Force sub Ia Drang Valley

[Typhonis 1]

alright Force sub Brokken Arrow the fighting force is an airmobile unit of 350 soldiers listed below they have what small arms ,grenades and heavy weapons they can take with them no vehicles save aircraft. They face a well armed group of 4000 enemy soldiers ,armed as well as the main group. How long till they cry Brokken Arrow IE theyre about to be over run?

[Rob Wilson]

alright Force sub Brokken Arrow the fighting force is an airmobile unit of 350 soldiers listed below they have what small arms ,grenades and heavy weapons they can take with them no vehicles save aircraft. They face a well armed group of 4000 enemy soldiers ,armed as well as the main group. How long till they cry Brokken Arrow IE theyre about to be over run?

Strange, my original reply has vanished .

oh well, once more; I chose the Gropos (shocked silence from the audience), because the Feds and Klingons can beam out when things look bad so won't get overrun, technically they will be calling an Evac. Of the remainder, the Gropos has the least Body armour so should take more casualties faster leading to a faster time for them to be overrun.

If there's no beaming, or orbital support for them, then it would be the Feds (the Klingons are too stupid to even realise they're being overrun - or too busy writing songs about dying honourably ).

[Darth Wong]

OK, who the fuck voted that the stormies would cry uncle FIRST? Let's look at our contestants, listed in order of failure (note that I'm assuming their ingress/egress is the same helicopters used by the original force, so the capabilities of their respective aircraft (or transporters, in the case of the Feds) don't come into play:

1. Klingon warriors. They go down first. They're complete morons, they carry only handguns and knives, and their heaviest weapons are the most laughably feeble mortars in history. To paraphrase one of Sean Connery's characters, only an idiot Klingon brings a knife to a gunfight.
2. Federation pajama-boys: you've got to be kidding me. They stand up in their brightly coloured pajamas and get mowed down by machine-gun fire from the trees. They get overrun almost immediately. Phaser sweeps inflict casualties upon the attackers, but it is nowhere near enough.
3. EA gropos. They're a bit of a wildcard because we don't know much about them, but if we judge them by the security forces on B5, they're toast. If we judge them by the fact that Sheridan (a naval officer) is pulling double-duty as their top genral's tactical advisor in one episode, they have the same ridiculous jack-of-all-trades mentality as the Federation and they're toast.
4. Wookies get overrun quickly. They lack the body armour of the stormtroopers, and their cultural emphasis on individual warrior skills rather than co-ordinated military action will prove their undoing.
5. Rebel Hoth troopers. These boys will last longer than the pajama-boys or the wookies, but they still go down. They've got lethal weapons, but so did the original air cavalry soldiers who went in there. They're simply too badly outnumbered, and they lack the kind of special advantages the stormtroopers enjoy.
6. Stormtroopers: armed with a variety of small-arms and heavy weapons, not to mention nearly full-coverage body armour, NBC protection, and thermal-imaging in their helmets. Since their attackers are armed with nothing but assault rifles, the stormies take almost no casualties and never get overrun at all. They easily ward off the attacks in daytime, pick off targets ruthlessly in the dark of night, and unleash nerve gas if it ever gets dicey.
7. Heinlein MI. The standard by which all other uber-technowank ground combat is judged. Since they take advantage of scientific ignorance to achieve the impossible, they are obviously the strongest force here.

[Typhonis 1]

actually I posted two groups of MI the ones from the books and the...ones from the movie

[CmdrWilkens]

Well I'm slightly reversing on Mike's idea in that the Klingons at least maintain some amount of boy armor and despite lacking any indirect fire weaponry they should be able to do a decent job of creating casualties. The Feds on the other hand are just praying to be wiped out by GPMG fire in the first moments after they land.

As to the rest EA lacks, near as I can recall, the medium range and indirect fire weaponry to take on the NVA however. The same is true with the Wookies, they are essentially a bunch of riflemen whose biggest advantage is their natural camoflage that shoudl help towards evening though their emphasis on personal honor in a situation where they are outnumbered will hurt them.

Now the Hoth troopers (assuming they aren't wearing those particular uniforms as they will sweat to death in the first 5 minutes) would probably do as well if not better than the original 7th Cav. I say this because they have a longer ranged and more powerful rifle and GPMG. The Medium Repeating Balster cannon looks to be about the equivalent of a 50cal yet it is operable by one man which gives a LOT of firepower to various unit.

The stormies are gonna win period. it is unlikely that the NVA will be able to really kill any of them without sustained fire against single targets adn teh Stormtroopers have the same advantages in rifle and GPMG firepower that the Hoth troopers have.

MI (Book) They toast everyone. They have mobility almost as if they are sitll in the helis while being armored like in a tank with the firepower of a modern IFV plus mini nukes. Short of Bolos there really isn't a way to make this contest more one sided.

[Sea Skimmer]

The Federation forces would only escape, because they'd run away before even a quarter of there force could land. That quarter would be wiped out. The Klingons would do the opposite, at least until the LZ was blocked by there wrecked aircraft.

I'm a bit confused here tough, I thought the premise was that the NVA had similar weaponry to the sub force? Otherwise theres no point to having the Stormtroopers or MI here, both would be near incincabul, and if the Stormtroopers had there LAAT's they could wipe out most of the NVA before even landing.

[Darth Wong]

I thought the idea was that they deployed from the same helicopters as the original force, with the same support, but with their own weapons.

[Sea Skimmer]

I thought the idea was that they deployed from the same helicopters as the original force, with the same support, but with their own weapons.

they have what small arms ,grenades and heavy weapons they can take with them no vehicles save aircraft.

That would imply it's a total sub, not just personal arms. Either that, or where only switching the personal, they all get 1965 US Army equipment.

[CmdrWilkens]

they have what small arms ,grenades and heavy weapons they can take with them no vehicles save aircraft.

That would imply it's a total sub, not just personal arms. Either that, or where only switching the personal, they all get 1965 US Army equipment.

Its a sub in the sense that we are subbing equivalent units. In other words this is an infantry-only fight along with CAS if you have it.

[Sea Skimmer]

they have what small arms ,grenades and heavy weapons they can take with them no vehicles save aircraft.

That would imply it's a total sub, not just personal arms. Either that, or where only switching the personal, they all get 1965 US Army equipment.

Its a sub in the sense that we are subbing equivalent units. In other words this is an infantry-only fight along with CAS if you have it.

But the big problem is, are the VC getting subbed equipment as well, to match that used by the attacking force. Only Typhonis can answer that.

[Typhonis 1]

Rebel forces are as well armed as the forces attacking them

[The Yosemite Bear]

Somehow I think the Fed's would really be saying is:
"Mommy", followed by retching when the arms and other body parts started flopping their way during the Motar attack, then babbling their heads off before they even faced a real interrogation.

[Anarchist Bunny]

How forested is the area they are fighting in? That could give the wookies the advantage over the rebels in this fight. They do live on top of a giant forest world, so they'd be fighting from a high, slightly covered position and be able to move almost undetected.

[Darth Wong]

How forested is the area they are fighting in? That could give the wookies the advantage over the rebels in this fight. They do live on top of a giant forest world, so they'd be fighting from a high, slightly covered position and be able to move almost undetected.

At La Drang Valley, the Americans landed in a big clearing about the size of a few football fields IIRC, and were promptly attacked by a numerically superior Vietnamese force. They took heavy casualties but survived the onslaught through the use of artillery, air support, and overlapping fields of machine-gun fire. The tall grass was probably a contributor to their ability to stay alive.

[Sea Skimmer]

The LZ at La Drang could hold just two UH-1's at a time. Intel only reported a few dispersed companies of VC in the area, so that shouldn't have been a problem. As it was there where about 2000 VC attacking by the time only 150 troops had been unloaded.