Canada puts brakes on electric vehicles

[Solauren]

All I can say is, the hell?

MONTREAL (AFP) - Despite increasing local demand for zero-emissions cars and trucks and robust exports of electric vehicles, Canada will not allow them on its roads, lament manufacturers.

ADVERTISEMENT

"It's a daily embarrassment," said Ian Clifford, president of Zenn Motor Company, which builds "zero emissions no noise" vehicles in Canada for export primarily to the United States.


"Even my employees can't drive to work in a Zenn. It's absurd," he said of federal and provincial rules that forbid electric cars from being driven on most Canadian roads.


Clifford's frustration is aggravated by the view that Canadians are increasingly concerned about the environment and are said to be eager to drive electric vehicles in this warming climate.


"We build the car in St. Jerome (Quebec) and ship them all south of the border," where 44 states allow them, and some 45,000 electric cars are in use today, he said.


But Transport Canada says the vehicles made of lightweight metals and plastics are not safe to drive on Canada's open roads, and would not stand up in a collision.


The regulatory agency has so far certified only five models as road-worthy, including the Zenn, and two others that are no longer in production, said Transport Canada spokeswoman Maryse Durette.


But most provinces, which have jurisdiction over the vast majority of roads and highways in the country, have balked at giving electric cars the green light, citing Transport Canada's safety concerns.


"We found Transport Canada to be very hostile towards low speed electric vehicles," echoed Danny Epp of Dynasty Electric Car in an email to AFP.


The Canadian company was recently sold to a Pakistani group which plans to move production to Karachi and continue exporting its vehicles to the United States.


According to reports, others allege political bias, noting Prime Minister Stephen Harper's Conservative government's base of support in oil-rich Alberta province.


To date, only westernmost British Columbia allows low speed electric vehicles on its urban roads.


This week, Quebec in eastern Canada announced a three-year pilot project that would permit starting in July the Zenn and an electric truck called Nemo on its roads with posted speed limits of 50 kilometers (31 miles) per hour.


Manufacturers are hoping Quebec's pilot may spur its neighbors to jump on the bandwagon and eventually make it possible to drive an electric car from coast to coast across all 10 of Canada's provinces.


"We hope it will lead to changes," said Jacques Rancourt, head of utility truck maker Nemo, based in Montreal. But the road promises to be uphill all the way, he said.


Despite their widespread use in the United States and strong sales, there are still technical improvements to be made, say experts, such as boosting the life of batteries used in electric vehicles to allow them to go further.


Hydro Quebec subsidiary TM4, which makes electric motors for the Cleanova electric car built by a subsidiary of France's Dassault auto group, is working on a new more powerful lithium-ion battery for use in electric vehicles.


According to Quebec's Transport Minister Julie Boulet, TM4 is also seeking to partner on the project with a large automaker, which she refused to name.

"The battery is really at the heart of the matter to get electric cars rolling," said Hydro Quebec spokesman Flavie Cote. "We all want exceptional performance from a battery that doesn't take long to recharge, at a low cost."

[Singular Intellect]

I can understand safety concerns being a reason for holding back on the issue.

However, sooner or later we have to start switching over to non oil powered cars, and sooner is better than later.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Is anyone working towards producing a tough/heavy vehicle which runs on electric? Are there any big-rigs which run on electricity?

[White Haven]

I think the point here is that designers are using lower-power motors, both for practicality and to save on electricity, and lighter mass makes those more viable. So lightweight vehicles aren't a side-effect, they're deliberate.

[White Haven]

Ghetto edit: Hit submit too soon. If scooters and motorcycles and bicycles are allowed on Canadian roads, I can't see the argument against lightweight electrics.

[Singular Intellect]

I think the point here is that designers are using lower-power motors, both for practicality and to save on electricity, and lighter mass makes those more viable. So lightweight vehicles aren't a side-effect, they're deliberate.

True, hence the problem Canada's government seems to have. The electric vehicles would not fair well in a collison with their heavier and more powerful gas powered brethren. So it's a choice between electric vehicles on the road and potentially more deaths in car accidents.

[Sea Skimmer]

Is anyone working towards producing a tough/heavy vehicle which runs on electric?

Do the worlds thousands of past and present hybrid diesel-electric (and a few pure electric) subs, and five now long ago scrapped turbo-electric battleships count as vehicles? Those things happen to be on the tough side, what with the need to withstand depth charges and one ton supersonic shell hits and all.

Are there any big-rigs which run on electricity?

Never heard of a pure electric big rig, the batteries for even a hybrid would have to be insanely heavy and the economy advantages would be dubious to nonexistent if the truck ran primarily long distances on highways. Some US railroads are starting to buy hybrid switcher locomotives though, an idea which is only about 120 years old (no joke) for which the weight of a massive bank of batteries is actually an advantage as it increases tractive effort.


Anyway crash standards are a nontrivial issue, and they and emissions standards both work against fuel economy standards already. If we had no standards for vehicles save fuel economy we could get significantly better mileage without any fancy technology at all.

Ghetto edit: Hit submit too soon. If scooters and motorcycles and bicycles are allowed on Canadian roads, I can't see the argument against lightweight electrics.

Umm, maybe the fact that you cant get multiple people crushed or otherwise trapped inside any of those things? Its really not that complicated an issue.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

A more constructive thing would be electric farming equipment, which operates in a fixed, small location with long periods of inactivity available for recharging.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Is anyone working towards producing a tough/heavy vehicle which runs on electric? Are there any big-rigs which run on electricity?

What the hell is the point? The problem we have is not even that we could not get everyone in the U.S. from Point A to Point B with less energy and sound economics, but everyone insists on hauling useless mass with them for reasons ranging from absurd aesthetics and luxury to groupthink and trends. Of course, who is going to break the pattern and drive a lighter vehicle and hope people follow? Its in the collective interest but in no one's lone individual interest. Government needs to step in and thin the freeways of big rigs and heavy vehicles (transiting to, medium and long distance passenger transit, major freight, and long-distance shipping primarily by train) and limit the mass of vehicle per passenger on the road. Then they need to nationally beef up and enforce traffic laws and rules aggressively.

[Illuminatus Primus]

A more constructive thing would be electric farming equipment, which operates in a fixed, small location with long periods of inactivity available for recharging.

Perfect for farming also is local cogeneration, with animal wastes to methane and biosolids for combustion and plant wastes and such to ethanol. And with the low density per unit of time per unit of acreage making the electric drive systems ideally dependent on a grid and storage system fed by wind turbines; one per field over very large areas, therefore totally eliminating the net energy consumption of heavy mechanized farming (and depending on the crops and the eventual productive output of animal and plant waste biofuel production, maybe net even energy exporters). At the very least we just eliminate another major draw.

[Vejut]

Dunno about pure electric, but New Flyer certainly makes these diesel-electric transit buses. WMATA (aka Metro for those of us in DC) owns several, and I see them around College Park a lot.

[Singular Intellect]

A more constructive thing would be electric farming equipment, which operates in a fixed, small location with long periods of inactivity available for recharging.

If I got to rule Canada, I want you on the side for recommendations and ideas for punching through the energy crisis.

[Kanastrous]

A more constructive thing would be electric farming equipment, which operates in a fixed, small location with long periods of inactivity available for recharging.

If I got to rule Canada, I want you on the side for recommendations and ideas for punching through the energy crisis.

Yeah, I think that's a pretty brilliant observation.

[Guardsman Bass]

Are there pure electric equivalents to modern farm machinery in existence, or just on the drawing board?

[Broomstick]

A more constructive thing would be electric farming equipment, which operates in a fixed, small location with long periods of inactivity available for recharging.

Not to mention a significantly lower risk of collision with other things.

[Kitsune]

I used to live in upstate New Hampshire...you should see how some of that farm equipment is driven

[Solauren]

A more constructive thing would be electric farming equipment, which operates in a fixed, small location with long periods of inactivity available for recharging.

If I got to rule Canada, I want you on the side for recommendations and ideas for punching through the energy crisis.

Get in line, I called dibs YEARS ago

[Ma Deuce]

One reason these cars are allowed for sale in the US is because they can be classified as "Neighborhood electric vehicles", and thus are allowed only on roads where the speed limit is no greater than 35 mph. No such distinction is made in Canada, where all private motor vehicles (at least those with more than two wheels) must be subject to the same rules and standards.

Seriously though, if they let motorcycles oh highways, I see no reason not to allow lightweight electric cars, provided they are capable of cruising at the speed limit, even if it requires a special license to operate them.

[Starglider]

but everyone insists on hauling useless mass with them for reasons ranging from absurd aesthetics and luxury to groupthink and trends.

Quite a large number of Americans, when asked, say 'oh no, I really need a pickup/SUV, because....'. The number that actually need one is almost certainly much lower, but most people get very indignant at others trying to tell them what they do and do not need. I can understand that, considering the disasters that governments based on 'to each according to his need' turned out to be.

Government needs to step in and thin the freeways of big rigs and heavy vehicles (transiting to, medium and long distance passenger transit, major freight, and long-distance shipping primarily by train) and limit the mass of vehicle per passenger on the road.

Tightening up licensing of larger vehicles on safety grounds is reasonable. Hard restrictions on safety grounds is difficult to justify, because allowing any large vehicles at all implies that for some level of economic benefit the safety risks are acceptable. Then you have to explain why allowing commercial trucks to operate is more of an intrinsic benefit than allowing individuals in SUVs when both are prepared to pay the same fuel and licensing costs. This will not go down well in the US where the right to do what you please is virtually enshrined, as is the money-equivalence of all benefits.

Then they need to nationally beef up and enforce traffic laws and rules aggressively.

Enforcing traffic laws over huge areas is expensive. You can pay for that with punnitive fines, but you have to be careful that doesn't become a revenue-raiser for local government.

[SCRawl]

Seriously though, if they let motorcycles oh highways, I see no reason not to allow lightweight electric cars, provided they are capable of cruising at the speed limit, even if it requires a special license to operate them.

Well, the ZENN, at least, can only go about 25 mph, which doesn't cut the mustard as far as speed goes. Not that I'd want to go the limit in a vehicle that's known to be crushed like a beer can in a collision.

[CaptainZoidberg]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be safe to drive these lightweight cars if everyone was driving the lightweight cars? Of course it won't stand up well against an SUV since that vehicle has much more momentum, but shouldn't a collision between two low momentum vehicles be just as safe as a collision two high momentum vehicles?

The problem that I see here is really that for an individual there is a safety risk to driving a lightweight vehicle, but also a safety benefit for the collective.

[Singular Intellect]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be safe to drive these lightweight cars if everyone was driving the lightweight cars? Of course it won't stand up well against an SUV since that vehicle has much more momentum, but shouldn't a collision between two low momentum vehicles be just as safe as a collision two high momentum vehicles?

Actually, 'safer' would be the term if you're talking about mass. The less weight both vehicles are, the less energy being imparted during impact.

[Enigma]

How much safer is a Smart car compared to a ZENN or any other electric car?

[Sea Skimmer]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be safe to drive these lightweight cars if everyone was driving the lightweight cars? Of course it won't stand up well against an SUV since that vehicle has much more momentum, but shouldn't a collision between two low momentum vehicles be just as safe as a collision two high momentum vehicles?

If everyone drove lightweight cars, AND those cars all met proper crash standards then they’d be just as safe in typical multi vehicle accidents, and much safer in typical single vehicle accidents.