What is you definition of Christian

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2008-06-17 08:14pm

I use the dictionary definition of Christianity:

1. of, pertaining to, or derived from Jesus Christ or His teachings: a Christian faith.
2. of, pertaining to, believing in, or belonging to the religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ: Spain is a Christian country.
3. of or pertaining to Christians: many Christian deaths in the Crusades.
4. exhibiting a spirit proper to a follower of Jesus Christ; Christlike: She displayed true Christian charity.
5. decent; respectable: They gave him a good Christian burial.
6. human; not brutal; humane: Such behavior isn't Christian.
–noun
7. a person who believes in Jesus Christ; adherent of Christianity.
8. a person who exemplifies in his or her life the teachings of Christ: He died like a true Christian.
9. a member of any of certain Protestant churches, as the Disciples of Christ and the Plymouth Brethren.
10. the hero of Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress.
11. a male given name.

Basically, do people here consider Gnostics who used Jesus in their Mythology to be Christians. If not, tell me in a way which I can understand

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2008-06-17 08:45pm

Obviously, the dictionary definition encompasses more meanings than are normally applicable in a religious debate. I would have to think that the baseline "Christian" is simply one who believes that Jesus Christ was divine. This means he worships Christ, therefore he's a Christian.

Of course, we all know that many Christians develop an incredibly narrow definition of "Christian" whenever they want to disavow any association with bad Christians. Usually, they'll say that a Christian has to follow all the teachings of Jesus in order to be a Christian ... even though the person saying this proudly ignores teachings like "give away your wealth to the poor" or "turn the other cheek".

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2008-06-17 09:34pm

How about people who consider Jesus to be a "Messenger" and not actually the son of God?

Civil War Man · Post by **Civil War Man** » 2008-06-17 09:44pm

Kitsune wrote:How about people who consider Jesus to be a "Messenger" and not actually the son of God?

Islam and some segments of Judaism believe this. Christianity is by definition the belief that Jesus was the Messiah and as of the Council of Nicea includes Jesus being the Son of God in the official dogma.

If the person in question does not believe in the Son of God thing, then they are at most an unconventional Christian. If they don't believe Jesus is the Messiah, then they are flat out not Christian by definition.

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2008-06-17 10:03pm

I will buy "Unconventional"

Oni Koneko Damien · Post by **Oni Koneko Damien** » 2008-06-17 10:08pm

Kitsune wrote:How about people who consider Jesus to be a "Messenger" and not actually the son of God?

I believe that's quite adequately ruled out by the whole "Believe Jesus Christ was divine" part.

Followers of Islam tend to hold the view that Jesus was indeed a prophet, but no more or less special than any of the others.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2008-06-18 12:12am

Someone believing in the messianic and god-nature of Christ.

hongi · Post by **hongi** » 2008-06-18 03:07am

Civil War Man wrote:
Kitsune wrote:How about people who consider Jesus to be a "Messenger" and not actually the son of God?
Islam and some segments of Judaism believe this. Christianity is by definition the belief that Jesus was the Messiah and as of the Council of Nicea includes Jesus being the Son of God in the official dogma.

Islam states that Jesus is the Messiah, which throws a wrench into the works.

Kanastrous · Post by **Kanastrous** » 2008-06-18 10:34am

hongi wrote:
Civil War Man wrote:
Kitsune wrote:How about people who consider Jesus to be a "Messenger" and not actually the son of God?
Islam and some segments of Judaism believe this. Christianity is by definition the belief that Jesus was the Messiah and as of the Council of Nicea includes Jesus being the Son of God in the official dogma.
Islam states that Jesus is the Messiah, which throws a wrench into the works.

Islam regards Jesus as a prophet.

'Messiah' is specifically a Jewish theological concept that got co-opted and distorted by early Christians. Muslims tend to place Jesus in a sequence with Abraham, Moses, etc, as a prophet of God.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2008-06-18 10:41am

Someone who believes that accepting/confessing/believing Christ as savior is how you get into heaven.

Anything beyond that is inter-schism quibbling to me.

RIPP_n_WIPE · Post by **RIPP_n_WIPE** » 2008-06-18 10:44am

hongi wrote:
Civil War Man wrote:
Kitsune wrote:How about people who consider Jesus to be a "Messenger" and not actually the son of God?
Islam and some segments of Judaism believe this. Christianity is by definition the belief that Jesus was the Messiah and as of the Council of Nicea includes Jesus being the Son of God in the official dogma.
Islam states that Jesus is the Messiah, which throws a wrench into the works.

If you could find the Surah that mentions that I'd love to read it. I just picked up a Quran as a way of getting to know other religions.

GrandMasterTerwynn · Post by **GrandMasterTerwynn** » 2008-06-18 12:37pm

RIPP_n_WIPE wrote:
hongi wrote:
Civil War Man wrote: Islam and some segments of Judaism believe this. Christianity is by definition the belief that Jesus was the Messiah and as of the Council of Nicea includes Jesus being the Son of God in the official dogma.
Islam states that Jesus is the Messiah, which throws a wrench into the works.
If you could find the Surah that mentions that I'd love to read it. I just picked up a Quran as a way of getting to know other religions.

Jesus is referred to as "Messiah" in the Quran. The meaning Muslims associate with the word, however, is not the same one Christians associate with the word. To the Muslims, it means that he is merely the anointed one, who comes by means of blessings (owing to the nature of his conception.) To the Muslims he's not the Son of God any more than Adam was, both having been willed into being through divine decree.

To them, he is merely the son of Mary and a messenger of Allah, whose miracles were all acts of Allah. In fact, believing that Jesus was both divine, and the Son of God is considered to be perverse:

"...and the Christians say 'The Messiah is the Son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah Himself fighteth against them. How perverse are they!

They have taken as lords beside Allah their rabbis and their monks and the Messiah son of Mary, when they were bidden to worship only One God. There is no God save Him. Be He Glorified from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him)!"

(Taken from Surah 9:30 and 9:31 from The Skeptic's Annotated Quran)

sketerpot · Post by **sketerpot** » 2008-06-19 01:00pm

Someone who is doctrinally similar to a bunch of other people who identify as Christians. That seems to pretty well cover it in conventional usage, and since it's all made up anyway I don't see much point in getting much more specific than that.

Post by **Surlethe** » 2008-06-19 01:14pm

If you want something a little narrower, you could use the Nicene Creed (ignoring the little contention over the filioque) as baseline Christian beliefs. The extent to which a person's beliefs depart from it is the extent to which he is not Christian.

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2008-06-19 02:59pm

I tend to be a lumper and prefer to consider a wide variety of beliefs to be Christian.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2008-06-19 07:49pm

Someone who:

a) Believes that a personal god was responsible for the creation of the universe

and

b) Believes that said god had a son who was incarnated as a man named Jesus and travelled around a section of the Middle East for a while and said things about stuff.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2008-06-19 07:50pm

Ghetto edit:

Also, c) Believes that both the god and Jesus were pretty okay guys.

I think that just about covers the basics.

Post by **Kuja** » 2008-06-19 08:01pm

A Chistian is most easily defined as any person who believes that Jesus Chirst was the literal son of God.

Everything else after that is window dressing.

Ravencrow · Post by **Ravencrow** » 2008-06-19 11:13pm

A Christian is one who believes that Jesus is the son of God, sent by God to come down to earth to die for our sins, who died on the cross and was risen, and that believing and submitting to Jesus is the only way by which one can get into Heaven.

sketerpot · Post by **sketerpot** » 2008-06-19 11:45pm

Ravencrow wrote:A Christian is one who believes that Jesus is the son of God, sent by God to come down to earth to die for our sins, who died on the cross and was risen, and that believing and submitting to Jesus is the only way by which one can get into Heaven.

Well, that disqualifies most of the Christians I know. Nice work, Scotsman.

Post by **Surlethe** » 2008-06-19 11:49pm

sketerpot wrote:
Ravencrow wrote:A Christian is one who believes that Jesus is the son of God, sent by God to come down to earth to die for our sins, who died on the cross and was risen, and that believing and submitting to Jesus is the only way by which one can get into Heaven.
Well, that disqualifies most of the Christians I know. Nice work, Scotsman.

Really? What kind of Christian doesn't believe Jesus died for sins so people could go to heaven?

Mayabird · Post by **Mayabird** » 2008-06-19 11:59pm

My definition includes two groups:

1) People who believe that Jesus was divine in some shape, form, or fashion, and
2) People who call themselves Christians whether or not they know a lick of theology or what their supposed beliefs are supposed to entail or do any of the rituals.

sketerpot · Post by **sketerpot** » 2008-06-20 12:30am

Surlethe wrote:
sketerpot wrote:
Ravencrow wrote:A Christian is one who believes that Jesus is the son of God, sent by God to come down to earth to die for our sins, who died on the cross and was risen, and that believing and submitting to Jesus is the only way by which one can get into Heaven.
Well, that disqualifies most of the Christians I know. Nice work, Scotsman.
Really? What kind of Christian doesn't believe Jesus died for sins so people could go to heaven?

That's not what Ravenclaw said. The definition I was responding to included some mildly controversial points:

1. Jesus is the son of God, sent down to earth by God. There's so much quibbling over this. Was Jesus literally descended from God? Was he just a really important prophet? What was the deal with the virgin birth story that backs up the son-of-God angle?

2. Resurrection. Many of the more liberal Christians treat this as metaphorical.

3. Believing in and submitting to Jesus is the only way to get to heaven. Most of the non-fundies I've talked to about this will, when pressed, admit that they don't actually believe it. They want God to give non-Christians some justice, so they believe that he does.

The thing about Jesus dying for sins so people could go to heaven is less controversial among Christians, but the question of what happens to people who never heard the Good News tends to make people believe that Jesus is not the only path to heaven -- just the only proper path to Salvation, whatever that means.

Most Christian beliefs are incoherent. That's why I favor hazy definitions based on how the word is typically used.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2008-06-20 12:31am

Surlethe wrote:Really? What kind of Christian doesn't believe Jesus died for sins so people could go to heaven?

I know quite a few Christians who believe that good people go to heaven regardless of their religion. I think that's the main sticking point with a lot of the definitions presented here.

TithonusSyndrome · Post by **TithonusSyndrome** » 2008-06-20 12:46am

Cultural factors, especially in milquetoast white-collar suburbia, have reduced Christianity to "the religion that all the other white people in our neighborhood profess to hold that has the guy with the beard in it" in practice. In the south, this might come out more like "th' religion all good upstandin' white 'Merican folk has that tells us to hate the gays and ay-rabs." Neither has anything to do with any theology or supernaturalism.

Perhaps the term "cultural Christian" defines them better. If the whole concept of a meme is to be completely carried over from genetics, then Darwin's insight on features "neither helpful nor injurious" or whatever would definitely apply to mild-mannered neutered suburban memes like religion has become. A practicing Christian, a lapsed Christian and a cultural Christian are all three different things in my opinion.