Doctor Who SE30E09: "Forest of the Dead"

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Episode rating

5
31
67%
4
9
20%
3
3
7%
2
0
No votes
1
3
7%
 
Total votes: 46

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Stark
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Post by Stark »

Ryushikaze wrote:I don't see why people are harping on the 'computer' revelation. We know from the beginning that they're there. Heck, I figured Donna'd been digitized the moment CAL said she was 'saved' last episode. The reason we see Donna's realization of their fate is to see what the revelation is doing to CAL, how having her world shattered is affecting her, and by consequence, shows why activates the self destruct. Yes, it was a little long, but complaining that they wasted time on the obvious reveal when the reveal wasn't the point of the sequence anyways strikes me as silly.
Maybe because it took the Doctor an hour to work it out when it was instantly obvious to me and everyone I know? I mean, this IS the episode when after learning ignoring people is bad and watching shadows is good, they STILL ignore people and don't watch shadows, so maybe the library is in a powerful field of stupid.

It's a shame, really, because if you removed the FUCK GET DONNA OFF MY FUCKING SCREEN and the badly handled super-shadows, the Song business was good. I have no time for her character and don't care about that drama, but I'm objective enough to see that it was quite effective. It was somewhat hilarious that Song was DISAPPEARED by the computer, though, that's funny shit. Almost as funny as her adding shit to the screwdriver without noticing the giant plot device hidden under a cover. :)
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Post by NecronLord »

I think the idea is that the Doctor had added shit to the screwdriver by the time he met up with her.
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Post by Crossroads Inc. »

OK, so having finally seen it.. Im I right in assuming that this ep ended with the Doctor basically forfeiting the largest most comprehensive library in the galaxy to flesh eating shadows, thus assuring it can never be used again?
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Post by 2000AD »

Crossroads Inc. wrote:OK, so having finally seen it.. Im I right in assuming that this ep ended with the Doctor basically forfeiting the largest most comprehensive library in the galaxy to flesh eating shadows, thus assuring it can never be used again?
Yeah, but given there's no food there anymore then the shadows would evntually starve or cannibalise themselves down to a more manageable level right?
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Post by NecronLord »

Crossroads Inc. wrote:OK, so having finally seen it.. Im I right in assuming that this ep ended with the Doctor basically forfeiting the largest most comprehensive library in the galaxy to flesh eating shadows, thus assuring it can never be used again?
So? In that age, books are a luxury. They're meaningless next to lives. Even the lives of malevolent shadows.

Remember, everything in the library is held in the computer, which via the Doctor Moon, can still communicate. As well as that, there is also fiction mist, data downloads, and sundry other means of information storage that are probably more effective.
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Post by Big Orange »

I'd say the Vashta Narada eventually deplete themselves or they've found a away to be self-sufficient by allowing small critters to form an ecosystem to feed off of (likely the latter than the former), plus CAL has every book there backed up and can transmit them to a more efficient exterior medium for people to access safely.

I'm not bothered by River Song being downloaded in CAL and to be fair even though Moffat used a second time, nobody permanently dying in a episode has not worn out it's welcome (yet) and the Doctor deserves an occasional 100% success rate ("Voyage of the Damned" had too many contrived deaths that lacked a real punch).

I've never understood the hate for Catherine Tate since day one and she did a great job in this episode, even if the CAL cyberworld segments can cynically be fobbed off as episode padding.

Here is an interesting review on the current season done by Lawrence Miles (who seemingly drinks from the same deep well of cynicism and misery as Stark, but with a different slant).
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Post by NecronLord »

Lawrence Miles wrote the Faction Pardox drivel. I was able to slog through precisely one of his books. He can just fuck off.
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Post by Plekhanov »

Lord Woodlouse wrote:
Thanas wrote: Like others said, Moffat has done better. I do not know if this bodes well or ill for his tenure as head writer.
In the commentary Moffat does say he'll be willing and able to kill people off properly when he takes control.
He certainly had no problem killing people off in Press Gang or Jekyll so I wouldn't worry about that.
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Post by Big Orange »

NecronLord wrote:Lawrence Miles wrote the Faction Pardox drivel. I was able to slog through precisely one of his books. He can just fuck off.
Oh, I guess the most severe critic can not put where his mouth is and reading up on him it seems like Lawrence Miles is essentially the Harlan Ellison of Doctor Who, he seems to be a reasonably talented writer who's ego got the better him, he became more grossly self-indulgent than Davies is supposed to be, then alienated the fans and especially the other DW writers, so he was barred from the Doctor Who franchise.

He appears to have a grudging respect for Steven Moffat and RTD, despite clearly having an axe to grind, crawling up the long leg of NuWho like an angry nat, contemplating rape. :P
Plekhanov wrote:He certainly had no problem killing people off in Press Gang or Jekyll so I wouldn't worry about that.
I can only vaguely recall Press Gang and cannot remember anybody dying (but I can remember, with some moderate clarity, about the damn kids being the bane of some sleazy supermarket chain).
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Post by Stark »

He's fucking INSANE. Seriously. I'm going to try to track down that interview, where he's basically ranting about how he was TOO AWESOME for BBC Books with his fantastic Faction Paradox stuff that ISN'T deeply stupid overwrought fannish nonsense AT ALL. :)

I have never seen anything to suggest he's even remotely talented. The Faction Paradox arc is hilariously bad.
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Post by Lord Woodlouse »

I think I saw Steven Moffat talking about how much of a dick he was on OG, actually. :)
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Big Orange wrote:Oh, I guess the most severe critic can not put where his mouth is and reading up on him it seems like Lawrence Miles is essentially the Harlan Ellison of Doctor Who, he seems to be a reasonably talented writer
Have you actually tried to read any of his stuff? After almost half an hour of thinking about it, I can name one worse writer...

Hitler.

Hitler, Adolf Hitler, is the only writer I can think of whose prose makes less sense than Lawrence Miles'. No, I'm not saying his politics are fasicst, or that he's personally like Hitler. However, aside from Mein Kampf, I've never encountered any other book in print as poorly written as Interference.

It's not the only book I've stopped reading for one reason or another down the years. It is however, the only one I stopped reading because it was actually less interesting than sitting back and experiencing my constipation at the time.

It has no merit. It is his opus, outlining his greatest contribution to Doctor Who. It's shit. It's actually more shit than sitting back and taking an anus-bashing physical actual literal shit.

He is a worse writer than Karen Traviss, Kevin J Anderson, all the sundry terrible writers in the world of Star Trek franchise fiction (whom he has the nerve to dismiss as 'poxy Star Trek people' even though they are for the most part inordinately more talented and capable than he) I have encountered. He is worse than John Norman. Yes, the guy who wrote the Gor seires. He is a worse person, but even he has more writing talent than Lawrence Miles. Which is saying something, given how abominable his 'style' is.

Alien Bodies was a tolerable book, because it almost directly copied Terror of the Zygons, and Invasion of the Dinosaurs and put in the reflected glory and supporting cast from Talons of Weng-Chaing. Even then, there were seeds of his own execrable invention.

I repeat. His skill as a writer (no, not his politics or ethics) is somewhere between John Norman and Hitler. And this may be because Hitler loses something in translation.

He has the nerve to criticise Lance Parkin, whose last BBC novel essentially undid the Faction Paradox arc, and whom he should rightly be worshipping the feet of as an idol of his chosen profession, by saying "but... it's what actually happens that's the problem. There's this enormous artifact from the future... [Yawns.]" when he [Miles] himself tried to pitch six books around an identical hook.

The only thing that's nearly as bad as his work is The Ancestor Cell, and even that at least had one redeeming feature, amongst its 'mightiest race in the universe being stymied by a door for years' and 'starving people being gunned down on the streets of Gallifrey' idiocy. At least that gave (evil... sigh) Romana a neat looking TARDIS in the shape of a giant ice cube. As far as I could get in any of Miles' books (save Alien Bodies) there wasn't even anything cool. Just shit and hyperbole.

He can't even do a Time Lord weapon right (I wouldn't mind, but he repeatedly wrote and pitched books about them at war) 'conceptual entities' and 'The Cold' and other bollocks. Davies' N-form leaves them standing in the dust. At least Time Torpedos and such crap are outrageously camp and fun.

And just for good measure, Miles claims that The Ancestor Cell was plagarised from him, too! So that suckery is partly his invention too!

I would wager money that you, right now, could invent better contributions to the Doctor Who universe. So could Stark and Bounty, and any lurker here.

He is a terrible writer. He is by a long way the worst writer in Doctor Who. He is possibly the worst living writer in Britain. Perhaps the worst writer in the English speaking world, or the world entire.

EDIT: Turns out, I was confusing Alien Bodies with The Bodysnatchers another early EDA book. Alien Bodies appears to actually be the same repulsive drivel as the rest of the Faction Paradox arc.
Last edited by NecronLord on 2008-07-09 01:06pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Stark »

Lord Woodlouse wrote:I think I saw Steven Moffat talking about how much of a dick he was on OG, actually. :)
ZOMG! It's too scary in there for me, but that sounds pretty awesome. I very much get the impression that by being such a cunt he burned all his bridges in the entire BBC/DW industry.
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Post by FaxModem1 »

I enjoyed it. Are we going to have any foreshadowing of the guy Donna met in the computer system? Or is he gone forever? I have to admit, that bit made me sad.

But overall, I enjoyed the episode, and I like the Dr. Moon = the actual moon.

The girl's face, that creeped me out, anybody else?
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