Doctor Who S30E11 "Turn Left" (Spoilers)

[Stark]

Urmphf? You missed everyone telling Donna that she's useless and a disappointment? You missed the whole "sacrifice" angle not coming into play until the last five minutes? The whole episode was basically about showing that Donna sans Doctor is society's flotsam, a loud and useless secretary who lives with her mom and gets shoved around by life because she can't get her act together. Like she said herself, the only "sacrifice" she makes is wiping out her craptastic life in her craptastic universe so another version of her can be useful... somehow.

Useful... because she's magic! Got to GIVE THE MAGIC BACK! Ugh. And it's not just that she can't get her act together - the episode makes her appear barely functional, unable to form even the most basic relationships without being a horrible cunt about it, and so selfish she loses all sympathy.

I said 'hinged' because the rest of the episode was basically character assassination - something totally unnecessary for a character with zero redeeming features. She's less useless than Martha but she's so much more offensive and if possible, even stupider. And the season hinges on her!

But hey, being rude, obnoxious, selfish and childish isn't bad. Woodlouse said so! And I don't just want her to die. I want her to die alone, uselessly, due to her own stupidity. I was actually looking forward to Rose showing up in the next ep and the Doctor saying 'oh hi Rose. This is... um... who cares. Go away, whoever you are, you're useless and annoying'. Oh well.

London destroyed? I'M NOT GOING TO LEEDS LOL

But hey, third best ep of season. And that's terrible.

And man, that prop didn't look that bad from a distance, but when they did the 'moulded plastic foot is terrifyingly climbing over her shoulder' it was just farcical. I think I saw flash, for fuck's sake.

[Bedlam]

"This is our time machine. Please ignore the fact that it's just stage lights and bedroom mirrors taped together."

I thought that was sort of a tribute to the victorian time machine from Evil of the Daleks, that was mostly built of mirrors.

[Stark]

I liked the totally 70s consoles they had. It's not a grey wooden cupboard with flashing lights glued on, no sir!

[Manus Celer Dei]

Oh, and the absolutely, offensively laughably bad insect prop... dear lord. Is it 2008? I'm just checking. I think I saw it in the clockwork insect aisle at the shop on Saturday! I should do a re-enactment!

This is something that irritated me in the Agatha Christie episode as well. These are crazy space insects that do all sorts of crazy things; why the hell do they look like earth bugs only bigger? I want my magical space bugs to look as weird as possible, not with no interesting qualities other than someone went overboard with the miracle-gro.

[Lord Woodlouse]

But hey, being rude, obnoxious, selfish and childish isn't bad. Woodlouse said so!

I'm asking HOW she is some kind of bitch, because you didn't actually provide any detail. But apparently she's a bitch because Stark said so? Excellent.

Again, she's just had her home nuked. Surprisingly enough that doesn't make people the most friendly and lovely individuals on the planet. But in spite of that she still had humanity enough to be horrified by what was happening to the Italian guy (though apparently she's a bitch who must die for shouting at him one night while she was depressed about everyone she knows being nuked, yeah).

So she doesn't want to go to Leeds? She obviously didn't understand how bad the situation was. She thought she could choose Glasgow, a place with more jobs, but she can't. *shrug* Ordinary human reaction.

She's acted like a normal human being. She's more abrasive than most, sure, but she's hardly some inhuman bitch who needs to die. In making such a retarded synopsis you're basically making yourself as much of a terrible human as the guys in Torchwood you love to criticise.

[Stark]

No, she needs to die. This is fact, not conjecture; it's only sad that she's going to die WITHOUT turning into Davros. Not much of a transformation, am I right?

It actually stuns me that you can watch the episode and then demand 'detail' about why she's a bitch. She's a totally unsympathetic character; not only is she appallingly stupid (arguing with someone who has a map showing the entire south of England bar Wales covered in a big red mark, lol) but pretty much everything she says and does is selfish. She's SO STUPID she doesn't even get where the 'foreigners' are going until it's spelt out to her, when it was immediately obvious to the ENTIRE AUDIENCE!

Any comparison between real people and Torchwood people is absurd; comparing someone who hates a character who was WRITTEN AS SELFISH AND SHOUTY to people who murder each other and then forget is more so. Sorry, other people noticed that the whole point of the episode was that without meeting the Doctor, not only is England devastated by Donna remains the selfish and stupid woman she was in Runaway Bride.

But hey, next time there's a massive refugee crisis I know how a 'normal human being' acts; being rude and making things difficult! Even *I'M* not harsh enough to think this characterisation was an accident of writing - it's showing the kind of person (and the kind of life) Donna was before she took up so much of our valuable torrenting volume.

[Lord Woodlouse]

It actually stuns me that you can watch the episode and then demand 'detail' about why she's a bitch. She's a totally unsympathetic character; not only is she appallingly stupid (arguing with someone who has a map showing the entire south of England bar Wales covered in a big red mark, lol) but pretty much everything she says and does is selfish. She's SO STUPID she doesn't even get where the 'foreigners' are going until it's spelt out to her, when it was immediately obvious to the ENTIRE AUDIENCE!

You seem to be the only person I've seen so far to have such a bile filled response about Donna. I know plenty hate Donna, but none so far have responded with quite such a ridiculous reaction... and no, not everyone automatically assumed labour camps meant death camps. I didn't until I saw Wilf's reaction. Well done for figuring it out a few seconds before the rest of us poor slobs, Stark, but it wasn't that obvious.

Any comparison between real people and Torchwood people is absurd; comparing someone who hates a character who was WRITTEN AS SELFISH AND SHOUTY to people who murder each other and then forget is more so.

You'd think so, but apparently you think death is the best response to someone who's a bit shouty. Yes, she's a fictional character, but the response is still ridiculous.

Sorry, other people noticed that the whole point of the episode was that without meeting the Doctor, not only is England devastated by Donna remains the selfish and stupid woman she was in Runaway Bride.

Still naive, yes, but I'm still not getting this massive selfish vibe that you apparently think is so big. She acts angry when she gets fired around the hospital incident (total bitch, who'd act angry about something like that?!), she gets tetchy with some random unnamed girl giving mysterious advice, and saying she'll die (well I'd fucking love that, Stark, so I guess you DO have a point), she wants to go to a better resettlement after her home is nuked (well what kind of crazy shit is this?!), she gets verbally beaten up by her bitch of a mother (well yeah, she obviously deserved it, right?) and then she throws herself in front of a truck to prevent the bad future from ever happening (selfish. bitch.).

Yes, I need you to spell this selfishness out for me Stark. Stop with the "OMG you don't see it?!" and just tell us all, use bulletin points if you can because I'm genuinely not seeing it.

[TC Pilot]

An alright episode. Vastly better than "Doctor's Daughter" but not the best of the season. A few things did bug me, though: the episode had an annoying habit of rapidly zooming in on nameless characters screaming, like the tank commander and the woman who saw Donna get hit. Plus the Adipose mass-killing (what, did Torchwood muck it all up?), and Rose knowing about the Torchwooders on Stahl's ship.

But dammit all, I want next week's episode NOW!

And I swear, I'll be sorely dissapointed if Rose and the Doctor don't do it like wild animals the second they meet again.

[Stark]

You seem to be the only person I've seen so far to have such a bile filled response about Donna. I know plenty hate Donna, but none so far have responded with quite such a ridiculous reaction... and no, not everyone automatically assumed labour camps meant death camps. I didn't until I saw Wilf's reaction. Well done for figuring it out a few seconds before the rest of us poor slobs, Stark, but it wasn't that obvious.

Yeah, I know; I really really hate her. It's probably much of the reason why S4 is basically complete fail for me.

You'd think so, but apparently you think death is the best response to someone who's a bit shouty. Yes, she's a fictional character, but the response is still ridiculous.

Fictional death for fictional people committing fictional crimes, that's what I say! It'd make all the 'god she's shouting again' seem to have a point, you see.

Still naive, yes, but I'm still not getting this massive selfish vibe that you apparently think is so big. She acts angry when she gets fired around the hospital incident (total bitch, who'd act angry about something like that?!), she gets tetchy with some random unnamed girl giving mysterious advice, and saying she'll die (well I'd fucking love that, Stark, so I guess you DO have a point), she wants to go to a better resettlement after her home is nuked (well what kind of crazy shit is this?!), she gets verbally beaten up by her bitch of a mother (well yeah, she obviously deserved it, right?) and then she throws herself in front of a truck to prevent the bad future from ever happening (selfish. bitch.).

Yes, I need you to spell this selfishness out for me Stark. Stop with the "OMG you don't see it?!" and just tell us all, use bulletin points if you can because I'm genuinely not seeing it.

I'm not going to bother. Frankly, you're someone who likes everything, so there's absolutely no point trying to explain it. I mean, after the episode makes her seem like such a cunt, they expected anyone to care when she had to commit suicide? This is what 'unsympathetic' means - if the audience doesn't sympathise with the protaganist, all that shit doesn't work because they don't care. I'd have cared more if it was MARTHA for fucks sake. Rose is all teary and cut up because someone she doesn't know, and who took YEARS to pull her ignorant head out of her selfish ass died in a fictional spinoff universe that never happens? If only the audience was too!

And sorry, there's a thread right now about how people who yell at customer service people are wankers worthy of scorn; that's pretty much Donna's whole schick. I hate her. I want her to die. It's worse than Torchwood because there's only one of her and SHE WON'T GET OFF MY SCREEN.

[SylasGaunt]

Plus the Adipose mass-killing (what, did Torchwood muck it all up?), and Rose knowing about the Torchwooders on Stahl's ship.

I'm wondering what sort of situation lead to that kind of escalation myself. But then with how wonky the timeline is without the Doctor running around it's almost impossible to guess.

[Gandalf]

2/5.

I want more of that Italian guy. I hope he's the next Master.

Next week looks interesting, I wonder how they'll reset all of that.

[NecronLord]

Fine point TC Pilot. I Forgot Torchwood (or its American equivalent) might have fucked it up.

[Lord Woodlouse]

I'm not going to bother. Frankly, you're someone who likes everything, so there's absolutely no point trying to explain it. I mean, after the episode makes her seem like such a cunt, they expected anyone to care when she had to commit suicide? This is what 'unsympathetic' means - if the audience doesn't sympathise with the protaganist, all that shit doesn't work because they don't care. I'd have cared more if it was MARTHA for fucks sake. Rose is all teary and cut up because someone she doesn't know, and who took YEARS to pull her ignorant head out of her selfish ass died in a fictional spinoff universe that never happens? If only the audience was too!

And sorry, there's a thread right now about how people who yell at customer service people are wankers worthy of scorn; that's pretty much Donna's whole schick. I hate her. I want her to die. It's worse than Torchwood because there's only one of her and SHE WON'T GET OFF MY SCREEN.

*shrug* Fair enough. As I say, all I see is someone who's shouty and occasionally obnoxious. But not, at the end of the day, a bad person. She wasn't selfish by anything I could gather, so I don't think I entirely out of line asking you which actions she made constituted selfish.

I'm not trying to force you to like the show, I don't really care if you do or not (though as I said with Torchwood, if you've stopped enjoying it I really would implore you to simply give up watching it). I don't like everything, but I do like a lot of Doctor Who because I think it's supposed to be honest to goodness brainless entertainment most of the time (which occasionally surprises you, which is just an extra delight to me when it does happen, not an expectation of high drama every episode). Thing is, you think this is some sudden drop in quality post season 2... to me it's the same as it always was. Again with the *shrug*.

[Ryushikaze]

An interesting episode on how life without the doctor changes...

Except that without the Doctor around, he couldn't have stopped the Pompeii event, or assuming that didn't work, the Karorianites in 1600. Given that the only events changed were the ones that happened in the 'future' of time relative to modern London (as opposed to the Doctor's 'future' from the schism, which included the aforementioned two events), I think the entire alternate timeline was a fabrication to show Donna how very important the Doctor is, and how the loss of him means the loss of pretty much everyone she cares about, with the bug just the device to show her the events and the lady simply trying to get her to come to that realization.

I think Donna's gonna take one for the team, and this episode was setting up the frame of mind for her to realize that she has to.

[Soontir C'boath]

An interesting episode on how life without the doctor changes...

Except that without the Doctor around, he couldn't have stopped the Pompeii event, or assuming that didn't work, the Karorianites in 1600. Given that the only events changed were the ones that happened in the 'future' of time relative to modern London (as opposed to the Doctor's 'future' from the schism, which included the aforementioned two events), I think the entire alternate timeline was a fabrication to show Donna how very important the Doctor is, and how the loss of him means the loss of pretty much everyone she cares about, with the bug just the device to show her the events and the lady simply trying to get her to come to that realization.

I think Donna's gonna take one for the team, and this episode was setting up the frame of mind for her to realize that she has to.

Why does this alternate time-line have to fit with the original?

[Zixinus]

Except that without the Doctor around, he couldn't have stopped the Pompeii event, or assuming that didn't work, the Karorianites in 1600.

I don't recall about the Karorianities, but with Pompeii the Doc told that it was inevitable somehow. Meaning that it would have happened either way.

[General Zod]

Except that without the Doctor around, he couldn't have stopped the Pompeii event, or assuming that didn't work, the Karorianites in 1600.

I don't recall about the Karorianities, but with Pompeii the Doc told that it was inevitable somehow. Meaning that it would have happened either way.

Well, the problem is he said that it was "fixed" in time, but because of the Doctor's presence, it would naturally appear fixed since he can't change his own timeline. Which makes me wonder if the event would have swung to being "in flux" without the Doctor there to do anything.

[Lord Woodlouse]

Also the Trickster (from SJA) was said to deal with certain world shattering events himself in order to prolong certain alternative timelines. This beetle thing was supposed to be a part of "the trickster's brigade" so possibly the same kind of thing happened here.

[Ryushikaze]

Why does this alternate time-line have to fit with the original?

It doesn't, past the time changing event. Which is why I pointed out two events that would have gone far, far, far worse for humanity if not for the intervention of the Doctor that are before the schism as far as the normal flow of time, but after it as far as the Doctor's own timeline is concerned.
And the Daleks in Manhattan as well, presuming that magically the previous two worldthreats didn't pop.

The idea is that killing the doctor in 'The runaway bride' leads to a timeline which means he doesn't stop events which leads to a timeline in which the world and/ or humanity is not there long before the events of the source of schism. You can kind of deal with it with unfixed timey wimey, but it still sort of strikes me as simpler in the long run if the fake universe was a 'local' thing. The Doctor said something to that effect once it had died, too. "Wrapped a parallel timeline around you" or something like that.

[Thanas]

Okay...so just when I finally seem to warm up to Donna, I get this episode. You know, with the whole Rose reveal and stuff.

And RTD could have written it in a way that would actually riveting. Like in the last scene, when Tennant is acting like the fine actor he is - watch his face when Donna says "She was blond" and the following minutes. Those were the highlights of the episode and had RTD focused on those pieces of the plot it would have been a fantastic episode.

Instead, I get 35+ minutes of Donna. And it is not a sympathetic one. She basically comes off as unhinged, sociopathic bitch. I mean, five hundred people die and she just shrugs it off? She is too busy complaining about her bad life? And this goes on and on. Donna whining, bad things happening, more whining, Rose shows up, Donna acts completely self-centered, blahblahblah...

Not even Martha was that bad. She certainly wasn't such a selfish bitch.

Good lord. And to top it off, we get Catherine Tate trying to act. Bah. David Tennant can act. Billie Piper can act. The italian guy can act. Catherine Tate....meh.

[Thanas]

Ghetto edit - This episode gets a three, and just barely because of the final minutes of the episode.

[Stark]

*shrug* Fair enough. As I say, all I see is someone who's shouty and occasionally obnoxious. But not, at the end of the day, a bad person. She wasn't selfish by anything I could gather, so I don't think I entirely out of line asking you which actions she made constituted selfish.

I'm not trying to force you to like the show, I don't really care if you do or not (though as I said with Torchwood, if you've stopped enjoying it I really would implore you to simply give up watching it). I don't like everything, but I do like a lot of Doctor Who because I think it's supposed to be honest to goodness brainless entertainment most of the time (which occasionally surprises you, which is just an extra delight to me when it does happen, not an expectation of high drama every episode). Thing is, you think this is some sudden drop in quality post season 2... to me it's the same as it always was. Again with the *shrug*.

I see where you're coming from; I have only watched the last few eps due to Moffat and the finale buildup (which looks hilarious if nothing else). I pretty much gave up on the show at the start of the year and stopped watching it, just like Torchwood. I'm not particularly optimistic about Moffat next year, but it's the only reason I'll watch any S5 at all.

[Dartzap]

New Clip up for The Stolen Earth, UK only

Aww, poor Jack Bollocks! What shithole will I end up in this time?! Bognor Regis?"

[NecronLord]

How is it that the Sarah Jane bit is actually moving, and Torchwood just made me want to laugh. Oh wait, it's because I hate them due to incessantly bad writing with them repeatedly endangering the entire human race.

[El Moose Monstero]

New Clip up for The Stolen Earth, UK only

Aww, poor Jack Bollocks! What shithole will I end up in this time?! Bognor Regis?"

Come back! The Daleks are stuck in a loop!

That doesn't bode well, which of the poor daleks has to stand by a microphone for the whole flight broadcasting to Earth. Why not just say it once? Or actually say something relevant since you're bothering to transmit it to Earth in the first place.