High Surveillance States and Tyranny

[Zor]

Possibly a bit of a Hypothetical, but not enough really to constitute a RAR! In my opinion.

One thing that is common in the creation of Dystopias is that of a Tyrannical State in which everything and everyone is under constant opservation by the state and any deviant behavior or thing that puts their loyalty into doubt is almost instantly and ruthlessly snuffed out. Now some people link the two together, if you have a state in which everything is being observed, it must be by very nature, an evil tyrannical state. But would this be so? There have had been plenty of Tyrannical States in the past that had very little idea what was going on among the general population, but still managed to be evil Tyranical states (Middle Ages, for example). So i was wondering, would a high level of Surveillence by the government naturally lead a society towards Tyranny?

Lets say we have a society in which people. People have mandatory tracking implants installed in their skin that keep track of their location (as well as working as to keep general track of their health, such as heart rate and such), there were cameras and audio sensors linked up to a central building in areas such as work places, malls, in streets, plazas, Phones were tapped and monitored. But never the less, it was a stable secular democracy with Freedom of Religion, Speech, thought, mobility and all such fundamental freedoms inshrined in the constitution, pointless bigotry racism and Homophobia are generally decried by the population and discredited by the education system and the criminal justice system does not arbirtarally enforce the law, randomly arresting people and it did not have cruel and unusal punishments, just fines, removal of priveleges (such as revoking Driver's licenses for Drunk Driving) and Jail time. Could such a society exist and remain free?

Zor

[K. A. Pital]

Depends on the regulation and measures against abuse of power. If the power structure itself is hardened against abuse, such a society could remain free (by that meaning no abuse towards the citizenry).

Surveillance and tyranny are not requirements for one another. Often modern democracies have far higher levels of surveillance tan Third World shitholes, but I doubt anyone would disagree that the latter are more opressive.

[The Grim Squeaker]

Sounds rather a lot like Europe in a few years .
Just look at the UK today, CCTV's everywhere, easier wiretapping laws, monitoring of your car, proposals to monitor kid's cellphones, etc'.

Surveillance and tyranny are not requirements for one another.

Institutions and the underlying system are what matter, you can have a modern democratic society nanny state that will send a hospital crew after it detects that your heart rate stuttered, and a dictatorial state without even a phone system that will take you out and have you shot for appearing to be disloyal (Who needs evidence anyway in a tyrannical system, you just want it to ferment out opposition and to cement control)

[PeZook]

Most tyrannical societies in human history had little surveillance. Before the XIXth century, for example, most monarchies had plenty of trouble catching simple criminals, yet they could easily become tyrannical withou much effort.

All you need is cruelty and malice.

However, constant surveillance of the population certainly makes it easier for a government to opress their population. Of course, if a government sudendly turned tyrannical, it could introduce opression without much trouble, as long as the army and police were on their side.

For short: it's a complicated question with many factors influencing it, but yes - you can have tight surveillance and liberty at the same time, in the right circumstances and with the right people.

[Shroom Man 777]

Could it not be said that before the XIX century, communications was so slow that it did not require high levels of surveillance to oppress the masses? I'm sure a network of spies and stooges in, say, monarchist France, could've constituted 'high surveillance' during that time. Before the revolutionaries lopped off all their heads, at least.