Zerg population

[hongi]

I don't know where else to put this, I don't want to make a new thread.

We now have a minimum number for the Zerg.

Population: Est. 10,000,000,000+ zerg

Char is apparently their primary hive. It's small compared to the armies of WH40K, but still pretty impressive, more so if we factor in the dozens of other planets that the Zerg have presumably established themselves in. I don't know how this fits into the earlier canon where the broods are mentioned as being composed of a few million.

EDIT: Former thread is two months old. ~GR

[Illuminatus Primus]

Ten billion on one planet? For a species supposed to be renown for its reproductive capacities and growth rate? That's pathetic.

[The Grim Squeaker]

Ten billion on one planet? For a species supposed to be renown for its reproductive capacities and growth rate? That's pathetic.

Well, it's not as bad as it looks.
For one, Char is not bountiful in resources, it makes sense to keep a low "Standing force" there, since the Zerg fight by reproducing in their enemies home territories, not by sending huge armies over (They did that on Aiur, true, but that's quite the exception), and the larva serve as ready made warrior templates that can be fermented with immense speed.
The numbers also don't say what they count as "Zerg", it could easily not count larva, unique strains (Hunter Killers, Cerebrates), possibly even the flying space based strains (Scourge, Guardians).

It's silly minimalism, but easily rationalized. (Depending on what the rest oif the setting has, we haven't seen new Protoss numbers yet, despite their policing substantial parts of the galaxy)

[Darth Ruinus]

The numbers also don't say what they count as "Zerg", it could easily not count larva, unique strains (Hunter Killers, Cerebrates), possibly even the flying space based strains (Scourge, Guardians).

Why would some Zerg strains not be counted as Zerg?

[Guardsman Bass]

Ten billion on one planet? For a species supposed to be renown for its reproductive capacities and growth rate? That's pathetic.

That is kind of sad; the total human population is probably higher (assuming you factor in the UED; I doubt the total Koprulu population is that high, and certainly not after all of the destruction that has happened).

I can only hope that this is the figure just for a small part of their group, and not the greater part (the Zerg do have a base on Tarsonis, at the very least, and I thought that at the beginning of Starcraft 2 that Kerrigan and the greater part of the Zerg Swarm had seemingly disappeared).

[Starglider]

a) it's an 'estimate' and
b) it's a lower limit; it could easily be an order of magnitude too low
c) what DEATH said

No need to get your knickers in a twist.

[Sea Skimmer]

It’s a planet that was reduced from habitable world to giant visible from orbit lakes of lava…. hardly a good place to breed utter swarms of animals. In any case Zerg numbers are a bit irrelevant without knowing the mixture of different Zerg types since some are clearly far more massive then others, and Zerg bases are living things in and of themselves.

[Lancer]

Char was never habitable in any reasonable sense of the word.

The Zerg could also employ a strategy similar to that of the Tyranids, wherein they create new organisms as needed, rather than maintain a large standing army of organisms sitting about consuming resources.

[The Grim Squeaker]

The numbers also don't say what they count as "Zerg", it could easily not count larva, unique strains (Hunter Killers, Cerebrates), possibly even the flying space based strains (Scourge, Guardians).

Why would some Zerg strains not be counted as Zerg?

The bases, unique individuals, the larva.
When counting the size of the US army, do you include the soldiers sperm count? Now, imagine babies that grow up in less than 20 years, more like 20 (Hours, minutes, days, no idea).

The Zerg could also employ a strategy similar to that of the Tyranids, wherein they create new organisms as needed, rather than maintain a large standing army of organisms sitting about consuming resources.

They employ that strategy (Using an opponent's native biosphere and subverting it to produce homegrown warriors) to an even greater degree than the Tyranids, which do rely on their fleets for the bulk of their invasion forces.

[Guardsman Bass]

To be fair, I believe Kerrigan was heavily using a mobile force in contrast to the earlier "breed most of your soldiers en site" strategy used by the Overmind, at least by the events in the Zerg Campaign in Brood War. But we have no idea what her numbers are at the end of that.

[Sriad]

I don't know where else to put this, I don't want to make a new thread.

We now have a minimum number for the Zerg.

Population: Est. 10,000,000,000+ zerg

Char is apparently their primary hive. It's small compared to the armies of WH40K, but still pretty impressive, more so if we factor in the dozens of other planets that the Zerg have presumably established themselves in. I don't know how this fits into the earlier canon where the broods are mentioned as being composed of a few million.

EDIT: Former thread is two months old. ~GR

Not their primary hive, just "the zerg's primary hive planet in the Koprulu sector" and the article has further fluff-speculation that it was selected for tactical value. It sounds like it has more in common with West Point or the Pentagon than Bombay.

[Sea Skimmer]

Char was never habitable in any reasonable sense of the word.

Yeah it sure as shit was before the Protoss blew away the surface after the Zerg started infesting the place.

[Guardsman Bass]

Char was never habitable in any reasonable sense of the word.

Yeah it sure as shit was before the Protoss blew away the surface after the Zerg started infesting the place.

I think you might be thinking of Chau Sara and Mar Sara, where the Protoss did effectively BDZ the planets. Char itself, to the best of my knowledge, was always a barely liveable lava rock.

[Sea Skimmer]

I think you might be thinking of Chau Sara and Mar Sara, where the Protoss did effectively BDZ the planets. Char itself, to the best of my knowledge, was always a barely liveable lava rock.

I’m pretty certain the story in the manual says it was the FIRST planet the Protons destroyed, and its destruction is the event being referenced in the opening movie. The Protoss then destroyed a whole string of human worlds in an attempt to eradicate the Zerg as the game plot unfolds.

[petesampras]

I think you might be thinking of Chau Sara and Mar Sara, where the Protoss did effectively BDZ the planets. Char itself, to the best of my knowledge, was always a barely liveable lava rock.

I’m pretty certain the story in the manual says it was the FIRST planet the Protons destroyed, and its destruction is the event being referenced in the opening movie. The Protoss then destroyed a whole string of human worlds in an attempt to eradicate the Zerg as the game plot unfolds.

Hmm, the question of how a civilisation with that kind of power is supposed to have got their asses kicked by the Zerg arises.

In terms of the whining about 'minimalism' of only 10 billion zerg. The game features battles, supposedly important battles, with a few hundred participants. The bigger the numbers given in the back story, the more ridiculous this looks. If anything, they'd be better off with the more extreme 'minimalism' of the old manual.

[Sriad]

It is possible that interstellar force-projection in the Starcraftverse is prohibitively expensive, hence the tactically questionable in-game choice we see made to manufacture everything on site, and the runaway success of the Zerg methodology.

[The Grim Squeaker]

I think you might be thinking of Chau Sara and Mar Sara, where the Protoss did effectively BDZ the planets. Char itself, to the best of my knowledge, was always a barely liveable lava rock.

I’m pretty certain the story in the manual says it was the FIRST planet the Protons destroyed, and its destruction is the event being referenced in the opening movie. The Protoss then destroyed a whole string of human worlds in an attempt to eradicate the Zerg as the game plot unfolds.

Hmm, the question of how a civilisation with that kind of power is supposed to have got their asses kicked by the Zerg arises.

Well, the Protoss were doing fine when they were BDZ every planet from orbit at the slightest sign of infection.
Once they started taking casualties in ground combat, and the Zerg began to build up their numbers from the Terrans and biospheres things went wonky. The Overmind sprouting up on Aiur and devastating their massively centralized, teleportation/central manufacture economy/warmachine was what utterly Fucked them up beyond repair. (remember, all the Protoss tech/war machines are teleported over from forges, mainly on Aiur).

[petesampras]

It is possible that interstellar force-projection in the Starcraftverse is prohibitively expensive, hence the tactically questionable in-game choice we see made to manufacture everything on site, and the runaway success of the Zerg methodology.

Well, the Protoss warp in reinforcements. Unfortunately, the greedy Protoss war-masters always demand payment before they send them, no matter how dire the need.

[avatarxprime]

I think you might be thinking of Chau Sara and Mar Sara, where the Protoss did effectively BDZ the planets. Char itself, to the best of my knowledge, was always a barely liveable lava rock.

I’m pretty certain the story in the manual says it was the FIRST planet the Protons destroyed, and its destruction is the event being referenced in the opening movie. The Protoss then destroyed a whole string of human worlds in an attempt to eradicate the Zerg as the game plot unfolds.

Just checked the manual to make sure. Nope it's Chau Sara that gets burned first (by 50 ships according to the manual) and then the Protoss head off to Mar Sara to incinerate it as well but Tassadar gets cold feet and pulls his fleet back. If he hadn't tried to avoid burning Terran worlds wholesale the entire game would not have taken place. Tassadar's attempt at preserving life ended up costing a whole lot more.

[Megabot]

In terms of the whining about 'minimalism' of only 10 billion zerg. The game features battles, supposedly important battles, with a few hundred participants. The bigger the numbers given in the back story, the more ridiculous this looks. If anything, they'd be better off with the more extreme 'minimalism' of the old manual.

Are you talking about in-game battles, where a dozen marines can down fighters and capital ships with their rifles? Or are there battles with a "few hundred participants" mentioned in the backstory that I don't know about? If you mean the former, then you're devoid of common sense, and I seriously doubt the latter, as the only in-universe source I can think of that deals with numbers is UED report cutscene in Brood War that mentioned Zerg casualties at the battle of Char numbering "in the millions."

[Lancer]

Game mechanics is an utterly futile way to try and get reliable numbers for any universe. There are things like "game balance" and "contrived plot" that get in the way of the Protoss just glassing a planet from orbit instead of having to get down and dirty, or having a swarm of a thousand Zerglings acting as a flanking force for a brood of Hydralisks attacking a Terran bunker.

[petesampras]

Game mechanics is an utterly futile way to try and get reliable numbers for any universe.

Of course. Especially in a game with such laughable game mechanics as Starcraft. My point was not that we should use game mechanics to get realistic figures for the backstory, but that the backstory should avoid giving more realistic numbers if these are more likely to break what little SOD exists when playing. The backstory is ultimately there to provide atmosphere for the game, not to offer a universe to be analysed. Say, if a battle is preceeded by a report saying trillions of Zerg are attacking. This just helps you to see how silly the game is, when you play it. If the report says instead that a large force is attacking, it makes it maybe a little bit easier to forget.

[Omeganian]

Well, If Kerrigan has any plans to battle the main Earth colonies, she has probably prepared trillions. After all, if a colony started by thirty thousand people after thirty years of cold sleep gives her so much trouble, imagine what forces exist where a million times as much had thirty more years to multiply and colonize.

[Guardsman Bass]

Well, If Kerrigan has any plans to battle the main Earth colonies, she has probably prepared trillions. After all, if a colony started by thirty thousand people after thirty years of cold sleep gives her so much trouble, imagine what forces exist where a million times as much had thirty more years to multiply and colonize.

Keep in mind, though, that the UED (or rather, its predecessor, the United Powers League) had effective control over almost the entire "primary human area" (meaning whatever colonies were settled that stayed in direct contact with Earth, along with Earth itself - as opposed to the Koprulu), with only some volatile nations staying out. Considering they were a totalitarian state with effective control and no real rivals for many years, it is entirely possible that the quality of their military and military technology really took a nose dive for the most part with some exceptions (like Du Galle and Stukov), and it has been a tough period of trying to re-train and re-build their military as fast as possible (as opposed to the Koprulu Colonies, whose military tech advance was fairly solid since they are constantly fighting with each other).

As for the Protoss, keep in mind that the Protoss force fighting conventionally on the ground was because of Tassadar's choice, not necessarily strategic expediency - he got cold feet about simply burning planets, which the Conclave was condoning if the Zerg infestation of the Koprulu Sector had progressed too far. Had that not happened, he could have simply continued to jump in, burn infested planets, and run away.

[NecronLord]

I never got the impression that Starcraft's populations were meant to be terribly big. I imagined something far smaller than the UFP for terran space while playing the game.