Metal Gear Solid 4 (With spoilers!)

[Admiral Valdemar]

That's circular logic. You are saying that because they did what they did it MUST have been the only way to achieve their goal which doesn't make any sense. Once they had physical control of GW (which they did back in MGS2) they should have been able to knock out the AI cluster with zero issues.

They didn't have a way to do it without major disruption to the system, hence the final last ditch effort of taking over SOP once they began bringing online such systems after S3 and using the nuke and REX's railgun to take out JD (which they'd only just found out about was hiding as orbital debris).

No doubt they could gave tried to take out the system using just GW that way, but without Sunny using Emma's code and her experience from within the Patriot network, they could have essentially left the world in anarchy. It was fortunate that they had a worm that intricately knew how to disconnect the AIs from the systems they controlled without harming their environment, otherwise they had just the nuke it option on the table. With only Zero left to really sculpt a world in The Boss' ideology, everyone else was on the outside up until MGS2 with George Sears/Solidus going rogue, albeit, failing as part of S3.

It's not like they didn't try all of this before anyway, since MGS2 had an attempt to take out the network which failed, even if it gave them a chance to salvage the autistic GW and use it later to build up again and try a better route. Liquid acquiring PMCs and the like was for the eventuality of taking down JD et al and then asserting authority without civil war erupting globally.

[Darth Ruinus]

I just saw that REX vs Ray fight, and how does the REX suddenly become a walking tank of super-duper ultra death, and yet failed ot kill Snake?

[Ohma]

Because Snake is magic.

[Admiral Valdemar]

It had to be levelled out so as to be somewhat of a fair fight. Still, I would've preferred the RAY prototype be a little more powerful, especially as REX had little really working with it and an open cockpit to boot.

Then again, REX was by far the hardest boss in MGS originally.

[Vympel]

Then again, REX was by far the hardest boss in MGS originally.

Unfortunately RAY was piss easy

I'm stuck on the Crying Wolf fight - not because it's too hard - I just haven't had a chance to play for a while. But it did seem like a difficult boss fight.

Speaking of which, when the music from the original MGS comes on when you approach the base at Shadow Moses, it was awesome.

5) Someone else got Snake's girl. That pisses me off.

Making a useless character with chronic diahrrea part of the plot as opposed to an in joke was just plain weird. Anyone notice that he looks pretty much exactly like Snake? Except he's useless?

[Admiral Valdemar]

Unfortunately RAY was piss easy

I'm stuck on the Crying Wolf fight - not because it's too hard - I just haven't had a chance to play for a while. But it did seem like a difficult boss fight.

Speaking of which, when the music from the original MGS comes on when you approach the base at Shadow Moses, it was awesome.

RAY was sadly too much of a pushover on normal difficulty. The trailers made it out to be the final battle in a way, even if I expected it would be fisticuffs instead, it would be awesome to have had a more epic fight with the Metal Gear prototypes.

Crying Wolf is a bitch by virtue of being a sniper, which is always harder than a melee like fighter (though she can easily render you dead if you do get stupid enough to take her suit on mano-a-womano). I managed her first time (Laughing Octopus was the hardest in my mind), but had to repeat it after failing to save when entering the blast furnace, which, by the way, has the single most annoying enemy you can come against. The nostalgia, especially with Gregson-Williams redoing some of the older themes was brilliant.

That dream Snake had was the sort of awesome thing kooky Kojima does best.

Making a useless character with chronic diahrrea part of the plot as opposed to an in joke was just plain weird. Anyone notice that he looks pretty much exactly like Snake? Except he's useless?

Again, kooky. He does look like Snake and I half expected something to be made of that. I guess the moral of the story is that even the Sasaki family can have a happy ending in the MGS-verse.

[The Kernel]

Unfortunately RAY was piss easy

I'm stuck on the Crying Wolf fight - not because it's too hard - I just haven't had a chance to play for a while. But it did seem like a difficult boss fight.

Speaking of which, when the music from the original MGS comes on when you approach the base at Shadow Moses, it was awesome.

Crying Wolf isn't bad, I just stuck it out under the truck near the start and sniped the FROGs, then waited for her to come out of her wolf costume and either sniper her or hit her with my trusty grenade launcher if she was close enough.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Yeah, the FROGs are by far the worst part of that fight, like how Raging Raven had those UCAV flying wings to aid her and make it harder to figure out which one was really her. She isn't too hard if you know what to do, but when you have no rations or other health items and you're being tailed by a dozen soldiers, it gets tricky. The DSR-1 helps a bundle without forking out for an SVD or PSG-1 etc.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Oh, and found this awesome Hollywood-esque trailer around.

[Vympel]

Anyone else notice when you're slaughtering the enemy en masse, you hear someone say "you enjoy all the killing, that's why!"

It doesn't sound like Liquid Snake though, even though that's his quote.

[Vympel]

Yahtzee reviews

As usual, absolutely right - but fuck it, I love MGS despite all it's pretentious bullshit.

[Ghost Rider]

Finished it, and it's Metal Gear. I knew what to expect and he met every one of them...both the good and the really fucking horribly done.

That said, the fight between the mechs was the most fun.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Anyone else notice when you're slaughtering the enemy en masse, you hear someone say "you enjoy all the killing, that's why!"

It doesn't sound like Liquid Snake though, even though that's his quote.

Thought I heard that too. I got "Eagle" for my rank, so I imagine all those "BOOM! Headshot" kills worked their magic.

And GR, what was done horribly?

[Zixinus]

Yahtzee reviews

As usual, absolutely right - but fuck it, I love MGS despite all it's pretentious bullshit.

I just love it when he exclaims "Oh Christ, this shit is bananas!"

[Ghost Rider]

Anyone else notice when you're slaughtering the enemy en masse, you hear someone say "you enjoy all the killing, that's why!"

It doesn't sound like Liquid Snake though, even though that's his quote.

Thought I heard that too. I got "Eagle" for my rank, so I imagine all those "BOOM! Headshot" kills worked their magic.

And GR, what was done horribly?

For me honestly?

It was a lot of the story, some of which I didn't like. As a Metal Gear game goes(and yes, I have a different mindset for it then say GTA) it wasn't bad. I liked MGS1 and MGS3 more so as they flowed better, and less of the sheer happenstance(Ocelot still takes the cake for me of "So let me get this straight, you're Kevin Bacon and everyone has some connection with you?").

Specifically things like "Look it's Big Boss!" and "Ocelot was faking!!" just didn't sit with me as well as say Raiden's transformation, or even the whole AI/Zero being the veggie. Now, other parts did give me a smile...specifically killing Vamp, and the battle of the MGs and the final bout of fisticuffs.

I will say this much, I was not expecting much better or worse from Kojima as a total package, because over the years I know and knew what to expect from him and to be honest was not disappointed because of it.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I guess because of the size of the story, they had only so much to deal with and suffered from cramming a lot in (in fact, I hear they made a lot of cuts because Blu-ray couldn't fit it all on one disc). I found the story satisfied me, with my only issues being some of the getting used to controls which soon died off.

Ocelot is always awesome, especially when mixed with Liquid.

I could really do with seeing more of the BB Corps kicking ass though. Is it wrong I was watching Prince Caspian tonight and kept thinking how they'd fare in battles or Snake infiltrating the castle?

[SylasGaunt]

I checked it out with my game pass and have been playing it at a friend's and finally finished it tonight. A few observations.

1.) As others have said.. Rex vs. Ray fight = badass.

2.) Scarabs are fucking irritating and creepy.

3.) The B&B corp. were an interesting set of opponents, especially the way they reflected the Foxhound, Dead Cell, and Cobra bosses from previous games.

Also for those who don't know there's a big Metal Gear Solid encyclopedia you can download from the playstation store that's a huge repository of metal gear lore, though the MGS:4 stuff isn't visible until you have a completed game save (that has to be created on that console).

[Vympel]

3.) The B&B corp. were an interesting set of opponents, especially the way they reflected the Foxhound, Dead Cell, and Cobra bosses from previous games.

I could've done without hearing the story of these bosses from Drebin's stupid ass voice after I killed them, though. The worst story was that of Laughing Octopus. I was groaning throughout that one. Though I've not been able to play since last time I posted anyway, so I don't know how asinine Crying Wolf or Screaming Mantis' stories are.

Also for those who don't know there's a big Metal Gear Solid encyclopedia you can download from the playstation store that's a huge repository of metal gear lore, though the MGS:4 stuff isn't visible until you have a completed game save (that has to be created on that console).

Do you have to pay for it? Is it just text, or are there pictures and ... maybe cutscenes?

[Admiral Valdemar]

Where on the store site is it? I was looking last week and say only the last MGS4 trailer to download.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Ah, no matter. I found it (on the front page now). When I checked last week, it wasn't loaded up for some reason. It's very useful, even if it would be nicer having cutscenes, interviews and scripts and other media added to it which would certainly make it a wee bit bigger in file size.

[SylasGaunt]

I could've done without hearing the story of these bosses from Drebin's stupid ass voice after I killed them, though. The worst story was that of Laughing Octopus. I was groaning throughout that one. Though I've not been able to play since last time I posted anyway, so I don't know how asinine Crying Wolf or Screaming Mantis' stories are.

I was thinking more along the lines of Name/Emotion links and weaponry links. They've all got pretty fucked up backstories though.


Wolf was from some African shit-hole with all the tribalism and ethnic cleansing you'd expect. Parents died leaving just her and her baby brother to wander the countryside. She hides from some soldiers in a shed, her baby brother starts crying and in her attempts to muffle his cries she accidentally smothers him. Later she makes her way to a refugee camp where the crying of babies makes her snap and she begins roaming the camp at night systematically smothering every baby in the camp.

Mantis is again from another war torn shithole this one in South America. While fleeing an attack she stumbles into a basement full of corpses underneath a makeshift torture chamber. She gets locked in, gets driven mad from hunger and the screams of the people upstairs and starts eating the corpses in the cellar with her. She's so fucked up by this experience eventually someone rips most of what's left of her psyche out and replaces it with that of Psycho Mantis.

Do you have to pay for it? Is it just text, or are there pictures and ... maybe cutscenes?

Text with some pictures and it's free.

[Admiral Valdemar]

It's hard to choose which BB Corps member has the best back story. They're all fucked up, though we can agree that while Laughing Octopus is the cutest (well, I thought so), her story isn't exactly something happening today, as with the others who all come from warzones.

As a certain bomb expert would say, "Laugh, and grow fat!".

[Battlehymn Republic]

Making a useless character with chronic diahrrea part of the plot as opposed to an in joke was just plain weird. Anyone notice that he looks pretty much exactly like Snake? Except he's useless?

Again, kooky. He does look like Snake and I half expected something to be made of that. I guess the moral of the story is that even the Sasaki family can have a happy ending in the MGS-verse.

Isn't Johnny Sasaki is one of Snake's gene-sons, as one of the original Genome soldiers from MGS1?

[Vympel]

The GENOME Soldiers aren't clones like Solid, Liquid and Solidus. They're just regular men who've received treatments. We saw Johnny's grandfather in Snake Eater.

However:-

Johnny never got any though- scared of needles. Hence his being unaffected the various times Ocelot used the System against various troops in his vicinity, unlike the rest of Rat Patrol

[Battlehymn Republic]

Maybe a future omake/side-story/whatever will reveal that he was a discarded clone-child who was adopted by Grandpa Sasaki or something.