Doctor Who SE30E10: "Midnight"

[Plekhanov]

For a forum that often bitches about how unscary Dr. Who is and how it is targetted at children here was an episode that was aimed at horror, had no plot holes that I could find, succeeded in being genuinely freaky and had a mystery.

Since when did the Doctor have to know everything?

Since when was a mystery and not knowing what was going to happen not exciting.

I gave it 5/5, I think there are people who would be arguing differently if Moffat had written the episode but want to bitch about it because Davis wrote it. I thought it would be bland because it was a Davis. I was wrong. Dead fucking wrong. I got over it. Who else will?

I thought it was an ok episode the only real problem I had was the bus not having cctv so that the drivers could see where they were going (which is always useful) and also so that the tourists who'd presumably paid a fair amount of cash to stay on the diamond planet could actually see it as they travelled, which you'd kind of assume was the main reason for being there.

I realise Davies wanted to create a claustrophobic atmosphere and so forth but he could have achieved that once they got into difficulties by having the cameras being disabled by whatever that thing was, the notion of tourists intentionally not being able to sight see is just absurd.

[Vaporous]

They lost me as soon as they tried to tell me the Doctor needed to take a tour bus.

He didn't "need" to take anything. The point was experiencing the journey and the people itself. That's like saying you don't need to visit Egypt to see the pyramids if you have Encyclopædia Britannica's images.

I'm saying that you can see the pyramids without a tour group when you have a time machine that flies. Sure glad he got to meet all those wonderful people inside the Plot-Contrivance Mobile!

More seriously, I understand thats not a big deal. The episode is jsut mediocre and dopey in general. I especially enjoyed "Ok, now that we know that it's copying us and we shouldn't talk, lets walk to the other side of the ship... and keep talking for no discernible reason."

[Old Peculier]

They lost me as soon as they tried to tell me the Doctor needed to take a tour bus.

He didn't "need" to take anything. The point was experiencing the journey and the people itself. That's like saying you don't need to visit Egypt to see the pyramids if you have Encyclopædia Britannica's images.

I'm saying that you can see the pyramids without a tour group when you have a time machine that flies. Sure glad he got to meet all those wonderful people inside the Plot-Contrivance Mobile!

More seriously, I understand thats not a big deal. The episode is jsut mediocre and dopey in general. I especially enjoyed "Ok, now that we know that it's copying us and we shouldn't talk, lets walk to the other side of the ship... and keep talking for no discernible reason."

Only they were panicking and had no reason to trust the doctor. Plus the doctor lost them when he implied he wasn't human and by acted quite suspiciously by calling himself John Smith etc.

[bilateralrope]

One thing that did detract from this, to my mind, was the notion repeated rather a lot, that nothing could survive outside: Really? Not Daleks, Krotons, Cybermen or any of a dozen other essentially inorganic races? Nothing in really powerful body armour?

Well it was said that the resort was lowered from orbit, which suggests that they would of had major problems using robotics on the surface.

[Plekhanov]

One thing that did detract from this, to my mind, was the notion repeated rather a lot, that nothing could survive outside: Really? Not Daleks, Krotons, Cybermen or any of a dozen other essentially inorganic races? Nothing in really powerful body armour?

Well it was said that the resort was lowered from orbit, which suggests that they would of had major problems using robotics on the surface.

Why does it suggest that?

[andrewgpaul]

They lost me as soon as they tried to tell me the Doctor needed to take a tour bus.

He didn't "need" to take anything. The point was experiencing the journey and the people itself. That's like saying you don't need to visit Egypt to see the pyramids if you have Encyclopædia Britannica's images.

I'm saying that you can see the pyramids without a tour group when you have a time machine that flies.

Rather erratically, usually. In any case, I think half the reason he went on the trip was to experience the trip itself; meet the other tourists, that sort of thing.

[bilateralrope]

One thing that did detract from this, to my mind, was the notion repeated rather a lot, that nothing could survive outside: Really? Not Daleks, Krotons, Cybermen or any of a dozen other essentially inorganic races? Nothing in really powerful body armour?

Well it was said that the resort was lowered from orbit, which suggests that they would of had major problems using robotics on the surface.

Why does it suggest that?

Wouldn't constructing something then moving it be a lot more effort than just constructing it on the spot ?

Wouldn't designing it to be moved limit your options compared to if you were just designing it to stay in one place ?

Or do the humans of that time period have some technology to make moving it very easy ?
Since they said it was lowered from orbit, I'm ruling out teleportation.

[Jawawithagun]

Wouldn't constructing something then moving it be a lot more effort than just constructing it on the spot ?

Wouldn't designing it to be moved limit your options compared to if you were just designing it to stay in one place ?

Or do the humans of that time period have some technology to make moving it very easy ?
Since they said it was lowered from orbit, I'm ruling out teleportation.

It might actually just be that much easier and cheaper to prefab it and the deliver the finished piece.
Somewhat like trailers.

Heck, it should even be that they take the thing and put it on a different planet once the profits go down and they start looking for greener pastures.

[Plekhanov]

Well it was said that the resort was lowered from orbit, which suggests that they would of had major problems using robotics on the surface.

Why does it suggest that?

Wouldn't constructing something then moving it be a lot more effort than just constructing it on the spot ?

Wouldn't designing it to be moved limit your options compared to if you were just designing it to stay in one place ?

Prefabs are commonly used on earth today in all kinds of environments which unprotected humans have no difficulty walking around in, sometimes it's just cheaper and easier to do things that way it doesn't mean it's impossible or very difficult to build things on site.

Them simply using a prefab simply doesn't justify the assumption that robotics wouldn't work on the surface, particularly as you'd have to explain why manned machines seem to have no problems working there. Why would a truck with people in it work but not a robot?

Or do the humans of that time period have some technology to make moving it very easy ?
Since they said it was lowered from orbit, I'm ruling out teleportation.

Well that's rather my point, for all we know the civilization which built the resort could have very cheap energy, ftl and anti-grav technology which makes prefabbing stuff and then shipping it out the most cost effective way of doing things.

[Hillary]

I am not a homophobe and don't have anything against homosexuals but the episode started to go downhill the very minute Davies had to put his usuall two cents in and mention that Skye was a lesbian. That part was not even needed, it played no part in the rest of the story

Just consider, for a moment, that RTD was straight and that Skye had said "he" instead of "she". Now imagine that a gay member of SDN had posted this.

I am not a heterophobe and don't have anything against heterosexuals but the episode started to go downhill the very minute Davies had to put his usuall two cents in and mention that Skye was a heterosexual. That part was not even needed, it played no part in the rest of the story

How ridiculous would you think the poster was being?

[Hillary]

Good episode, not great imo. Barely any Donna, which will bring joy to Stark's world.

I did rather like the way that The Doctor went from being one of the gang of passengers to a complete outsider - for once his "I'm in charge" demeanour backfiring spectacularly. Brains are not always a match for the mob mentality.

For a low budget episode (and there are always a couple of these a series), this one worked pretty damn well. There was something a bit 'Moffat-y' about the unseen menace and the demonstration of the power of fear. The whole "destroy what you don't understand" mentality of the human race is also a well-trodden theme of both the old series and the new.

[Plekhanov]

I am not a homophobe and don't have anything against homosexuals but the episode started to go downhill the very minute Davies had to put his usuall two cents in and mention that Skye was a lesbian. That part was not even needed, it played no part in the rest of the story

Just consider, for a moment, that RTD was straight and that Skye had said "he" instead of "she". Now imagine that a gay member of SDN had posted this.

I am not a heterophobe and don't have anything against heterosexuals but the episode started to go downhill the very minute Davies had to put his usuall two cents in and mention that Skye was a heterosexual. That part was not even needed, it played no part in the rest of the story

How ridiculous would you think the poster was being?

I don't think Tychu gets that Davies regards homosexuality as unremarkable and as such you don't have to make a big deal out of a character being gay and that it's quite possible for a character to be gay without that being of any significance to the overall story (Skye having recently been dumped obviously was though).

Just as Davies didn't mention that Rose and Mickey were in an interracial relationship when no doubt there were plenty of racists upset by that and it wasn't long ago that you wouldn't see a black man going out with a white woman on tv without it being a major plot point.

[Plekhanov]

Good episode, not great imo. Barely any Donna, which will bring joy to Stark's world.

I did rather like the way that The Doctor went from being one of the gang of passengers to a complete outsider - for once his "I'm in charge" demeanour backfiring spectacularly. Brains are not always a match for the mob mentality.

For a low budget episode (and there are always a couple of these a series), this one worked pretty damn well. There was something a bit 'Moffat-y' about the unseen menace and the demonstration of the power of fear. The whole "destroy what you don't understand" mentality of the human race is also a well-trodden theme of both the old series and the new.

I rather got the impression that most of the people were being psychically influenced by the thing possessing Skye so it was less 'Brains are not always a match for the mob mentality' than 'Brains are not always a match for a mob being physically controlled by a mysterious alien'. It's notable that the spell was instantly broken when moment Skye left the truck.

[Lord Woodlouse]

Good episode, not great imo. Barely any Donna, which will bring joy to Stark's world.

I did rather like the way that The Doctor went from being one of the gang of passengers to a complete outsider - for once his "I'm in charge" demeanour backfiring spectacularly. Brains are not always a match for the mob mentality.

For a low budget episode (and there are always a couple of these a series), this one worked pretty damn well. There was something a bit 'Moffat-y' about the unseen menace and the demonstration of the power of fear. The whole "destroy what you don't understand" mentality of the human race is also a well-trodden theme of both the old series and the new.

I rather got the impression that most of the people were being psychically influenced by the thing possessing Skye so it was less 'Brains are not always a match for the mob mentality' than 'Brains are not always a match for a mob being physically controlled by a mysterious alien'. It's notable that the spell was instantly broken when moment Skye left the truck.

The only person who suggested such a thing was the creature herself, and I think that was only to stir their paranoia up even further and chuck the Doctor out. Personally I don't think the alien did anything to them.

I do think that idea was left intentionally open ended though.

[Zixinus]

Best episode in the entire fucking season. This saved it more then Library storyline did.

It was a great change of pace in many ways. This wasn't things going to hell and the Doctor miraculously finding the solution. In fact, it started out what the Doctor should do more often: taking a vacation and enjoying himself. This was a tense situation where people reacted in a way that I would have expected them to: scared and not thinking clearly.

So nobody but the Doctor had any sense. That's because when you are in danger, it doesn't matter if you are Joe Average working in a fast burger joint or Professor Peter that teaches advanced courses or Super-science. When disaster strikes, either you have the guts to get a hold of yourself or not. If you don't, then you will act like an idiot. None of these people looked like they were ever in such a tense situation before. The Doctor LIVES for situation like these. There is a difference.

Also consider the words of the possessed thing. It hinted that it influenced people around it. Maybe it was deliberately toying with them for its own amusement.

My only problem with this episode was that I would have expected the damn bus to have external cameras. Maybe they wouldn't work due to the bullshit-radiation but still, some form of external sensory. A fucking telescope or something.

In fact he seemed to be the stereotypical scientist as potrayed in tv, and not like a real one - ie unlike real scientist he refuses to change his views despite the evidence.

He might have acted differently if he wasn't scared shitless. Scientists are human beings and they can act just as irrational as the next person.

Bounty asked why it needed an explanation. Generally leaving it mysterious works in certain situations like "pure" horror stories, or in Star Trek where we can get the feel that yes our science hasn't explained everything. However in Doctor Who where the character is a member of a race with massive knowledge, has been around billions of years and someone like the doctor who doesn't just go "ah its too hard to I won't try to explain it". Thus leaving it mysterious tends to go against one of the themes of the program.

So what? It's trying something new, and it shows that the Doctor is only human. Perhaps the Time Lords DO know what the thing was, its just that the Doctor didn't. He has great knowledge but that doesn't make him omniscient. Perhaps he was interested in finding out but after the events, he didn't want anyone risking their life to satisfy his curiosity and just wanted the thing left alone. Also, he was possessed, which might have caused some discouraging trauma. A Time Lord, a creature with one of the most powerful minds in the whoverse, possessed. That's scary, and that is what makes it interesting. Not knowing what it is makes it interesting.

To quote Yathzee: "This isn't rocket science, mysteries lose their appeal the instant you you explain them." - Zero Puntuation's Condemned 2 review

I am not a homophobe and don't have anything against homosexuals but the episode started to go downhill the very minute Davies had to put his usuall two cents in and mention that Skye was a lesbian. That part was not even needed, it played no part in the rest of the story and immediately aftewards I think (have to painfully watch it again but) immediately afterwards was when everyone started shouting and screaming and acting like bafoons.

And you think there is a connection? Between Sky being a lesbian and everyone starting to act like a moron after that? No, its just that Sky had a partner that may have had something to do with what happened. Sky's partner could have easily been male and it would have not made a difference. So Russel takes the opportunity to throw in two cents. It doesn't change the story in the least bit, which is why its a great opportunity.

Second, that's not when everyone started kicking and screaming. First, the bus stopped. Then the Doctor visited the drivers. It was AFTER that, when things started to get wrong.

I gave it 5/5, I think there are people who would be arguing differently if Moffat had written the episode but want to bitch about it because Davis wrote it. I thought it would be bland because it was a Davis. I was wrong. Dead fucking wrong. I got over it. Who else will?

*raises hand*

I think RTS outdid himself (herself?) with this episode.

I'm saying that you can see the pyramids without a tour group when you have a time machine that flies. Sure glad he got to meet all those wonderful people inside the Plot-Contrivance Mobile!

Sure, but being part of a tour bus is part of the experience. I reckon just using the TARDIS to see the thing would have felt a little cheap to him. Remember, community experience.

[Hillary]

I rather got the impression that most of the people were being psychically influenced by the thing possessing Skye so it was less 'Brains are not always a match for the mob mentality' than 'Brains are not always a match for a mob being physically controlled by a mysterious alien'. It's notable that the spell was instantly broken when moment Skye left the truck.

That's certainly a possibility, but my take was that the Skye creature was simply whipping up the hysteria already present. The reason the spell was broken (in my view, anyway) was that the Doctor could move again and talk independently. That, and the horror of watching the air hostess and Skye die.

One reason why I don't think Skye was controlling the others is that only half of them were affected. Quite clearly the air hostess and the professor's assistant weren't and the young lad (I'm shit at names ) appeared not to want to join in either.

As I said previously, Doctor Who has form on the "scared humans lashing out" front.

As for Tychu, he reminds me of several people I've met who have the "I'm not homophobic, but I don't like them flaunting it in front of me" worldview. Normal everyday activities like holding hands or kissing are viewed as deliberate political statements.

[mr friendly guy]

1) I don't know why people complain the Doctor chose to go on a tourist trip rather than the TARDIS when

a) He used that opportunity to meet others since he deliberately sabotaged the entertainment system and then suggested to the other passengers that we should talk to each other

b) How many people travelling overseas would prefer a mixture of having a the touring company arrange transport and then doing some of your own exploring vs each one alone? I would prefer doing a mixture of both, so I don't find it strange that the Doctor decided to try a tourist service when he was obviously on holiday.

2) Why the complaints against the stupid passengers? It was obvious they were either stupid or panicking or both. If a main character of a show acted stupid just for plot contrivance (Star trek I am looking at you) then its a let down. Having average joes act stupid like, oh I don't know, 99% of the population seems normal to me.

Maybe I have become jaded being on this board and hearing about the stupidity in the world board members encounter in real life or hear about, but frankly seeing people do stupid things instead of the smart things seems quite realistic to me.

[Plekhanov]

I rather got the impression that most of the people were being psychically influenced by the thing possessing Skye so it was less 'Brains are not always a match for the mob mentality' than 'Brains are not always a match for a mob being physically controlled by a mysterious alien'. It's notable that the spell was instantly broken when moment Skye left the truck.

The only person who suggested such a thing was the creature herself, and I think that was only to stir their paranoia up even further and chuck the Doctor out. Personally I don't think the alien did anything to them.

I do think that idea was left intentionally open ended though.

Seeing as the creature was able to psychically dominate a Time Lord it's hardly a stretch to suggest that it might also have influence over a few humans as well. Particularly as they seemed not to notice how strangely Skye was acting when she was urging them to throw the doctor out.

[Zixinus]

It also seems that most people don't get the fact that these people were scared shitless. Under such circumstances, very few people act rationally even when they are otherwise quite rational people. Nobody knew what was going on except that they knew they were in some sort of danger.

The strange thing would have been if people DID act perfectly calm and rational. I mean, first the bus's side is knocked against from a landscape that is supposedly completely inhabitable for almost any lifeform. Then one of them is apparently possessed in a pretty frightening way. Then there is this strange guy who doesn't give his own fucking name and might be an alien.

This isn't something that happens every day to everyone. People caught off guard do not usually react well.

[Lord Woodlouse]

I rather got the impression that most of the people were being psychically influenced by the thing possessing Skye so it was less 'Brains are not always a match for the mob mentality' than 'Brains are not always a match for a mob being physically controlled by a mysterious alien'. It's notable that the spell was instantly broken when moment Skye left the truck.

The only person who suggested such a thing was the creature herself, and I think that was only to stir their paranoia up even further and chuck the Doctor out. Personally I don't think the alien did anything to them.

I do think that idea was left intentionally open ended though.

Seeing as the creature was able to psychically dominate a Time Lord it's hardly a stretch to suggest that it might also have influence over a few humans as well. Particularly as they seemed not to notice how strangely Skye was acting when she was urging them to throw the doctor out.

Oh, I'm certainly not saying it's impossible. Like a few things in the episode I think it's one of those "Is it or isn't it?" things which we simply have to make our own minds up on, but personally I think that was just simple human panic at work.

[Tychu]

I agree with the talking Iguana. This was another typical Davies story. The biggest thing that drew me off of this episode was the constant stupidity of everyone. The episodes started off very clever and I enjoyed it alot. But

Now here comes the part were everyone will probably rip me apart but here goes.
I am not a homophobe and don't have anything against homosexuals but the episode started to go downhill the very minute Davies had to put his usuall two cents in and mention that Skye was a lesbian. That part was not even needed, it played no part in the rest of the story and immediately aftewards I think (have to painfully watch it again but) immediately afterwards was when everyone started shouting and screaming and acting like bafoons. I was actually getting a headache watching and listening to them.

So once again....goodbye Russel T. Davies and hello Steven Moffet or Stephan Moffat.

I actually thought it was radically unlike RTD's regular fair. RTD usually depends on spectacle, and this episode was almost entirely carried forward through conversation. I found it refreshingly unlike RTD's regular work.

There was a lot of unanswered questions in this episode, but that seemed very deliberate and that mystery worked very well to demonstrate why the creature (names, anyone? ) was so threatening. The Doctor didn't know what it was, he found it fascinating and that same fascination for one of the few times in the show's entire history actually turned out to be his undoing rather than the solution. As I say, this episode was terrifically different, and I worry that some of the naysayers are concentrating on the fact that the plot unfolded with conversation rather than running around.

...and yes, Plekhanov has explained pretty firmly why your "OMG! gay!" response was entirely uncalled for.

You guys didn't take my meaning of the whole homosexual thing correctly. What I was talking about was that just like in every other RTD story he throws in a homosexual reference just for sh*ts and giggles. The fact that Skye was a lesbian played no other role. As Plekhanov mentions, the purpose was to show that she was fragile at the time is correct. All I was saying was that saying that she was a homosexual didn't matter and that in all of RTD's stories he does something similar along those lines. Thats all I was getting at with the homosexual references made by RTD. Maybe in Britain the fact that characters are gay makes the episodes more exciting but dosen't do that for some Americans and others will just be plain mad

[General Zod]

You guys didn't take my meaning of the whole homosexual thing correctly. What I was talking about was that just like in every other RTD story he throws in a homosexual reference just for sh*ts and giggles. The fact that Skye was a lesbian played no other role. As Plekhanov mentions, the purpose was to show that she was fragile at the time is correct. All I was saying was that saying that she was a homosexual didn't matter and that in all of RTD's stories he does something similar along those lines. Thats all I was getting at with the homosexual references made by RTD. Maybe in Britain the fact that characters are gay makes the episodes more exciting but dosen't do that for some Americans and others will just be plain mad

Who cares if it adds anything or not? It sounds like you're making a mountain out of a molehill for an otherwise extremely inconsequential plot-point. If some people find it offensive, they can fuck off.

[Zac Naloen]

Maybe in Britain the fact that characters are gay makes the episodes more exciting but dosen't do that for some Americans and others will just be plain mad

You know what it meant to me, as someone from Britain?

Nothing at all. Not even a double take "OH MY GOD DID SHE SAYS SHE???"

I don't think they've taken it the wrong way at all.

Russell T Davies doesn't put these things in for shits and giggles he does it because no one else has the guts to do it on prime time tv.

It doesn't add to the story, but nor does it take it away. It's just a relationship. His only intention is to challenge to status quo, something he's done his entire career when it comes to trying getting homosexuality accepted in the media in a non-tittilating way.

[Thanas]

For anyone bitching about the oh-so-existing "gay agenda", let me just post this tidbit.

Besides, who the fuck cares if some american homophobes feel icky because character XY is gay/lesbian/bisexual? Heck, we had people mating with trees. Who cares about some butthurt american homophobe? Clearly not RTD and the overwhelming majority of the fanbase.

[Plekhanov]

You guys didn't take my meaning of the whole homosexual thing correctly. What I was talking about was that just like in every other RTD story he throws in a homosexual reference just for sh*ts and giggles.

And why the hell shouldn't he? Heterosexual writers habitually have heterosexual characters in their work why is it such a problem for a gay writer to habitually include both hetero and homosexual characters in his?

The fact that Skye was a lesbian played no other role. As Plekhanov mentions, the purpose was to show that she was fragile at the time is correct. All I was saying was that saying that she was a homosexual didn't matter

That's rather the point, Skye was just a vulnerable person who happened to be gay, why do you have a problem with that?

and that in all of RTD's stories he does something similar along those lines. Thats all I was getting at with the homosexual references made by RTD. Maybe in Britain the fact that characters are gay makes the episodes more exciting but dosen't do that for some Americans and others will just be plain mad

No doubt Rose having a black boy friend made some people 'plain mad', are you going to say Mickey should have been white now or do you only have a problem with members of sexual minorities being in the show without it being a major plot point?