WH40K 5th Edition fluff(spoilers)

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Re: WH40K 5th Edition fluff(spoilers)

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Imperial Overlord wrote: Most commerce doesn't use the Astronomican so it won't be directly negatively impacted. The damage to the Imperium's ability to respond quickly to attacks and political instability in the fringe could fuck it, but I think that's generally survivable. The Eastern Fringe has always been outside the range of the Astronomican and the Imperium has still maintained a presence there. It will, however, definitely make things harder in the those regions.
Except that the Chraitst stuff as mentioned in Dark HEresy as I recall only works at the sector/subsector level, and again then takes a huge length of time for travelling. Inter-sector commerce WOULD be impacted, at the very least in terms of timeframe (the astropathic network would be used, but would still take much longer, and commerce would have to adjust accordingly to that differnce. When you're talking about places like Hive Worlds and Forge worlds, that difference could be crucial and/or deadly.)

The only exception I can think of would be commerce via warp gates/portals, but I dont think those are exactly consistent.

The military side (the loss of the astronomicon cutting speed/response times and mobility) will also prove problematic for the Chartists, as chartist-style travel is somewhat more predictable (and thus prone to ambush, Chaos wolfpack-style attacks, etc.) And Rebellions would be *much* harder to suppress.
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The dark world of black death is known as "Birmingham".
HAHAHAHAH!!! That's the best thing I've read all day. I had to drive through that shitheap once and I've never forgiven God. I must say, the Nova Terra thing has me interested. Presumably, it's based on the Roman Empire when they had an east and west empire, I'm wondering if they had a persistent secular state holdover from the old days in one and the imperial cult in the other?
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Re: WH40K 5th Edition fluff(spoilers)

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Lonestar wrote:
First and foremost- GW has specifically laid down that the Tau live 40-50 years as a norm and then experience a brief old age and die. It is emphasized repeatedly that the Tau are a driven and anxious race and this has been the reason for their dynamic expansion- there is no allusion to any other cause. It also mentions that it has been noted that certain Tau are known to attain much older years "As if their lifespans are linked to the manifest destiny of the race" Interesting right?
That probably goes to explain their low numbers even per planet (relative to humanity), though IMHO that makes them only somewhat more useful than clone troopers in term so long-term utility (at least relative to a regular human, who can live at least as long in most horrible conditions and longer in more civilised ones.. hell FAR longer with med tech..)

There might be some natural biological purpose behind it (biology not being my strong point I couldn't guess what might lead to a shorter than human timespan) but the way its described almost certainly lends credence to the idea the Tau have been artificially "improved."
-The Third Sphere is no longer just an invasion through the northern 'gate' of the Empire (between Perdus and Gulf) but is now in all directions stretching out from a number of Septs. This is shattering as we no longer have a definitive path that the expansion is going- as it seems to be everywhere. The arrows indicate that they are making ground in the Rift! All fronts are being expanded and it even seems, although it doesn't' state it, that a tendril of the expansion is nearing the Enclaves- maybe we'll see something out of this since we were told Aun'shi went out there. Anyway, this push is being called the WARS OF EXPANSION (with Shadowsun in the north with the largest force).
While this leads to them probably conquering more worlds, I doubt we're goign to see a staggering leap up in their size from this. They conquered some 20 worlds or so in the Third Sphere expansion, and maye a couple dozen more during subsequent Imperial troubles (snatching up more worlds from the Imperium) but I doubt they more than doubled or tripled their total size by this. It'll help some in the sense they might be stronger than your average Imperial Sector in terms of military, but they'd still be stomped flat by the Imperium (or even the Segmentum bordering on the tau.) if they wanted. Which again, is why the AStronomican is probably weakening.. it makes concentrating agianst the tau far harder.
-Hive Fleet Colossus is the Tyranid fleet that has been engaging the Tau Empire- it seems that its tendrils into the Empire were defeated by Shadowsun. (you can tell by the maps they show- its pretty detailed)
I doubt it was an entire Hive Fleet, unless this Hive Fleet is alot smaller than what the Imperium typically faces. i still bet the Imperium (or unaligned aliens) are bearing the brunt of the attack.
-NEW XV info- seems like there are a XV17 and XV26 model of suit that are built for maneuverability rather than firepower, meanwhile the XV 86 is called a 'integrated interface armor' which are the space capable model- don't know what this could mean, perhaps it is a suit that uses another suit?
Those are probably the battlesuits mentioned in Star of Damocles that were deployed to attack an Imperial warship (strike cruiser I vaguely recall). Glorified boarding armour, kinda like Imperial Spacetroopers.
-Notable event: The Cytherian Annexation: Jungle world invaded by a large Bork'an force with some Fal'shian. Pathfinders were inserted five months before the invasion while landing zones were cleared by stealth suits. "Hammer head Armor Elimination Groups" are used to hit Imperial armor. Shas'O Alo'rra (cold Shadow (new word) Is in his first role as a 'O and is untested, he leads a daring attack as the Tau are being bogged down by jungle combat and proves his worth. There is still resistance on the world from Catachan 26th 51st 56th.
We're not (yet) provided with enough information to really judge this.
Things to know about the new timeline- well, the Imperium is literally falling apart and is now in the Age of the fall, or something, it seems that after the Age of Apostacy there were huge purgings for thousands of years.
Which, it seems, is being exaggerated, and it rather ignores the nature of the Imperium itself (huge, already rather decentralized, and highly redundant. If rather cumbersome.) But its size/sluggishness goes both ways.
The Space Marines are being directed to take more of a direct control over worlds that are rebelling while the Macharian worlds had a recent and massive rebellion where it took 100 space marine chapters to quell.
Which just means the High Lords are delegating out more authority/autonomy - this is hardly surprising given that the Imperium already was rather hard to micromanage to begin with.
Meanwhile, Space Marines are being swayed by Huron Blackheart who is turning loyal marines to his piratical cause- they say its amazing how many loyal marines turn but this could be because the Imperium is falling apart.
Space Marines turning traitor is hardly unprecedented. Its only probelmatical when they do it in LARGE numbers. The question here is just how many are turning traitor.
In addition, the AdMech have discovered irreperable damage to the Golden Throne while the Astronomicon is dimming to such a degree that contact can no longer be maintained with distant worlds like Macragge.
Already mentioned and clarified. AT worst case, this still only means that a fraction of the Imperium's total worlds are now lost, and the actual "loss" is debatable given the astropathic network (slower travle/commuication perhaps, but still communication) If the Space Marines are also taking a more direct hand in things, the loss is bound to be even further mitigated.
So, obviously they are setting the Imperium up to be far more rickety while(greatly, it seems) increasing the Tau's overall strength. I thought Hive Fleet Colossus were those centaurs though?
Er, what? The Imperium, even assuming my generous calcs before, still has many millions (if not tens of millions) of worlds, with much of that still towards the well developed (and defended) core of the Imperium (Segmentum Solar). The Tau, even in your most wildest fantasies, can't have more than a thousand worlds or so, and a huge chunk of those will still be newly conquered/colonized and still developing.

And the Imperium is no more "rickety" now than it was - its ALWAYS been that way - its inherent in the difficulty of warp travel and astropathic communications. The offsetting fact to that ricketyness is the Imeprium's sheer size and decentralized nature, things which prevent it from collapsing all at once (which would really only happen were the Emperor to cease existing as he is and/or the Astronomican failing utterly.)

What we have here is the Imperium merely becoming far more unwieldy to manage and much more decentralized than it already was.. and an Imperium that is withdrawing in on itself somewhat. Its hardly on the verge of collapse.
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Post by Connor MacLeod »

legio mortis wrote:I've found another synopsis of the background, and it doesn't seem so doom n' gloom after all.
Comments following:
Robert Frazer from Relicnews Forums wrote:Thanks to indulgent staff at my local Hobby Centre judiciously accepting that I was only planning out my new army's background in advance of the release (which is true... just the whole truth...), I had the opportunity to spend some time with the new rulebook this afternoon and naturally roved over the background section.

Everyone who's filling sandbags, stockpiling tins of Spam and bombing up magazines in preparation for the coming cataclysm that's going to sweep over and smash through the bleaguered Imperium like the Mongol hordes over Asia - stand down from action stations. The actuality isn't nearly as bad as the distilled alarmism being ground by the rumour mill is making out.
I wasn't worried about this at all.
Most of the new fluff introduced into the rulebook isn't related to the fall of the Imperium at all, but rather her rise. One of the problems with Warhammer 40,000's background is that, while deep, it's nonetheless still quite patchy and sporadic - ten thousand years is an awful lot of time to fill, and you could dump a hundred swimming pools of dye off the coast and you wouldn't colour the whole ocean. Previously we had the Horus Heresy, followed by a yawing gulf of utter impregnable inscrutability, then the Age of Apostasy, then another few vague millenia of "heer bei dragunz", then the Macharian Crusade and the Fourth Quadrant Rebellion at the beginning of .M41, then another deep dark puddle of unknown centuries until we reach Hive Fleet Behemoth and the Sabbat Worlds and Damocles Crusades and some semblance of a continuous timeline... and even then nine-tenths of the galaxy's events are crammed into the last two decades . While the brush is still painted quite broadly - by necessity, as the background remains only one section of a larger book - much is dedicated to colouring in the white, blank, empty space in the Imperium's history with the lashings of black, grimy, streaking mucky suffering that we cherish so much.
Which would be welcome, actually. I'd just about given up on the potential for any real creativity from them.
The peril of the "Time of Ending" can also be exaggerated. The tagline of Warhammer 40,00 has been from its earliest days "In the grim darkness of the far future there is only war", and this particular epoch has been conceived in order to hold true to that, emphasising by means of a spicing of disaster and desperation how Mankind is beset on all sides - I doubt that it's a coincidence that the timeline of the "Time of Ending" included in the background section opens in 744.M41, one year before the First Tyrannic War and the aforementioned opening of the continuous history of the modern Imperium; the "Time of Ending" is very much just the here and the now, as it's always been in all past editions. The struggle is just beginning, and the Imperium isn't yet in unarrestable decline; the game is in no danger of falling into an endgame scenario. The announcement of damage to the Golden Throne mentioned in previous posts is there, but it's not a great tempestuous and dramatic declaration that throws everything into alarm and confusion. It's given the barest minimum of focus - buried as a brief passing note in the timeline and not so much as mentioned anywhere else. It's plain to see that Games Workshop is leaving a plot hook to hang an expansion from if need be, but it has no bearing on the galaxy as it stands today. It remains business as usual.
Again, this doesn't seem surprising.
Each race has its own two-page section explaining their general theme and motivation, accompanied by a further two or three pages describing a short campaign which demonstrates their racial character and way of war but is entirely self-contained and has no bearing on the wider balance of power.
Hopefully it will contain some new interesting tidbits rather than rehashing old stuff. I was rather disappointed in the minimal fluff in 4th edition.
-For nine centuries over .M34, Segmentum Pacificus was independent from the wider Imperium and took policy from the Ur-Council of Nova Terra, which existed in opposition to the Adeptus Ministorum. This time of two empires is known as the "Nova Terra Interregnum".
Now this would be interesting to look at, especially how it occured and how they managed to retain autonomy for so long, since a Segmentum is not exactly a "minor" sector, and the Imperium's decentralized nature should help to prevent such things from happening.

It will also be interesting to see how the Imperium ended this without devastating the entire Segmentum.
-With reference to the decline of the Imperium in the "Time of Ending", it is said that more worlds are being given over to the direct control of the Space Marines for the sake of stability, but no explanation of this situation or further information is provided.
Which as I noted makes sense, and is merely the Imperium delegating more authority to its component parts - a logical course given what is happening with the Astronomican. I imagine this isn't much worse than allocating Warmasters or such, or the sector level commands taking charge of things as a locla crisis erupts or grows. And giving it to Space Marines is probably sensible because they're far more fanatical and loyal (and harder to corrupt) than a normal human is (but, not incorruptible - this leaves there potential for some dangerous new twists on the CSM front.)

-Space is rife with the vicious and the selfish, and minor alien races are no different in their bellicose temperaments: Despite their aspirations to harmony, the Tau Empire has to fight to subdue a vassal race more often than not.
We've known this for awhile now. We know that the tau even Exterminatus worlds that prove troublesome (stated flat out in the Codex.) And even their "harmonious" conquests tend to involve some degrree of subertfuge or manipulation via trade and diplomacy.
-There's an interesting revision of the quality of the Necron consciousness. Apparently Necrons first emerge from the conversion process entirely sentient and self-aware - repeated phasing-out and rebuilding gradually corrupts and degrades their memory engrams until they're left as mindless automatons. Necron Lords benefit from advanced phase-streams and reconstruction suites which avoid this problem.
Make sense. It also helps explain some of the inconsistencies in Necron behaviour (why some seem more oblivious/machine like than others.)
-Necron Lords also benefit from a great deal of autonomy - a lot of the raids Necrons have been launching are not actually in the direct service of the C'tan at all, but Lords literally venting their spleen and working out their boundless rage against the offensive nature of life and existence by means of punitive slaughter.

This is something that has been hinted at in Apocalypse when they outlined the command and operational structure of Necron forces/tomb worlds (which also hinted at varying "levels" of Necron Lords.) What IS new and still interesting is that not all active Necrons are under C'tan control. It will be interesting to see whether they will willingly submit to someone like hte Deceiver or Nightbringer or whether we might see renegade Necrons. I imagine the Necron Lords "venting spleen" are the higher elvel ones (gold or Platinum level, as outlined in Apocalypse.)
-Serenedipitously, a couple of new campaigns mentioned in the Imperial history section actually tie in to topics that have recently been discussed right here at Backstory and Fluff. The thread on weapons of mass destruction can be augmented by the rebellion of the Occlusiad: a faction of renegade tech-priests led by the prescient "Blind King", they held that all fleshkind was insulting to the Machine God and led a ten-year campaign of destruction from 550.M37; one of their tactics, using STC lore, was to drive stars to supernovae.
will be interesting to read, but I wouldn't neccesarily start touting the Imperium having star-busting weaponry yet, either, since we don't hear the circumstances or mechanism behind it. And this also assumes we can take "supernova" at face value, ,since that term (like black hole) can be frequently abused in sci fi.
For the thread on extra-galactic travel, the very thing is performed during the "Last Voyage of Admiral Usurs": Usurs is "cast down" by the High Lords for a reason the background doesn't specify; he's a powerful figure, and so rather than risk the sympathy revolts that might occur if he's executed, in 265.M33 Usurs and his flotilla are pointed beyond the galactic fringe and told not to come back. Usurs sends messages back for two decades reporting about new worlds discovered and conquered for the Imperium (although none are ever visited by the Imperium herself) before falling silent.
That has interesting implications for the ability of Imperial Naval ships to operate independently, (at least if they can find supplies and resources.. I doubt they lasted two decades on stuff they were carrying with them.)
-After the Age of Apostasy comes the Age of Redemption - long millenia where Makind expurgates its sins by the atonement of good works: constant labour to expand. One of the reasons why the Imperium is in relatively poor shape nowadays is not necessarily a relentless dirge of doleful defeats, but by ironically being too successful - these protracted crusades inflicted considerable overstretch.
That wouldn't be surprising either, at least on the more "frontier" worlds. We've known long that the Imperium tends to have a fair bit of "wilderness space" even within its own demains that remains unexplored or uncolonized/conquered. This just merely means the Imperium is far more spread out than it needs to be.
-There are three new and separate Hive Fleets entering the galaxy: Hydra from the south, and Moloch & Jormungadr from the north-east. A map also includes Hive Fleet Colossus, but if you refer to your Codex Tyranids you'll understand that this is its own separate issue (the retconning of the Zoats out of the fluff) and not part of the new wave portended by the aforementioned three.
Sounds like the Tyranids are gearing up to become a bigger threat once again. I wonder if the Imperium will actually start the recommended mobilization needed to fight them outlined in one of the Tyranid codexes (something like a 500% increase in military power in at least two segmentums) And there are sitll probably all manner of splinter fleets remaining as well..
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Post by Vympel »

Personally the technological stagnation of the Imperium has always stretched credibility for me - the notion that they've got no idea how to build anything that's significantly new or improved, or even to reproduce the technology of 10,000 years ago, is just too much for me - as is the idea that they can just keep their existing pool of equipment from whittling away to nothing for that long. I would've been hoping they'd find some way to address this in a satisfactory way in new material.
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Post by Bob the Gunslinger »

Vympel wrote:Personally the technological stagnation of the Imperium has always stretched credibility for me - the notion that they've got no idea how to build anything that's significantly new or improved, or even to reproduce the technology of 10,000 years ago, is just too much for me - as is the idea that they can just keep their existing pool of equipment from whittling away to nothing for that long. I would've been hoping they'd find some way to address this in a satisfactory way in new material.
Some of the fluff actually contradicts this notion of constant stagnation. For one thing, the Admech and the Marines are both expanding their knowledge through research as well as the study of archeotech (just look at all the new weapons they've developed over the years). For another, books like the Ciaphas Cain and Gaunt's Ghosts series demonstrate that there is a much higher incidence of advanced technology than portrayed in the rule book fluff, including stuff that the Imperium is clearly manufacturing even though it supposedly can't, such as advanced ships, hover vehicles, plasma weapons, etc.
The majority of Imperium worlds are civilized worlds, many of which are highly technological. There are also many, many forge worlds (I forget the numbers from Connor MacLeod's thread, but they were impressive). The rest of the Imperium's worlds probably are in a state of technological regression since they are farther away from Terra and the Admech doesn't share its secrets. The Imperium is canonically over-stretched after a period of furious expansion; of course there's going to be some regression on the boondock planets as they lose resources and technologies that have been stretched thin, but it doesn't mean that the heart of the Imperium is seriously affected.
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Post by Dark Primus »

I doubt the Tau will expand any time soon, in the new Ork codex says the Tau Empire is fighting for its very survivle against an Ork Waagh. They will be locked in combat for a while.
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Post by NecronLord »

I have read from the book.

Almost everything above can be confirmed. The necron background is particularly interesting, because it's almost a complete change. The C'tan aren't even mentioned directly. It's all necrons, now.

There's a few bits about some necron tombs having been destroyed or pillaged over the countless millennia they've slept.

The necrons used to have an interstellar relay communications network, but this is now partly damaged, and other races have cannibalised it (which makes one wonder if they have access to the communications technology therein, or they've just moved in and sit there without comprehending its true function) in some places. Nonetheless, the necron map displays necron activity spreading across the galaxy along certain routes between major hubs such as Naogeddon - and even extending to the very edge of the map, beyond the Imperium's borders.

There is explicit and repeated mention of the necrons being able to forge new bodies for those who are completely destroyed, which puts paid nicely to the fallacious idea espoused by some fans that the Necrons can't replace their losses.

Some tombs have accrued so much damage that the remaining senior Lord is wholly devoted to tasks such as resource gathering and repair, resulting in necron activity being entirely predictable - on some planets, necron attacks are viewed as a training exercise by the locals, as they are so regular, you can set your watch by them. Or infrequent necron missions to the surface for 'resources' become the seeds of local myth.

Fully awakened tomb worlds, of which the map shows about six in the galaxy, though there may be more, are home to hundreds of lords; factoring in the colour levels in the Apocalypse book. It's worth noting that in questioning the writer (to my shame, I forget who it was) of that piece of Apocalypse background at Games Day last year, I was told the conception of those lords was also that some may be other machines, as well as the actual necron-form lord itself. For example, starships, or the world itself (amusingly, the inspiration for the different 'colours' of necron lord was apparently the old red>black>gold rank scheme of daleks in Doctor Who) might be 'lords.' This might explain the discrepancy between sapient necrontyr lords and programmed ones above that simply repeat the same actions time and time again.

Some necron lords are programmed to oversee the unearthing of buried starships, too.

As well as some necron lords destroying millions of members of other races simply out of disgust for their nature (orks are probably the most likely targets of this, I'd imagine, though nothing fleshy is safe - incidentally, the phrase is "conquest and destruction" implying that perhaps some of these necron lords seek to conquer other races, rather than destroy them) some have become insane, and regard themselves as reincarnations of ancient gods (this is the closest it comes to directly referencing the C'tan, though that hardly means they've been dropped from continuity - but see below...) and build themselves new, progressively more grandiose forms; presumably the gigantic necron lord with the eyebeams from the Kal Jerico comics is of this type.

This also means we can rationalise some anomalous appearances of 'C'tan' most especially the odious Dawn of War: Ascension book - the 'C'tan' on that world was presumably a necron lord with delusions of grandeur. Possibly the one in 'Last Stand of the Firebrands' also, though that one was far more convincing as a C'tan.

Given that the new racial background pages are supposedly "Background from the point of view of each of the races reveals their own struggles and place within the Warhammer 40,000 universe." one can assume that the more mythological tone of the necron codex is in error about the necrons immediately becoming mindless slaves by the perfidious design of the Deceiver, possibly the result of Old One propaganda to discourage defection.

The Eldar bit is also interesting; various sites are kept under observation by the Eldar. Amongst these are Naogeddon, Pavonis, Mars and Lyriax (the eldar {and possibly necrontyr} name for the necron Dyson Sphere) though obviously, observing and blockading are different things. The Imperium has been to all but Lyriax successfully, after all.

All the Exodite worlds on the map are on the very fringes of the galaxy, which may be the result of forward planning by their founders; or the ones in the galaxy might simply have been stolen by other races.

Althansar has not only escaped the warp storms in the Eye, but it has, perhaps through the genius of Maugun Ra, travelled ten thousand years or so in the last year; it is now further from the Eye than Mars.

The Imperium's history is fleshed out too. At some point in M33, the Imperium found a cruiser that had been lost in the warp for twenty thousand years. The Tech-priests inducing stars to become supernovae is mentioned, also.
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Post by Cykeisme »

There's no doubt that even completely destroyed Necrons have their "soul" data beamed out/recovered from backups, but the question is whether the total size of their army is limited to the number of Necrontyr souls that exist.
We posited the possibility that one soul can be copied to several bodies, either a limited number of times (i.e. one squad per soul) or even unlimited times.
Of course, even this is not the case and one soul cannot form more than one warrior body at a time, it's entirely possible that the size of the fully restored Necron army may be larger than sufficient to dominate the galaxy (they did fight a galaxy-spanning war before, after all).
NecronLord wrote:At some point in M33, the Imperium found a cruiser that had been lost in the warp for twenty thousand years.
Fascinating.. a relic from the distant, forgotten past. Does the thirteenth millenium fall within the Dark Age of Technology, or is it already the Age of Strife?
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Post by Bob the Gunslinger »

First of all, the Necrons are canonically stated to have conquered "galaxies", so their war with the Old Ones was probably much larger in scope than anything happening in M40.

Second, M13 is actually before the Dark Age of Technology, when mankind was still mostly limited to the Solar system. In fact, the timeline in the Horus Heresy books indicate that mankind did not even have warp travel at that time, so one wonders how the ship even made it into the warp in the first place.
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Post by Imperial Overlord »

The cruiser in question could be of alien manufacture or have passed through a warp gate or a weak spot between the warp and real space.
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Post by Cykeisme »

That's certainly interesting.
I'm not sure what exactly the book says, but from NecronLord's post here, that the Imperium "found a cruiser that had been lost in the warp for twenty thousand years", "lost" seems to indicate that it was lost by humans. Is my assumption too tenous?

Also, considering it's a "cruiser", that implies a reasonably advanced ship. At the very least, past the experimental warp travel stage. Could this possibly be a sign of impending retcon of pre-Imperium history?

Dark Primus wrote:I doubt the Tau will expand any time soon, in the new Ork codex says the Tau Empire is fighting for its very survivle against an Ork Waagh. They will be locked in combat for a while.
This WAAAGH they're facing is probably of lesser scale, but out of curiosity, how do you guys think the Tau would hold up against an Armageddon-level situation? That is, repeated WAAAGHs, with lulls of similar periods of time in between to rebuild and rearm.
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Post by Falkenhayn »

Bob the Gunslinger wrote: Second, M13 is actually before the Dark Age of Technology, when mankind was still mostly limited to the Solar system. In fact, the timeline in the Horus Heresy books indicate that mankind did not even have warp travel at that time, so one wonders how the ship even made it into the warp in the first place.
I'd assume that the IoM has a lot of experience, via Spacehulks and the associated salvage operations, with the effects of Warpcraft on at least Human constructed vessels. It may well be the case that the ship was time dilated through 20K years worth of warp travel in a much smaller timeframe. In other words, standing Einsteinian physics pretty much on its head.

This fits all the hyperbole we know about the Warp, and is certainly far from the most spectacular or bizarre thing accomplished through warp power that we've come across.
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Post by NecronLord »

There's also (this is also in the latest WD) a 'red hole' that 'spews time into the galaxy' on the far side. Maybe this is why 999.M41 seems to be going on forever. :lol:
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Post by Swindle1984 »

My knowledge of 40k is limited strictly to what others have described to me and what I've read in these threads, so pardon my ignorance.

Haven't LOTS of Imperium ships disappeared into the warp for centuries or millennia at a time, only to pop back out again one day and give the local humans a nice chunk of ancient technology? How often is the crew still alive onboard these ships? How do they adjust to suddenly being in the future and things have gone to crap even worse than when they departed?
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Post by Cykeisme »

Falkenhayn wrote:This fits all the hyperbole we know about the Warp, and is certainly far from the most spectacular or bizarre thing accomplished through warp power that we've come across.
Perhaps it is notable simply because of the sheer magnitude of the time passed since its recovery.
That, and (in a related fact) the age from which the ship originates. As was stated, it comes from a time supposedly before Man began warp travel.
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Post by UCBooties »

Lonestar wrote:As for Amberly's memoirs from the M42...well..if BL didn't even mention here in the Inquisition encyclopedia they had I'm guessing that GW doesn't give two shits about the memoirs.
Weren't Amberly's Memiors the Author's way of saying "fuck you" to GW's idiotic rule regarding the time-line and constraints they put on their authors?
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Post by Maxentius »

Swindle1984 wrote:My knowledge of 40k is limited strictly to what others have described to me and what I've read in these threads, so pardon my ignorance.

Haven't LOTS of Imperium ships disappeared into the warp for centuries or millennia at a time, only to pop back out again one day and give the local humans a nice chunk of ancient technology? How often is the crew still alive onboard these ships? How do they adjust to suddenly being in the future and things have gone to crap even worse than when they departed?
I honestly can't recall any instances of such a thing happening outside of the one cited. Extra months, maybe even a year or two, sure -- but centuries? I'm not too sure about that. Though granted, I've been a bit out of touch with 40k fluff since the end of 3rd Edition, so someone with a more current basis in it would probably be able to give you a more definitive answer.
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Post by NecronLord »

There's a few instances of long lost ships. But 20,000 years appears to be the record. Presumably it disappeared in a warp storm or through a warp gate, rather than possessing a warp drive.
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Post by The Yosemite Bear »

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Post by andrewgpaul »

Does it specify a human ship, or could it just be an alien vessel of equivalent tonnage? Perhaps there's some sort of psychic equivalent of radioisotope dating that can tell you how long a ship's been in the Empyrean.
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Post by Connor MacLeod »

NecronLord wrote:There's a few instances of long lost ships. But 20,000 years appears to be the record. Presumably it disappeared in a warp storm or through a warp gate, rather than possessing a warp drive.
Or, it may be an experiment in an attempt to circumvent warp storms that failed or went wrong. As I recall frrom the BFG magazine coverage, there was one "experimental" ship that had some sort of prow mounted "ether cannon/warp cannon" designed in an effort to tunnel through warp storms and allow travel (kind of like a FTL icebreaker ship, I suppose)

Or, perhaps the place the ship originatedf rom had a temporary "calm" that allowed temporary warp travel (it may have gotten lost/wiped out either on the way or in trying to return to the materium.)
The necrons used to have an interstellar relay communications network, but this is now partly damaged, and other races have cannibalised it (which makes one wonder if they have access to the communications technology therein, or they've just moved in and sit there without comprehending its true function) in some places. Nonetheless, the necron map displays necron activity spreading across the galaxy along certain routes between major hubs such as Naogeddon - and even extending to the very edge of the map, beyond the Imperium's borders.
From what I've read in Apocalypse, I believe the Necrons have an interstellar comm network as well as some power-transfer network (As well as teleportation, and possibly detection.)

anyhow, if the other races HAVE access to necron comm technology in some form, this may explain the occasional instances of "non atsropathic" fTL communication or detection seen in the novels (the ones that are obviously out of universe author errors that is :P) If so, then they're still useless beyond system-scale ranges (light hours/light days range at most.) Though even then some of those are at least partly warp based.

What I CAN seeing this lead to, however, is the TAu developing FTL comms of their own, which would go a long way to curbing one of the limits of expanding their empire.
There is explicit and repeated mention of the necrons being able to forge new bodies for those who are completely destroyed, which puts paid nicely to the fallacious idea espoused by some fans that the Necrons can't replace their losses.
There were people who believed that? I've never doubted it. In fact, I'm one of those who has believed they possibly could be building more. (Resource gathering seems to be a big partt of their current activities.)

This might explain the discrepancy between sapient necrontyr lords and programmed ones above that simply repeat the same actions time and time again.
I thought it was pretty much the same as the odd behavioru you see with the "line" Necron troops - some seem to act rather intelligent/sapient, while others seem little more than unaware automatons.
Almost everything above can be confirmed. The necron background is particularly interesting, because it's almost a complete change. The C'tan aren't even mentioned directly. It's all necrons, now.
Sounds like a depowering of the Necrons, given how implied powerful the C'tan could be. Then again, maybe they still exist in some form (see below)
This also means we can rationalise some anomalous appearances of 'C'tan' most especially the odious Dawn of War: Ascension book - the 'C'tan' on that world was presumably a necron lord with delusions of grandeur. Possibly the one in 'Last Stand of the Firebrands' also, though that one was far more convincing as a C'tan.
Interesting idea. I imagine that might also apply to that one White Dwarf artticle where the Imperium destrtoyed a tomb world -IIRC there was a supposed 'C'Tan" there.

This might also lead to other possibilities. Perhaps the C'tan as they existed (disregarding possible mythological implications) have all long since died out, and what we are left with are just very advanced/powerful/high end versions of what the Necrontyr themeselves are (sophisticated robots/mind imprints/space undead, whatever.) Or perhaps they're just very powerful./evolved Necron Lords impersonating them (or possessed by elements of them - thanks to GRaham McNeill we know the Nightbringer could "taint" others with his influence..)
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Post by Bob the Gunslinger »

Just a thought on the ship from M13... I wonder if there are Men of Iron still functioning on that ship. That would be pretty interesting.
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Post by Connor MacLeod »

Cykeisme wrote:
Dark Primus wrote:I doubt the Tau will expand any time soon, in the new Ork codex says the Tau Empire is fighting for its very survivle against an Ork Waagh. They will be locked in combat for a while.
This WAAAGH they're facing is probably of lesser scale, but out of curiosity, how do you guys think the Tau would hold up against an Armageddon-level situation? That is, repeated WAAAGHs, with lulls of similar periods of time in between to rebuild and rearm.
Well, lets put it this waY:

As per Kill Team, a 13 billion Hive World is considered to be "more humans" on a single world than the Tau have in an entire Sept.

Even better, the Taros Campiagn book gave indications that the deployment on Taros was a significant deployment of forces for the Tau - 26 some warships, and 80-100 Hunter Cadres (some 10-20,000 troops, plus auxiliaries IIRC.) - Whereas, for the Imperium, Taros was considered a very minor campaign (not worth even bothering to secure good resupply or adequate forces!)

It puts things in an interesting light, I daresay.
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Post by The Yosemite Bear »

I say we should get that god of death into action, and start slapping down those forces of the great enemy, and then show those space commies, why they should fear clowns. :twisted:

I mean they shouldn't be too traumatized by a bunch of Harlies should they?

oh and I play Saim Hann-ious so this should be a warning, despite the fact that we can't fire on the move very much anymore....
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