Lawyer proveing via Google Search... Everyone likes Porn

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Mr Bean
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Lawyer proveing via Google Search... Everyone likes Porn

Post by Mr Bean »

The basic setup for this is, in 1973 the Supreme Court decided that "contemporary community standards" would define what was obscene or not. This of course is bullshit, as anyone who sits down and thinks about it for a few second will know. There are universal standards(No under-age child porno) for example. But generally speaking what one person says they consider obscene in public is far different from what one person considers obscene in private.

So Via Google Trends, the Lawyer in the case is seeking to prove that in Pensacola, FL(My home town no less) love the Porn, and love the same Porn his client is being charged with liking.

NY Times
NY Times wrote: What’s Obscene? Google Could Have an Answer

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By MATT RICHTEL
Published: June 24, 2008

Judges and jurors who must decide whether sexually explicit material is obscene are asked to use a local yardstick: does the material violate community standards?
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Google Trends: Relative popularity in Florida of the search terms "surfing," "orgy" and "apple pie." (External Link)
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Considering the accessibility of online pornography, how should communities shape local obscenity standards in the digital age?

That is often a tricky question because there is no simple, concrete way to gauge a community’s tastes and values.

The Internet may be changing that. In a novel approach, the defense in an obscenity trial in Florida plans to use publicly accessible Google search data to try to persuade jurors that their neighbors have broader interests than they might have thought.

In the trial of a pornographic Web site operator, the defense plans to show that residents of Pensacola are more likely to use Google to search for terms like “orgy” than for “apple pie” or “watermelon.” The publicly accessible data is vague in that it does not specify how many people are searching for the terms, just their relative popularity over time. But the defense lawyer, Lawrence Walters, is arguing that the evidence is sufficient to demonstrate that interest in the sexual subjects exceeds that of more mainstream topics — and that by extension, the sexual material distributed by his client is not outside the norm.

It is not clear that the approach will succeed. The Florida state prosecutor in the case, which is scheduled for trial July 1, said the search data may not be relevant because the volume of Internet searches is not necessarily an indication of, or proxy for, a community’s values.

But the tactic is another example of the value of data collected by Internet companies like Google, both from a commercial standpoint and as a window into the thoughts, interests and desires of their users.

“Time and time again you’ll have jurors sitting on a jury panel who will condemn material that they routinely consume in private,” said Mr. Walters, the defense lawyer. Using the Internet data, “we can show how people really think and feel and act in their own homes, which, parenthetically, is where this material was intended to be viewed,” he added.

Mr. Walters last week also served Google with a subpoena seeking more specific search data, including the number of searches for certain sexual topics done by local residents. A Google spokesman said the company was reviewing the subpoena.

Mr. Walters is defending Clinton Raymond McCowen, who is facing charges that he created and distributed obscene material through a Web site based in Florida. The charges include racketeering and prostitution, but Mr. Walters said the prosecution’s case fundamentally relies on proving that the material on the site is obscene.

Such cases are a relative rarity this decade. In the last eight years, the Justice Department has brought roughly 15 obscenity cases that have not involved child pornography, compared with 75 during the Reagan and first Bush administrations, according to Jeffrey J. Douglas, chairman emeritus of the First Amendment Lawyers Association. (There have been hundreds involving child pornography.) Prosecutions at the state level have followed a similar arc.


The question of what constitutes obscenity relies on a three-part test established in a 1973 decision by the Supreme Court. Essential to the test has been whether the material in question is patently offensive or appeals to a prurient interest in sex — definitions that are based on “contemporary community standards.”

Lawyers in obscenity cases have tried to demonstrate community standards by, for example, showing the range of sexually explicit magazines and movies available locally. A better barometer, Mr. Douglas said, would be mail-order statistics, because they show what people consume in private. But that information is hard to obtain.

“All you had to go on is what was available for public consumption, and that was a very crude tool,” Mr. Douglas said. “The prospect of having measurement of Internet traffic brings a more objective component than we’ve ever seen before.”

In a federal obscenity case heard this month, Mr. Douglas defended another Florida pornographer. In the trial, Mr. Douglas set up a computer in the courtroom and did Internet searches for sexually explicit terms to show the jury that there were millions of Web pages discussing such material. He then searched for other topics, like the University of Florida quarterback Tim Tebow, to demonstrate that there were not nearly as many related Web sites.

The jury was evidently not swayed, as his client was convicted on all counts.

The case Mr. Walters is defending takes the tactic to another level. Rather than showing broad availability of sex-related Web sites, he is trying to show both accessibility and interest in the material within the jurisdiction of the First Circuit Court for Santa Rosa County, where the trial is taking place.

The search data he is using is available through a service called Google Trends (trends.google.com). It allows users to compare search trends in a given area, showing, for instance, that residents of Pensacola are more likely to search for sexual terms than some more wholesome ones.

Mr. Walters chose Pensacola because it is the only city in the court’s jurisdiction that is large enough to be singled out in the service’s data.

“We tried to come up with comparison search terms that would embody typical American values,” Mr. Walters said. “What is more American than apple pie?” But according to the search service, he said, “people are at least as interested in group sex and orgies as they are in apple pie.”

The Google service does, however, show the relative strength of many mainstream queries in Pensacola: “Nascar,” “surfing” and “Nintendo” all beat “orgy.”

Chris Hansen, a staff lawyer for the national office of the American Civil Liberties Union, called the tactic clever and novel, but said it underscored the power of the Internet to reveal personal preferences — something that raises concerns about the collection of personal information.

“That’s why a lot of people are nervous about Google or Yahoo having all this data,” he said.

One question is whether the judge in the case will admit the data as evidence; it was given only in a deposition this month. Mr. Walters said he was confident the information would be allowable given that there has been a growing reliance on such data.

Russ Edgar, the Florida state prosecutor, said he was still assessing whether he would try to block the search data’s use in court. He declined to discuss the case’s specifics, but said that the popularity of sex-related Web sites had no bearing on whether Mr. Edgar was in violation of community standards.

“How many times you do something doesn’t necessarily speak to standards and values,” he said.

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Post by Molyneux »

Someone who didn't think his logic through wrote:Russ Edgar, the Florida state prosecutor, said he was still assessing whether he would try to block the search data’s use in court. He declined to discuss the case’s specifics, but said that the popularity of sex-related Web sites had no bearing on whether Mr. Edgar was in violation of community standards.

“How many times you do something doesn’t necessarily speak to standards and values,” he said.
So...apparently it's possible for the community at large to fall short of...community standards? I hope that the judge has a good long laugh over this, then tells the prosecutor to suck it up. :D
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Post by Plekhanov »

Molyneux wrote:So...apparently it's possible for the community at large to fall short of...community standards? I hope that the judge has a good long laugh over this, then tells the prosecutor to suck it up. :D
Obviously community standards means 'standards people self righteously pretend to have when they think someone's looking' not 'the way the community actually behaves' only a atheisticcommienazisatanist would think otherwise.
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Post by CmdrWilkens »

The only point that one could make for the prosecution (and it is a good one) is that the data only indicates the number of searches total. It doesn't indicate the number of unique computers searching for the terms. So if my wife and I were the only people in Bumfuck, Somewhere and I searched for "anal beads" on 10 occasions in May and she searched for "Casserole" twice it woudl look like anal beads are 5x as popular as casserole when there are only 2 unique searchers and they are evenly divided between sexual and non-sexual searches.
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Post by Straha »

Plekhanov wrote:
Molyneux wrote:So...apparently it's possible for the community at large to fall short of...community standards? I hope that the judge has a good long laugh over this, then tells the prosecutor to suck it up. :D
Obviously community standards means 'standards people self righteously pretend to have when they think someone's looking' not 'the way the community actually behaves' only a atheisticcommienazisatanist would think otherwise.
Actually not always. The contemporary community standards clause (as applied by the FCC) can be a blessing in disguise. Imagine, if you will, that you are a radio broadcaster in New York City and you say the word "Asshole". Imagine a family from Godtown, GA is driving through and hears you say that and then files a complaint with the FCC. The FCC would then look at the location of the complaint, namely NYC, laugh its ass off and not bother following through with it.

I've been involved with the radio business for some time now and I can honestly say that the FCC are a bunch of crazy motherfuckers who should be put out of their own miserable existence along with the assholes like the prosecutor in this case. But the rules they have sometimes work out rather well for the lucky people in free and open communities.
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Post by Qwerty 42 »

A number of people haved bemoaned the FCC becoming a morality police since Super Bowl XXXVIII. So many people complained about that incident that the FCC felt compelled to step out of what it's actually supposed to be doing, namely infrastructure.
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Post by Rogue 9 »

Qwerty 42 wrote:A number of people haved bemoaned the FCC becoming a morality police since Super Bowl XXXVIII. So many people complained about that incident that the FCC felt compelled to step out of what it's actually supposed to be doing, namely infrastructure.
Oh, bullshit. The FCC had been exceeding its mandate for decades before Superbowl XXXVIII; need I remind you of the Seven Dirty Words?
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Post by The Yosemite Bear »

Rogue 9 wrote:
Qwerty 42 wrote:A number of people haved bemoaned the FCC becoming a morality police since Super Bowl XXXVIII. So many people complained about that incident that the FCC felt compelled to step out of what it's actually supposed to be doing, namely infrastructure.
Oh, bullshit. The FCC had been exceeding its mandate for decades before Superbowl XXXVIII; need I remind you of the Seven Dirty Words?
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Post by Tsyroc »

Since this is in Pensacola, Fl I'm a little surprised that they have tried to fight the guy's statistics by saying it's all the pervy sailors and other service members skewing the community standards. :D

It's actually probably true. All the squids, former squids and their families make Pensacola a little less socially conservative than some of the surrounding areas in Alabama and Florida.
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Post by Darth Yoshi »

Nonsense. Are you insinuating that good ol' American boys don't live up to the wholesome standards of the American people? How dare you, sir. Why do you hate America? :)
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