbital propellant station the IRT is working on?

If you read the FASTA bulletins,we contracted a feasibility study for that

The thing is...it's a pretty elaborate thing, and still requires the fuel to be shipped to orbit by a rocket.

So you use one booster to launch the fuel depot. Then you launch a moon rocket, and it docks. After it leaves, you need another launch to fill the station up again.

I'm not sure it saves any money at all.

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2008-06-13 03:59am

phongn:

Um, the URL doesn't work?

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2008-06-13 04:01am

Shroom Man 777 wrote:phongn:

Um, the URL doesn't work?

Works just fine for me...

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2008-06-13 08:08am

Oh, you thought they were gone? No they're not! And the thing is, they're from Shinra! Mu-ha-ha-haaaa!

Let's hope RogueIce's Turks can handle 'em.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2008-06-13 08:16am

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Oh, you thought they were gone? No they're not! And the thing is, they're from Shinra! Mu-ha-ha-haaaa!

Let's hope RogueIce's Turks can handle 'em.

Oh, this reminds me...there was supposed to be a protest.

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2008-06-13 08:20am

On that note, perhaps Shroom should go to PeZookia some time in the near future and go touring and making a big awesome speech about how despite their tininess, PeZookia has done so much to help the world.

Would help Paul's PR.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2008-06-13 08:22am

Shroom Man 777 wrote:On that note, perhaps Shroom should go to PeZookia some time in the near future and go touring and making a big awesome speech about how despite their tininess, PeZookia has done so much to help the world.

Would help Paul's PR.

You know...I'd appreciate that. Especially since people are about to start wrecking shit because they're so pissed about that 500 million donation to FASTA.

I will also need to start a marketing campaign to promote the idea

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2008-06-13 08:25am

Hrm... when could we schedule that visit? Or could your protesters be suddenly surprised by a magically appearing Prime Minister Shroom the 777th?

"Holy shit! What's that nut doing here?!"

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2008-06-13 08:32am

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Hrm... when could we schedule that visit? Or could your protesters be suddenly surprised by a magically appearing Prime Minister Shroom the 777th?

"Holy shit! What's that nut doing here?!"

Hmm...after I'm done with RogueIce? Or we may do that in paralell, unreal-time like

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2008-06-13 08:33am

That would be TOO weird

Damn it, maybe I should give Shroomania some people-problems as well!

Or maybe I have successfully cowed them with shitty reality TV and celebrities who don't wear underwear

DarthShady · Post by **DarthShady** » 2008-06-13 09:09am

Shroom Man 777 wrote:That would be TOO weird

Damn it, maybe I should give Shroomania some people-problems as well!

Or maybe I have successfully cowed them with shitty reality TV and celebrities who don't wear underwear

I can easily see some anti porn protests.

Raj Ahten · Post by **Raj Ahten** » 2008-06-13 12:04pm

PeZook wrote:
Shroom Man 777 wrote:Oh, you thought they were gone? No they're not! And the thing is, they're from Shinra! Mu-ha-ha-haaaa!

Let's hope RogueIce's Turks can handle 'em.
Oh, this reminds me...there was supposed to be a protest.

You know, I really should put in something about what the domestic opinion in Indhopal is overrecent events and budgets. They are more likely to feel pride over the new defence and space programs (especially the space program) as it shows Indhopal is umportant and running with the large nations.

The populace is likely to be pissed about the apparant lack of progress in terrorism investigations though.