Chaos corruption/infestation/whatever limits

[Lancer]

The Tau are not "unusually resistant" to corruption. They have a minimal presence in the warp, even when compared to a normal human, which means that any efforts at actively subverting the Tau for sake of gaining a following won't give enough returns to be worth it.

If Chaos can passively corrupt the Tau, then so be it, but the Tau fighting style precludes the possibility of prolonged exposure to Chaos. They're more liable to withdraw until they can assemble overwhelming force, rather than get bogged down in a sustanined conflict.

[Connor MacLeod]

involuntary corruption depends on alot of factors, including luck, the strength of one's psychic connection to the Warp, the presence/absence of contributing factors (corrupted objects, the presence of an untouchable, etc.) This is the kind of thing that psykers routinely face that I am talking about (And what means they need regulating or purging.)

This is a big problem for 40K humans because they have a growing chance of developing latent psychic abilities and they've produced psykers for millenia. Whereas a weakly-psychic race like the Tau seem to have little problem with this particular aspect of corruption (at least directly.. their auxiliaries do have psykers, and that risk remains of course.) Humans in, say, ST or SW, lacking anything resulting of Warp-tapping "psykers" in any noticible numbers (if at all), probably would be more along the lines of the Tau. (as I mentioned before, I don't think Psykers are a naturally occuring phenomenon, at least not for in racecs like humanity or the Orks or Eldar...)

There is, of course, conscious desires to turn to Chaos, and the possibility of being "infected" by some tainted object. The same factors sitll apply, but in diffrent ways. A person can willingly serve Chaos and thus let themselves be turned. or have their bodies infected by contact with something already corrupted.. but I suspect the effects would be greatly reduced. If Palpy turned to Chaos, for example, its unlikely he'd be able to get as much power as some human from the 40K galaxy could - he simply lacks the psychic connection to strongly draw on the warp. As far as tainted objects.... That prboably depends on how the corruption comes about - physically corruptint the matter of the body probably isn't hard, but once corrupted its connection will sitll be weak (And its possible weakened connections may extend to which galaxy is being occupied... so the effects may also slow or dampent, at least until the Chaotic nature of the 40K's warp spreads to the other galaxies.. another big unknown.)

Note that one need not be "tainted" directly by Chaos (some warp tapping, horridly mutated monstrosity) to be "corrupted." Chaos knows well the value of threats, blackmail, bribery, seduction, etc. And the warp connection issue will have NO bearing on that. If the Chaos Gods promised Palpatine certain things (A Legion or more of CSMs for his personal use, for example) he could still be considered "corrupted" to their cause, although their means of controlling would be less secure (And more physical.)

[Peptuck]

The book is annoyingly ambigious on this, actually. The planet in question does have an atmosphere apparently and been suffering from warp-based heresy for some time; the mutant population was rising up under the command of a Chaos warlord who was preparing to invade.

The Guard unit (whose name I cannot for the life of me remember, but came from a low-light world where everyone fought in tunnels) starts showing signs of Chaos infection almost the minute they move into areas affected by Chaos itself. On the other hand, there's a unit of Guardsmen from a different, feral world who are employed as trackers and scouts for the main force, but appear to remain uninfected by the Warp.

The Guardsmen in question though definitely were not shown wearing NBC gear. The exact nature of the enemy they fought is not specified, though they apparently included the standard range of Chaos mooks, including mutants, cultists, and Chaos Marines.

I see. So there is nothing obvious to rule out a physical mechanism of corruption, then.

The difference between the two units is interesting. Was one of them relatively closer to some "focus" of Chaos energy, such as an idol or temple? Did one have more contact with the enemy than the other? Were there significant differences in training or genetics? Any information can help us narrow down the range of factors that might affect Chaos corruption.

Annoyingly, not much was specified. I don't even have the book on hand anymore to make a more in-depth analysis, but I do recall that the scouts from the feral planet were not directly involved in combat; the Guardsmen who were infected were the ones who went into battle against the Chaos forces directly. The scouts, naturally, were the first ones to locate the Chaos idols and other signs of presence, but they were spooked by them and avoided them, while the regular Guard troops (IIRC) destroyed them and moved on.

However, in one of the engagements, the Guard force directly assaulted a Chaos artifact or temple (I forgot which) and it after this battle that the Inquisition agents embedded in their ranks noted a serious growth in the signs of warp heresy among the troops, especially in the troops that were closest to the Chaos whatsit.

[SirNitram]

Isn't there some fluff that states that high emotional states tie one tighter to the Warp? Or is it old Eldar fluff that got retconned?

If it's still valid, the Imperial Military is largely safe. They're goddamn cogs in the machine, especially the ones who will be assigned to 'containment'(Stormtroopers). Stormtroopers will also have a level of protection from physical contamination from air-filters and entirely encapsulating armor.

[Maxentius]

Isn't there some fluff that states that high emotional states tie one tighter to the Warp? Or is it old Eldar fluff that got retconned?

If it's still valid, the Imperial Military is largely safe. They're goddamn cogs in the machine, especially the ones who will be assigned to 'containment'(Stormtroopers). Stormtroopers will also have a level of protection from physical contamination from air-filters and entirely encapsulating armor.

I don't believe that was ever retconned. In fact, one of the big things about the Eldar is that they apparently experience emotion more acutely; the way their society is structured places a high emphasis on occupational passion, etc. Which was a big reason why he Fall happened, societal decadence aside.

[SirNitram]

Isn't there some fluff that states that high emotional states tie one tighter to the Warp? Or is it old Eldar fluff that got retconned?

If it's still valid, the Imperial Military is largely safe. They're goddamn cogs in the machine, especially the ones who will be assigned to 'containment'(Stormtroopers). Stormtroopers will also have a level of protection from physical contamination from air-filters and entirely encapsulating armor.

I don't believe that was ever retconned. In fact, one of the big things about the Eldar is that they apparently experience emotion more acutely; the way their society is structured places a high emphasis on occupational passion, etc. Which was a big reason why he Fall happened, societal decadence aside.

Then I'd say that of, say, SW, there's exactly one group that's in danger of corruption: The Sith. The Dark Side is raw emotion. Jedi, interacting constantly with the Force but cleaving to the Light will be too disciplined, and most just don't have the levels of passion needed.

That being said, if one assumes Palpatine's powers are at a minimum, multi-galactic in scope(And possibly multi-universal), maintaining the psychic link holding his troops minds together could lead to a back-door into his mind. This assumes that Palpatine does not notice the intrusion, obliterate it, or simply transcend because you've just mixed Warp energies with the devotion of trillions upon trillions of beings and he pulls a GEOM.

[Vendetta]

So it works somewhat akin to the Dark Side of Star Wars, then? One serious act of aggression, passion et cetera would not be instantaneous and permanent corruption, but rather lower your resistance to future subversion?

Yeah, though unlike the Dark Side, chaos can actually take form and come and look for you. The people with the biggest problems are the ones with the most power already. I can't imagine Emperor Palpatine, who is pretty much a Chaos Sorcerer anyway, not being interested in the whisperings of Tzeentch.

[Maxentius]

So it works somewhat akin to the Dark Side of Star Wars, then? One serious act of aggression, passion et cetera would not be instantaneous and permanent corruption, but rather lower your resistance to future subversion?

Yeah, though unlike the Dark Side, chaos can actually take form and come and look for you. The people with the biggest problems are the ones with the most power already. I can't imagine Emperor Palpatine, who is pretty much a Chaos Sorcerer anyway, not being interested in the whisperings of Tzeentch.

It could be more than that. Warp entities, daemons in particular, are drawn to the psychic imprint that strong emotions leave on the immaterium. If we consider the Dark Side to likewise be raw emotion, then Palpatine's utilization of his pan-galactic powers may inadvertently lead every demon that can sense it towards him. Whether or not he can deal with them, however, is another question entirely.

[Lord of the Abyss]

Is there any non-40K force which would be able to successfully resist, if not ignore, the effects of warp subversion or whatever the hell it is?

The Culture Minds, I suspect would be pretty resistant. They already have a subversion attack they need to deal with in the form of effectors; and as I recall they resist that by repairing the alterations faster than they are done. Which for the Culture is fast indeed. So it seems to me that the only kind of mental corruption they couldn't handle would be something that overwhelmed them in one burst or corrupted them physically first.

And corrupting them physically would also be hard, I'd think, since they could detect any subtle alterations due to contamination and just displace the corrupted components before anything can spread. And they don't have blood to spread the contamination either. And again, they could do all this with great speed.

[Nyrath]

Warp Tainting is the result of exposure to the Warp where the user's emotions are permitted to run wild and warp real-space.

So are you saying that emotion-less ST Vulcans would be immune?

[Lord Revan]

Warp Tainting is the result of exposure to the Warp where the user's emotions are permitted to run wild and warp real-space.

So are you saying that emotion-less ST Vulcans would be immune?

Vulcans aren't emetionless, they suppress them (which could make them even more likely to fall).

[Bob the Gunslinger]

Heck, the backstory of the Eldar is very similar to that of the Vulcans. Ever since their emotional indulgence cost the species its homeworlds, the Eldar must control their passions with the Eldar path, lest they bubble over and become the naughty, naughty Dark Eldar, who give in to their passions. The biggest difference is that the Romulans have massive shortages in leather and kink compared to the Dark Eldar.

[Vendetta]

Ever since their emotional indulgence cost the species its homeworlds, the Eldar must control their passions with the Eldar path, lest they bubble over and become the naughty, naughty Dark Eldar, who give in to their passions.

Not quite. Eldar have to control their passions because if they don't Slaanesh will come and eat them. Dark Eldar give in to complete excess to try and convince Slaanesh that they provide more entertainment alive than as snacks.

[Peptuck]

Ever since their emotional indulgence cost the species its homeworlds, the Eldar must control their passions with the Eldar path, lest they bubble over and become the naughty, naughty Dark Eldar, who give in to their passions.

Not quite. Eldar have to control their passions because if they don't Slaanesh will come and eat them. Dark Eldar give in to complete excess to try and convince Slaanesh that they provide more entertainment alive than as snacks.

The biggest problem the Eldar have is that they're so much more powerful in terms of natural psychic abilities, combined with their perceptions and emotions being literally a thousand times more potent and intense and sensitive than that of a human being. Powerful latent psychic powers + extreme emotions = Skittles for Slaanesh.

[Xon]

So are you saying that emotion-less ST Vulcans would be immune?

The Vulcan's have tightly controlled emotions, they arent actually emotionless. They require extreme mental disipline to the detriment of everything else be because they experiance emotions to greater extremes than ST Humans.

A race like the Asurans(machines with human-like minds) or the Alterans/Ancients are much better examples of races who are actually have emotions which run very cool by nature and do not overpower them without requiring mental disicpline to control.

[Connor MacLeod]

Bear in midn again that what kind of corruption occurs is going to depend heavily on the exact mechanism. You won't get many (if any) spontaneous invasions of the mind from the warp because most non-40K universes have no 40K psykers (or an easily identifiable equivalent that meshes up), so their connection is going to be assumed to be weak. (liekwise, the Chaos Gods won't do much for empowering them.)

That does not include, however, being infected via some Chaos-imbued object or being (some daemon sword, some idol infused with chaos power, etc.) - since we know inanimate matter CAN be touched/mutated/corrupted/animated. Psychic manipulation is alsos till possible (Even the Tau can be psychically manipulated.)

And, of course, there are simple greed/bribery/etc. even with a weak connection to the warp, Chaos can still exploit those.

The main thing here is that the effects will be less inevitable/predictable, possibly in some cases even slower.. and harder for Chaos to directly influence or control (at least without some intermediary - ie chaos artifact.) and they'll be harder to "boost".

In other wrods, you don't have to worry about Force sensitivity in STar Wars leading to greater Chaos corruption, but a Jedi or Sith could still be infected by the touch of a Daemon sword, mind controlled/raped by a Daemon, etc.

And, in a larger scope, there will be far less warp/realspace interaction of the sort that is common in 40K - there are fewer "portals" of access, and those will be much more minimal.. so I suspect random mutation is also less of a problem (which also means random acts of Chaos are also going to be less.)

And, the threats that Chaos DOEs possess are no better/worse than say, the problems of a Genestealer infection, Rebellious or seditious activity, etc.

[Morilore]

The short and sweet answer to Uraniun's question: Chaos-anything requires a vector. Either a 40k psyker, or a piece of machinery designed to pierce the warp, or a specific region of space where the warp is closer to reality, or some object or person who has already been touched or possessed or tainted. You don't need to be superhumanly resistant to the warp, you just need to stay away from it.

[Teleros]

Is there any non-40K force which would be able to successfully resist, if not ignore, the effects of warp subversion or whatever the hell it is?

The Culture Minds, I suspect would be pretty resistant.

I don't know... Tzeentch & Slaanesh in particular would likely find plenty of followers amongst the people of the Culture, and possibly some of the Minds too. I mean, 90-odd percent of the Culture's population is dedicated to having fun . And once a few Minds succumb & start using their new tentacled effectors on everyone else... well, I hope Special Circumstances is keeping an eye on things.

[Uraniun235]

What could the Chaos Gods offer that the Culture could not?

[NecronLord]

What could the Chaos Gods offer that the Culture could not?

Absolutely nothing. Nothing at all.

<Chaos> Well, if you work for decades and decades, and eat enough babies to be pleasing to the gods, and then work for centuries and centuries, you might be ruler of a demon world in the Eye...

<Culturenik> Or I could sublime, and have such power right now. And as an added bonus, it's not limited to one region of space.

[The Spartan]

You won't get many (if any) spontaneous invasions of the mind from the warp because most non-40K universes have no 40K psykers (or an easily identifiable equivalent that meshes up), so their connection is going to be assumed to be weak. (liekwise, the Chaos Gods won't do much for empowering them.)

So where would a psychic blank fit in all of this? Uncorruptable except for very specific and/or deliberate causes? I can't imagine a demon weapon being too thrilled about being held by a blank.

Side question: is psychic blankness able to be passed from parent to child? Like, if two blanks had a child together, would that child be one, or more likely to be one? Reading about Eisenhorn's blank organization, I forget the name right now, had me wondering about that.

[Vendetta]

What could the Chaos Gods offer that the Culture could not?

Well, it would be a new fad that could amuse the Culture for a while, but eventually it would be a bit old hat, a few die hards now and again, you know...

[Imperial Overlord]

You won't get many (if any) spontaneous invasions of the mind from the warp because most non-40K universes have no 40K psykers (or an easily identifiable equivalent that meshes up), so their connection is going to be assumed to be weak. (liekwise, the Chaos Gods won't do much for empowering them.)

So where would a psychic blank fit in all of this? Uncorruptable except for very specific and/or deliberate causes? I can't imagine a demon weapon being too thrilled about being held by a blank.

Being a warp disruption zone, they're extremely resistant to being influenced by the warp and they have no sweet tasty soul full of wonderful power and sustenance to offer up to a daemonic master. Since psykers don't like being touched by Untouchables, I imagine a daemon weapon wouldn't like it either.

Side question: is psychic blankness able to be passed from parent to child? Like, if two blanks had a child together, would that child be one, or more likely to be one? Reading about Eisenhorn's blank organization, I forget the name right now, had me wondering about that.

Apparently its a genetic condition so it could be passed from parent to child.

[Lord Revan]

btw an intresting question, would humans from other verses be blanks or just like normal humans who aren't psykers?

[Peptuck]

btw an intresting question, would humans from other verses be blanks or just like normal humans who aren't psykers?

Normal humans, I suspect, but there might be blanks mixed in.

Eisenhorn presented a theory that psykers are humans that are especially capable at utilizing electrical fields or something like that, and blanks are simply the other end of that extreme, which is why they cause a natural revulsion effect in ordinary humans. I'll need to dig out Malleus and have another look at his exact theory in that novel, but Ershaddon's psyker powers are temporarily disabled by a major EMP burst, which Eisenhorn uses based on that theory.

Similarly, in Duty Calls, the cloaked psyker assassin shorts out Cain's vox link by the electrical interference generated as a side-effect of his cloak.

Presumably, null rods operate on the same principle that blanks or the EMP burst do by affecting electrical fields over a limited area.