Homosexuality & Mental Illness

[Kitsune]

Got thrown something stumps me a bit. Now since around the 1960s (I believe), homosexuality has not been considered a mental illness.

I was given the argument that those who are homosexual have a high degree of mental illness. There is also the link to this report as evidence of it.

My thoughts is that the treatment of homosexuals often create mental illness but don't know if that is a proper argument.

Any help which anyone can give?

[Superboy]

It does stand to reason that a people who are generally discriminated against, regarded as sub-human by some and sinful by most, and often taught to ignore and repress their natural sexual desires would be more likely to develop some form of mental illness. I'd imagine depression is certainly more common.

[Broomstick]

I also think that if someone is prone to mental illness and is a member of an oppressed group they are not only more likely to express that tendency, but also to suffer from a more severe form of it.

The interesting thing is that, way in the past, people who thought homosexuals were mentally ill were sometimes more inclined to treat them decently, under the idea that they weren't at fault for their untreatable "disease", than were those who felt homosexuality was a sin or choice.

[Eris]

Well, I'm going to assume that the homosexuals having higher incidences of mental illness is an argument against homosexuality in some form. If that's the case, then even if they are more susceptible to mental illness, and even if there's a physical caustive influence between being gay and having mental illness, it's a specious argument.

Many populations are more suscetible to certain forms of illness, after all, and for phsyically causitive agents. Say, certain black populations are more susceptible to sickle cell aenemia, for instance. Now, I don't know much about the context of the argument, but for instance if they were arguing that this is a reason homosexuality is bad, that makes no more sense than if we say we shouldn't have black people because they have a higher instance of some diseases. It's a reason to have better mental health intervention for homosexuals in the most extreme case, and maybe just an argument we should be more accepting.

[Superman]

Interesting piece of trivia for you. As most know, Freud is considered to be the father of psychiatry, and this is what he had to say about the subject:

"Homosexuality is assuredly no advantage, but it is nothing to be ashamed of, no vice, no degradation, it cannot be classified as an illness."

- Letter to an American mother's plea to cure her son's homosexuality (1935)

Too bad his successors didn't listen to him until much later.

I've got some research data on this I'll dig up for you.

[Kitsune]

If you find anything, let me know?

[Alyrium Denryle]

Got thrown something stumps me a bit. Now since around the 1960s (I believe), homosexuality has not been considered a mental illness.

I was given the argument that those who are homosexual have a high degree of mental illness. There is also the link to this report as evidence of it.

My thoughts is that the treatment of homosexuals often create mental illness but don't know if that is a proper argument.

Any help which anyone can give?

God you are lucky I am here.

Huge percentages of gay teenagers are subjected to trauma and abuse by their peers, and older individuals.

In a recent study conducted in New York State, 78% of the sampled gay/bisexual youth reported experiencing verbal abuse. 11% reported physical abuse, and 9% reported sexual abuse. These averages are heavily skewed toward males with 15% of males compared to 7% of females reporting physical abuse by their peers, and 14% of males reporting sexual abuse compared to 5% of females. I have not told many people this, but in the 9th grade I was assaulted with a soda bottle in the lunch line, someone assaulted my rectum with it, thankfully I had pants on...

Males reported being victimized my males (94%) and females reported being victimized by both males (56%) and females (44%)

In the following I will directly site the study.

"All youth reported being upset by their first SOV(Sexual Orientation Violence) experience, with 73% reporting being very or extremely upset. Examples of verbal SOV experiences and when they occurred were (a) Male, at 10: “My mom was screaming at me, calling me a ‘fucking faggot’ and ‘cocksucker.’ I just cried and cried.” (b) Female, at
17: “Mom ‘went off’ on me, called me a ‘dyke.’” (c) Female, at 18: “A 50-year-old man, a religious fanatic, called me evil, and said that me and my girlfriend were ‘nasty,’ and called our relationship an abomination.” (Grossman et al 2006)

"Most youth (89%) reported being very or extremely upset at the first occurrence. Examples of physical SOV were (a) Male, at 17: “I was a wrestler, and another wrestler didn’t like my being gay, so he beat me with a stick and broke my nose.” (b) Female,
at 8: “I was beaten up by older girls. They dragged me along the floor, banged my head on the monkey-bars, kicked me, and punched my stomach.” (c) Male, at 16: “Some older boys threw a basketball in my face because I wore a pink shirt." " (Grossman et al 2006)

All sexual attackers were males

"Sexual SOV started at 13.5 years old for youth reporting it, with events occurring earlier for males (13) than females (16). All reported sexual SOV acts were committed by males. Of males and females who experienced sexual SOV, 27% were victimized by friends, 26% by acquaintances, and 15% by strangers. The locations most frequently reported where the first SOV occurred were: 34% at home and 13% in public settings. Nearly all youth (97%) reported being very or extremely upset by this first sexual
SOV experience. Examples of sexual SOV were (a) Female, at 18: “I was in a conversation at a party and mentioned that I was bi. One of the guys took me into a private room and forced me to have sex.” (b) Male, at 9: “My stepfather raped me a lot and tried to fist me. I bled so much I had to go to the ER and get 16 stitches.” (c) Male, at 16: “I told an attendant in a hospital that I was gay, and he forced me to give him a blowjob.”" (Grossman et al 2006)

9% of GLB youth meet the criteria for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.

A review of multiple studies also indicates a problem.

25-50% Bisexual and Lesbian girls reported being sexually abused, compared to 10-25% of heterosexual girls.

The rate of sexual abuse of boys is well under 10% however 25% of bisexual males and 20% of gay males in these surveys reported being sexually assaulted. When the numbers are age-adjusted non-heterosexual girls are twice as likely to report being sexually assaulted or abused, while non-heterosexual boys are 5-10 times more likely. (Saewyc et al 2006)

Are you angry yet? Because I am frothing at the mouth. I can cite study after study, and multipel case files. Gay and Bisexual youth are more likely to be verbally [hysically, and sexually abused by their family and peers than straight youth. They are more likely to be kicked out of their homes (18-21% of homeless youth identify as GLBT and considering they make up only 2-6% of the population at large...), they are more likely to be addicted to drugs, they are more likely to become prostitutes and they are MANY times more likely to attempt suicide or have suicidal ideation. I am going to come right out and say it. This is fucking disgusting. These kids have been failed in every conceivable way. Their parents abuse or reject them, and I don't know what is worse. The schools and teachers fail these kids because they either aren't there to stop the abuse or don't care. The entire safety net system we have in place to help these kids has failed them and they are left crying in the dark with nowhere to go and no one to turn to. On the streets it is even worse. The statistics are so unfathomably sad I wont show them, just reference the study and post a summary.

Whitbeck, Les B., Chen, Xiaojin, Hoyt, Dan R., Tyler, Kimberly A., Johnson, Kurt D. "Mental Disorder, Subsistence Strategies, and Victimization Among Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexual Homeless and Runaway Adolescents". Journal of Sex Research: Vol 41 issue 4 Nov 2004

They are more likely to engage in sexual survival strategies (IE exchanging sex for money, food, or shelter) they are more likely to be sexually abused by adult "caretakers" and they are more likely to be physically abused while on the streets. They are more likely to meet the criteria for depression, PTSD, and Suicidal Ideation. Half report at least one suicide attempt (compared to a third of heterosexual homeless and runaway teens)

On the flip side, they were less likely than heterosexuals to meet the criteria for conduct disorders, and gay males were less likely to abuse alcohol and drugs than heterosexual runaways and homeless. I wish I could say the same for lesbians but their likelihood of abusing drugs and alcohol is almost double that of heterosexual females.

Saewyc, E, et al. "Hazards of Stigma: The Sexual and Physical Abuse of Gay, Lesbian,and Bisexual Adolescents in the United States and Canada." Child Welfare; 2006, Vol. 85 Issue 2, p195-213.

Grossman A, et al. "Childhood Gender Atypicality, Victimization,and PTSD Among Lesbian,
Gay, and Bisexual Youth" Journal of Interpersonal Violence; 2006, Vol. 21 No. 11, p1462-1482


Gee, I wonder, are gay people going to be more likely to abuse drugs and alcohol? Will they be more likely to suffer from depression? You tell me.

[PeZook]

The argument typically goes like this: Homosexuality is a mental illness, so we have to cure those guys from it, rather than say it's normal.

I had a guy claim to me once that the "constant" talk in the media about gay rights and pride parades and all will only cause "tormented gays to be forced to accept their tendencies as normal,and cause depression and frustration". Because, you know - it's bad to accept yourself and your sexuality. Because there is a tiny teeny chance that you are a homosexual because your father abused you when you were young. No matter how tenous the connection.

Here's a little fun factoid: there's a not-insignificant number of heterosexual males who engaged in sexual intercourse with their male siblings during puberty, but are now firmly (well, as firmly as you can be) straight.

I guess their tendencies are a result of them being forced by society to accept a heterosexual role, and thus lead to depression and anxiety, and thus they should be treated and "made gay" again?

Yeah...you will never see that argument made anywhere, because it's always a thinly-veiled attempt at making gays look evil and abnormal and subhuman and tormented. Again.

[Superman]

The argument typically goes like this: Homosexuality is a mental illness, so we have to cure those guys from it, rather than say it's normal.

Homosexuality has not been classified as a mental illness by the American Psychiatric Association since 1973. Who exactly are you talking about? Christians?

[The Duchess of Zeon]

The argument typically goes like this: Homosexuality is a mental illness, so we have to cure those guys from it, rather than say it's normal.

Homosexuality has not been classified as a mental illness by the American Psychiatric Association since 1973. Who exactly are you talking about? Christians?

PeZook lives in Poland, which is extremely conservative about homosexuality, having been turned into the Pope's private reserve the moment the communist government fell.

[PeZook]

Who exactly are you talking about? Christians?

Who else? You know, those guys who scream and harp on about how it was a homosexual plot to remove their "condition" from the list.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Who exactly are you talking about? Christians?

Who else? You know, those guys who scream and harp on about how it was a homosexual plot to remove their "condition" from the list.

Well, it kinda was. The GayPA... a small group of gay psychologists lead the charge. They were motivated by their own issues, but then started noticing horrible methodology used by their peers...

[Kanastrous]

When I was in High School I had a math teacher who constantly called me "twink." And I had zero idea what that was supposed to mean, I even asked him straight out in front of the class, and he brushed me off. Didn't find out what the word was probably intended to mean, until much later.

Last time I happened by my old High School, I found that this guy is now the Principal.

Great.

[Alyrium Denryle]

When I was in High School I had a math teacher who constantly called me "twink." And I had zero idea what that was supposed to mean, I even asked him straight out in front of the class, and he brushed me off. Didn't find out what the word was probably intended to mean, until much later.

Last time I happened by my old High School, I found that this guy is now the Principal.

Great.

Wow... just...wow. That is special. This means one of two things. He was a bear(and a hebephile), and thought you attractive, or he was a homophobic sack of crap and thought you were gay. Lovely.

[Kanastrous]

When I was in High School I had a math teacher who constantly called me "twink." And I had zero idea what that was supposed to mean, I even asked him straight out in front of the class, and he brushed me off. Didn't find out what the word was probably intended to mean, until much later.

Last time I happened by my old High School, I found that this guy is now the Principal.

Great.

Wow... just...wow. That is special. This means one of two things. He was a bear(and a hebephile), and thought you attractive, or he was a homophobic sack of crap and thought you were gay. Lovely.

Well...that had occurred to me. He was a big, broad, hulking guy with a mustache who coached a couple of the boys' sports teams...so there's a fit with the stereotype, anyway.

I wish that I had understood what he was saying, at the time, because I would have been more than eager to take it to the school board- although I don't necessarily know that in 1983-84 they would have cared.

[Kanastrous]

ghetto edit - I believe ephebophilia is the more precise term for someone attracted to people in late adolescence, while hebephilia is an attraction to people who are just entering puberty.

But I imagine there could be some overlap.

[Alyrium Denryle]

When I was in High School I had a math teacher who constantly called me "twink." And I had zero idea what that was supposed to mean, I even asked him straight out in front of the class, and he brushed me off. Didn't find out what the word was probably intended to mean, until much later.

Last time I happened by my old High School, I found that this guy is now the Principal.

Great.

Wow... just...wow. That is special. This means one of two things. He was a bear(and a hebephile), and thought you attractive, or he was a homophobic sack of crap and thought you were gay. Lovely.

Well...that had occurred to me. He was a big, broad, hulking guy with a mustache who coached a couple of the boys' sports teams...so there's a fit with the stereotype, anyway.

I wish that I had understood what he was saying, at the time, because I would have been more than eager to take it to the school board- although I don't necessarily know that in 1983-84 they would have cared.

If they think it is the bear option, they would have... not so much with just insulting you.

On the other hand, slights to your sexual orientation really shouldn't bother you too much. I mean, if he was gay, he thought you were cute, that is certainly something. (One of my close friends, I met because I flat out asked if he wanted to get dinner, he was straight, much to my chagrin, but he found it flattering and was happy to talk after the initial awkwardness. We are pretty close now...)

If he was straight and messing with you, it is because he thought you a threat to his reproductive success. Homophobia probably evolved as a way of reducing the reproductive success of bisexuals, who have certain advantages over straight men. They tend to be more experienced sexually, and are better at hiding indiscretions this makes them better short-term mates and prime pickings for females when engaging in infidelity, forcing other men to raise their kids. The male version of cuckoos.

[Alyrium Denryle]

ghetto edit - I believe ephebophilia is the more precise term for someone attracted to people in late adolescence, while hebephilia is an attraction to people who are just entering puberty.

But I imagine there could be some overlap.

Indeed you are right.

[Ryan Thunder]

How do you define homophobia, and why do you apply the name to folks who hate gays? Why not just call them 'bigots' (a much more appropriate term) and be done with it?

After all, wouldn't 'homophobia' (strictly speaking) be 'unreasonable fear of sameness'?

[General Zod]

How do you define homophobia, and why do you apply the name to folks who hate gays? Why not just call them 'bigots' (a much more appropriate term) and be done with it?

"Bigot" is a very generic term, and not precise by any means. Homophobes and racists are both bigots, but a homophobe is not necessarily racist and vice versa.

[Alyrium Denryle]

How do you define homophobia, and why do you apply the name to folks who hate gays? Why not just call them 'bigots' (a much more appropriate term) and be done with it?

After all, wouldn't 'homophobia' (strictly speaking) be 'unreasonable fear of sameness'?

strictly speaking yes, However..shorthand...

[Eleas]

How do you define homophobia, and why do you apply the name to folks who hate gays? Why not just call them 'bigots' (a much more appropriate term) and be done with it?

After all, wouldn't 'homophobia' (strictly speaking) be 'unreasonable fear of sameness'?

Traditionally, terms used to deal with persecution are, as Alyrium put it, shorthand. In some cases, they are technically more or less entirely incorrect, such as the term "feminist", which in practical terms means "proponent of gender equality" rather than "proponent of women."

[Kitsune]

Traditionally, terms used to deal with persecution are, as Alyrium put it, shorthand. In some cases, they are technically more or less entirely incorrect, such as the term "feminist", which in practical terms means "proponent of gender equality" rather than "proponent of women."

That is not how most hard line conservatives especially religious ones see it....

[Alyrium Denryle]

Traditionally, terms used to deal with persecution are, as Alyrium put it, shorthand. In some cases, they are technically more or less entirely incorrect, such as the term "feminist", which in practical terms means "proponent of gender equality" rather than "proponent of women."

That is not how most hard line conservatives especially religious ones see it....

that is because they are idiots.

[Justforfun000]

that is because they are idiots.

LOL. Indeed. We can't use fundamentalist definition's of actual observable phenomena, (ergo - science), as gospel. No pun intended. They have a preconceived notion that sexual aberration of any kind that is not hetero, performed within marriage and practiced as a procreative measure in it's basic expression is immoral. But that's nothing more then a fucking belief. PROVE it. If it's really so bad, then demonstrate how it actually deserves such a judgement. If it's all circular logic and appeals to authority, then their so called argument is worthless.