Ohio, US: Science Teacher burns crosses onto arms

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2008-06-20 08:12pm

It looks more like it was made by a series of dots. So it is in fact dotty. Don't know whether that means he drug it or made a series of dots one after another. What is an electrostatic device anyway? Would it hurt?

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2008-06-20 08:35pm

Ya'll didn't see the earlier stories the Dispatch had on file about this guy.

Students Complain of Burning

There's more stories about it if you look on the sidebars

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2008-06-20 08:43pm

How about tattooing a Darwin fish on both arms

darthbob88 · Post by **darthbob88** » 2008-06-20 10:47pm

General Zod wrote:
darthbob88 wrote:My thoughts: For a cross, that really isn't all that well done. Surely thy God would be less amused by this than by branding it into kid's forearms.

In addition, there is evidence that Mr. Freshwater inappropriately said to his class that science is wrong because the Bible states that homosexuality is a sin and so anyone who is gay chooses to be gay and therefore is a sinner.
Que? "The Earth and all that is in it was created by God, to his specifications." "Homosexuals are such because they choose to be, and thus are sinners." This does not compute, aside from the whole "Gays are bad, therefore science is wrong" that this implies.
You actually find this shocking? Fundie morons like the one in the article tend to equate homosexuality as sinful and try drilling it into the heads of kids as much as they can. It's bog-standard fundie rhetoric.

You misunderstand me, I think. I'm used to the whole "Gays are teh devil" schtick. What perplexes me about this is the implication that either a) God wants certain people to be homosexual, and thus sin against him, or b) gays are not only evil, but sufficiently powerful to act against the Divine Plan. Neither implication seems logical, but they pale in comparison to the other bit of logic there. p = "Bible says 'no homo'", q = "homosexuals choose to be so", and r = "Science is wrong. This dude's logic seems to run

Code: Select all

p
q
therefore r

which puzzles the hell out of me, quite aside from the complete and utter disconnect between these statements. Dammit, he can be a creationist all he likes, but I demand some logic from his arguments!

Davis 51 · Post by **Davis 51** » 2008-06-20 11:01pm

I am puzzled to hell as to why the teacher who left marks on his students has not been fired, never mind his blatant violation of separation of church and state. If something anywhere near the magnitude of this happened here, there would be calls for the teachers head.

Dammit, he can be a creationist all he likes, but I demand some logic from his arguments!

See, there's your problem.

Sidewinder · Post by **Sidewinder** » 2008-06-20 11:10pm

I can understand how the bastard got away with teaching Creationism in class (FAR TOO MANY Christian fundamentalists start families in the US), but BRANDING STUDENTS?! What, the parents didn't think it was wrong to inflict pain upon their children in the name of God? Or did Freshwater simply intimidate his students into silence, students ignorant of their rights?

Kitsune wrote:How about tattooing a Darwin fish on both arms

With few exceptions (tattoos applied to Russian criminals as punishment), people who get tattoos VOLUNTARILY get them. I believe the law requires the recipient to be of the age of consent. I STRONGLY doubt the students Freshwater branded were legally adults.

Duckie · Post by **Duckie** » 2008-06-20 11:23pm

Do these brands go away with time, like scar tissue, or are these kids going to have them forever?

Also, he is a terrible artist, as I wouldn't notice them as cross brands but rather as strange freckles or ugly minor burns.

SpacedTeddyBear · Post by **SpacedTeddyBear** » 2008-06-21 12:01am

Sidewinder wrote: What, the parents didn't think it was wrong to inflict pain upon their children in the name of God? Or did Freshwater simply intimidate his students into silence, students ignorant of their rights?

Because somewhere in the Bible, such actions are probably not only justified, but encouraged.

JBG · Post by **JBG** » 2008-06-21 12:17am

"Because somewhere in the Bible, such actions are probably not only justified, but encouraged"

Hmmm. Don't know about that, Can you provide references to passages in that particular book?

Otherwise, this oxygen thief should be kept away from young minds. The creationist crap is enough but the assaults, speaking as a lawyer, are sickening - yes they are assaults.

Kanastrous · Post by **Kanastrous** » 2008-06-21 12:24am

He's a teacher, and therefore in a position of authority (which some people might regard as more authoritative, than others).

I can't quote verses offhand, but I know that there are passages in the NT that command obedience to those set in authority over you.

Darth Lucifer · Post by **Darth Lucifer** » 2008-06-21 01:52am

Looks like he's getting the boot...

MOUNT VERNON, Ohio — Supporters of John Freshwater stood in a parking lot today asking God to inspire the school board to make the right decision.

Three hours later, the board announced that it intends to fire Freshwater, an eighth-grade science teacher.

Freshwater preached his Christian beliefs about how the world began, discredited evolution and didn't teach the required science curriculum, the board says. He was told to stop teaching creationism and intelligent design, but he continued to do so, an investigation found.

“We're all Christian people. … But rules are rules. You just can't do that in a public school,” said Karen McClure, a Mount Vernon resident who was at yesterday's meeting to support her daughter, school board member Jolene Goetzman.

McClure was one of about 60 people at the meeting in the Mount Vernon Middle School library. Most were Freshwater supporters.

Freshwater burned crosses onto the arms of some of his students and told them that gays are sinners, the school board said in a resolution the five members passed unanimously yesterday after meeting privately to discuss the results of an investigation.

Freshwater's actions became public in April after he refused to remove a Bible from his desk. Today, his attorney, R.Kelly Hamilton, focused on the Bible in characterizing Freshwater as a victim who's being denied his Constitutional right to practice his beliefs.

“They have to tear him up, beat him up, to distract from the issue of the Bible on the desk,” Hamilton said.

Freshwater will request a hearing before the school board to contest the firing, Hamilton said.

After learning of the board's decision, Freshwater called the consultants' report half-truths and said he never veered from the state standards for teaching science.

High-school science teachers told consultants that Freshwater's teachings were undermining science instruction in the district. They reported having to re-teach scientific concepts to students who took Freshwater's class.

Complaints about Freshwater's teachings were made by teachers and people in the community for at least 11 years, a school administrator told consultants. Freshwater has taught eighth-grade science in the district for 21 years.

In April, the school board hired HR On Call Inc. to investigate Freshwater, four months after the parents of a child in his class said he had burned a cross into the child's arm, causing swelling and blistering.

Hamilton called the complaints “fabrications created by a couple of students. … Not a single child has ever been harmed,” he said.

The family of the boy filed a lawsuit last week against Freshwater and district officials, claiming the boy's civil rights were violated.

The branding was done with a machine used to show characteristics of gases.

In Mount Vernon, the public debate over Freshwater is reflected in signs on the road, one saying that if the school board made Freshwater remove his Bible from his classroom, the community would get rid of the school board.

“It saddens us that we're at this point,” said Mary Lou Sinzinger, a Freshwater supporter. “This God-fearing community is one of the reasons we moved here.”

The Columbus Dispatch

Crossroads Inc. · Post by **Crossroads Inc.** » 2008-06-21 03:30am

It sickens me to read the above because in one breath it flatly states Freshwater burned crosses onto the arms of some of his students Not he "might" have, or maybe but he DID.

And what do we get, people turning out in DROVES to support him going on and on about what a good God Fearing man he is for having a BIBLE in a PUBLIC school.

SO there it is... No one seems the LEAST bit concerned about him burning kids.. surely thats a lie by the Liberal Media.. But taking GOD Outta Da SChools? NEVER!!!

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2008-06-21 03:39am

MRDOD wrote:Do these brands go away with time, like scar tissue, or are these kids going to have them forever?

Also, he is a terrible artist, as I wouldn't notice them as cross brands but rather as strange freckles or ugly minor burns.

The story says the marks lasted for 3 weeks, so I'm guessing it wasn't a 'branding' in the traditional sense.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2008-06-21 03:43am

Supporters of John Freshwater stood in a parking lot today asking God to inspire the school board to make the right decision.

Three hours later, the board announced that it intends to fire Freshwater, an eighth-grade science teacher.

Amen! Hallelujah!

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2008-06-21 05:28am

For 11 years

Un-fucking-believable

KlavoHunter · Post by **KlavoHunter** » 2008-06-21 05:30am

Supporters of John Freshwater stood in a parking lot today asking God to inspire the school board to make the right decision.

And if there is a God and if he is Just, he certainly did inspire them to make the right decision - to kick this son of a bitch out.

Seriously, BRANDING people...

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2008-06-21 08:00am

Shouldn't he have had to pass some sort of test to prove he really knew the science which he is teaching?

We had a physics teacher in high school (he always wore a shirt and tie) who had a position in the local Catholic church. He still did not teach "Physics according to God"

The Spartan · Post by **The Spartan** » 2008-06-21 08:09am

Kitsune wrote:Shouldn't he have had to pass some sort of test to prove he really knew the science which he is teaching?

Even if they did, do you think he couldn't pass it by lying?

We had a physics teacher in high school (he always wore a shirt and tie) who had a position in the local Catholic church. He still did not teach "Physics according to God"

This is in Mt. Vernon, Ohio. The majority of Ohio is already fly over country. This is worse. This is fly around country. Did you notice that he had enough support that only one child's family has filed charges? The place is clearly full of fundies who are likely some form of Protestant. This is what's infecting vast swaths of America.

I've also noticed that Catholics in teaching positions tend not to be this idiotic. There are exceptions to that, of course, but that's the trend that I've noticed. Meanwhile the aforementioned fundies are raging assholes...

CaptainZoidberg · Post by **CaptainZoidberg** » 2008-06-21 08:36am

The Spartan wrote: Even if they did, do you think he couldn't pass it by lying?

The questions wouldn't necessarily be things like "Do you believe in evolution?", they could be things like "What is the RNA sequencer [biology stuff]?", to ensure that the person actually has a working knowledge of science.

In that case any new teachers would have to understand a lot of biology and evolution, and from that I'd imagine a good number of them would lose respect for intelligent design.

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2008-06-21 10:31am

The Spartan wrote:I've also noticed that Catholics in teaching positions tend not to be this idiotic. There are exceptions to that, of course, but that's the trend that I've noticed. Meanwhile the aforementioned fundies are raging assholes...

As long as said Catholic is not teaching early Christian history...they seem good at ignoring history in that case.....

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2008-06-21 10:32am

CaptainZoidberg wrote: In that case any new teachers would have to understand a lot of biology and evolution, and from that I'd imagine a good number of them would lose respect for intelligent design.

That was my thoughts as well.....

Actually, it is not belief that I even actually question but that there are very few who actually understand evolution who still support creation.

Kanastrous · Post by **Kanastrous** » 2008-06-21 11:18am

Kitsune wrote:Shouldn't he have had to pass some sort of test to prove he really knew the science which he is teaching?

We had a physics teacher in high school (he always wore a shirt and tie) who had a position in the local Catholic church. He still did not teach "Physics according to God"

I'm pretty sure that I could pass a test for working practitioner-or-better-level knowledge when it comes to Roman Catholicism, or Judaism.

But that doesn't mean that I would for a moment consider communicating the mind-poison to someone else.

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2008-06-21 11:41am

The amount of people with an actual reasonable working knowledge of evolution who still believe in creation is extremely small.

Many skeptics have an excellent grasp of the religion they are debating about. I am not the most knowledgeable here but I bet I could teach sunday school

Kanastrous · Post by **Kanastrous** » 2008-06-21 11:58am

I know I could teach Hebrew School.

My parent fucking saw to that.

Sidewinder · Post by **Sidewinder** » 2008-06-21 02:21pm

I'm utterly disgusted that Freshwater's lawyer and his supporters are trying to frame the school board's decision as "violating Freshwater's freedom of religion" while ignoring the 13 to 14-year-old CHILDREN'S freedom to NOT have crosses PAINFULLY BURNED into their skin! What kind of parents are they? The kind that would support the legalization of genital mutilation as a means of ensuring their children did not become promiscuous?