Glenn Beck defines "conservative" for us

[Morilore]

I can't believe he lumped housing and health care in with "Hummers." Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with him? Does he think housing and health care are luxuries that one should just endure not having?

[Jim Raynor]

A conservative believes that people have a right to worship the God of their understanding. We also believe that people do not have the right to jam their version of God (or no God) down anybody else's throat.

Thinly-veiled retread of the familiar retarded fundie catchphrase "Freedom of religion, not freedom FROM religion."

A conservative believes that a child's education is the responsibility of the parents, not the government.

Because most parents out there are qualified teachers. Oh, wait.

[MKSheppard]

Fuck you, Mr. Beck. The only reason for that state of affairs arising at all is on the antigovernment, right wing Bush maladministration slashing hurricane protection and levee reconstruction budgets by 50-90% for four years

Yes, nevermind that many of the leevees outside of the Corps of Engineer's purvew were dangerously substandard; it's all the fault of the evil Bushstapo for placing C-4 into each levee so they'd break and drown the brown people (TM).

and turning FEMA into a haven of cronyism which destroyed the agency's effectiveness.

You don't fucking get it do you, Degan? You're too wrapped up in your own personal tale of woe over New Orleans to sit back and look at things from a distance. FEMA has always been a place to dump cronies, going back to it's creation, due to the generally lackadaisal attitude in the US towards Civil Defense.

[Mayabird]

That "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" line sorta comes from John Locke, except the original line was "life, liberty, and property." Thomas Jefferson fudged the line because saying that people have a right to property (namely, land) in a place where most of the property was owned by a small elite would be...troubling to him, to say the least.

Of course, if you don't know your history and then saint people in it, then you don't even know the original intent while trying to claim things based on original intent (and as it's been pointed out, tradition isn't really a legitimate reason to do things anyway), then you just come out as a doubly-stupid douchebag.

[SirNitram]

A random blogger has as much credibility as Beck. So I'll quote one, for S&G's.

It must be really scary to be a conservative. To be one, you must live in constant fear of terrorists nuking the United States, of gay people on the verge of convincing you that you really enjoy sodomy, of Spanish becoming the official language of the United States next week, of every African-American voting seven or eight times in the next election, of radical Islam suddenly becoming the latest hip thing among kids across the country, of perpetual lesbian orgies in girls bathrooms in high schools across America, of liberals forcing everyone to become a vegan, of Christians being rounded up into concentration camps, and of Democrats outlawing private property if they were to ever take power again.

Of course, when you realize that one of the endless Shock Jocks like Beck recently said this...

By the way, I -- I'm still trying to find two tickets to the Ohio State-USC game. And none of the USC people will give up their tickets to me. I'd pay fair price. They -- they know Ohio State's gonna slaughter the Trojans. They know that they're gonna slaughter the Trojans, and therefore they do not want me there at the bloodbath, since it's probably the last football game we'll ever get to see before the United States gets blown up by the Islamists under Obama.

..You realize perhaps said blogger might be on to something.

[aerius]

A conservative believes that there are no protections against the hardship and heartache of failure. We believe that the right to fail is just as important as the chance to succeed and that those who do fail learn essential lessons that will help them the next time around.

A conservative believes in personal responsibility and accepts the consequences for his or her words and actions.

A conservative believes that debt creates unhealthy relationships. Everyone, from the government on down, should live within their means and strive for financial independence.

Sure, so when are you going to make all those Wall Street bankers eat their shit sandwiches and do the perp parade? Why aren't you at the protest in D.C. today to ram those countless billions in housing related losses up the banker's asses?

[Patrick Degan]

Fuck you, Mr. Beck. The only reason for that state of affairs arising at all is on the antigovernment, right wing Bush maladministration slashing hurricane protection and levee reconstruction budgets by 50-90% for four years

Yes, nevermind that many of the leevees outside of the Corps of Engineer's purvew were dangerously substandard; it's all the fault of the evil Bushstapo for placing C-4 into each levee so they'd break and drown the brown people (TM).

Yes it is, asshole-who-knows-dick-of-what-he-speaks. And you can take your strawman and shove it up your ass.

and turning FEMA into a haven of cronyism which destroyed the agency's effectiveness.

You don't fucking get it do you, Degan? You're too wrapped up in your own personal tale of woe over New Orleans to sit back and look at things from a distance. FEMA has always been a place to dump cronies, going back to it's creation, due to the generally lackadaisal attitude in the US towards Civil Defense.

I get things far more than you do, moron. FEMA's response to other disasters, under other administrations, showed far more effectiveness and efficiency than what was seen by not only the citizens of New Orleans but also of the Gulf Coast when Katrina hit. The budget cuts which were instituted by Bush are fact. The appointment of a big political contributor who's qualification for the job at FEMA was managing a horse ranch is FACT. Folding the agency into Homeland Security and taking away its independence is FACT.

Go play in traffic, little boy.

[Kanastrous]

Can he find actual working examples of powerful, successful nations in history which had almost no government?

Compared to the US, the Mongols were pretty light on government.

[darthbob88]

Can he find actual working examples of powerful, successful nations in history which had almost no government?

Compared to the US, the Mongols were pretty light on government.

On the other hand, how long did the Mongol Empire actually last? IIRC, the largest empire ever on this planet splintered after the death of Genghis Khan. That's a powerful empire all right, but not a successful one.

[Guardsman Bass]

I wonder if "the conservative" Glenn Beck homeschools his own kids - you know, with believing that education is the "responsibility of the parents". Somehow, I doubt it.

[Plekhanov]

A conservative believes that people go to the movies to be entertained and to church to be preached to, not the other way around.

Unless of course the film is preaching theocratic ignorance.

A conservative believes that family is the cornerstone of our society and that people have a right to manage their family any way they see fit, so long as it's not criminal. We are far more attuned to our family's needs than some faceless, soulless government program.

Unless of course they 'see fit' that they want to start a family with someone of the same sex.

Why is it that self described conservatives have such a compulsion to be so jaw droppingly hypcritical?

[Rye]

IIRC, the largest empire ever on this planet splintered after the death of Genghis Khan. That's a powerful empire all right, but not a successful one.

The British Empire splintered on the death of Genghis Khan?

I cannot fathom why Mr Beck has a soapbox in the first place. Is it CNN cynically trying to court the vast swathes of idiot right wingers away from FOX or what?

[Adrian Laguna]

"The pursuit of happiness" is also the most ridiculous "right" to ever be put to paper. The reason people continually cite it is the fact that they can't bring themselves to admit that rights alone do not constitute a complete ethics system.

It's also taken out of context. Jefferson was just re-stating beliefs already inherent to English Common Law, namely that a just government cannot deprive its citizens of certain things, or interfere in their affairs, without cause. That specific phrase was just a bit of poetry that Benjamin Franklin threw in because he was Benjamin fucking Franklin. The original version read "Life, Liberty, and Property", which was a straight quote from John Locke's works.

Government programs are run by people, just like any charity or church. This "faceless soulless" rhetoric is nothing more than obvious demonization.

Amusingly, this same argument is the same the conservatives trot out when people call corporations evil. Apparently faceless drones turn into smiling engines of charity when under private employment. Never mind that you average corporation's raison d'etre is profit, not helping people.

[Plekhanov]

Apparently 'conservatives' also believe in summarily executing people they suspect of being 'against us'

We’re going to shoot them all in the head. If we think that they are against us, we’re going to shoot them and kill them, period. Because that’s the only thing we’ve got going for us is we can put them away and get information. If we can’t put them away and they’re going to use our court system, kill them.

[Stormbringer]

and turning FEMA into a haven of cronyism which destroyed the agency's effectiveness.

You don't fucking get it do you, Degan? You're too wrapped up in your own personal tale of woe over New Orleans to sit back and look at things from a distance. FEMA has always been a place to dump cronies, going back to it's creation, due to the generally lackadaisal attitude in the US towards Civil Defense.

I get things far more than you do, moron. FEMA's response to other disasters, under other administrations, showed far more effectiveness and efficiency than what was seen by not only the citizens of New Orleans but also of the Gulf Coast when Katrina hit. The budget cuts which were instituted by Bush are fact. The appointment of a big political contributor who's qualification for the job at FEMA was managing a horse ranch is FACT. Folding the agency into Homeland Security and taking away its independence is FACT.

Go play in traffic, little boy.

And I suppose George Bush snuck in during the night to steal the evacuation plans and procedures of every single government body and official in the affected states? Presumably he also picked up the black mail materials to make them all act like self-centered, ego maniacal, and corrupt assholes?

Face the facts, no official from the top to the bottom was prepared for Katrina despite the fact that people have known about, and in other places prepared for, the dangers of hurricane and storm induced flooding of such low lying (aka under fucking sea level) coastal areas. No one really wanted to admit that the situation was disaster waiting to happen and what happened was direct result of that non-activity. The lack of planning and foresight was damned evident and contributed a whole fucking lot compared to states like Florida, the Carolinas, or even, Jeebus save us, Texas. The fact that most of the dumb bastards were and still are waiting for the magic FEMA fairy to come along and make everything right explains a whole lot about why things are still so terminally fucked.

Government programs are run by people, just like any charity or church. This "faceless soulless" rhetoric is nothing more than obvious demonization.

Amusingly, this same argument is the same the conservatives trot out when people call corporations evil. Apparently faceless drones turn into smiling engines of charity when under private employment. Never mind that you average corporation's raison d'etre is profit, not helping people.

Which says more about the bugaboos and blind spots of the respective sides than it does about the tendency of humans beings to be total bastards when removed from most consequences of their actions.

[Spyder]

Convervatism - Pissing on someone if they're on fire is purely optional. It's your piss and the government has no right to dictate what you do with it.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Has Stormbringer admitted he voted for Bush in '04 and is going to vote for McCain in '08 yet? And that he's skeptical of climate change and pro-staying the course? Because he is the most obvious case of a stubborn crypto-right-winger we have. Its so obvious.

[Stormbringer]

Has Stormbringer admitted he voted for Bush in '04 and is going to vote for McCain in '08 yet? And that he's skeptical of climate change and pro-staying the course? Because he is the most obvious case of a stubborn crypto-right-winger we have. Its so obvious.

Didn't vote for Bush in '04; wrote in McCain largely out of disgust with Bush and Kerry. Voted for Obama already in the primaries and will do so again in the general election. As for political persuasion, you can drop the crypto part as I've never made any secret of that fact that I am more or less on the conservative side of the fence.

[Patrick Degan]

You don't fucking get it do you, Degan? You're too wrapped up in your own personal tale of woe over New Orleans to sit back and look at things from a distance. FEMA has always been a place to dump cronies, going back to it's creation, due to the generally lackadaisal attitude in the US towards Civil Defense.

I get things far more than you do, moron. FEMA's response to other disasters, under other administrations, showed far more effectiveness and efficiency than what was seen by not only the citizens of New Orleans but also of the Gulf Coast when Katrina hit. The budget cuts which were instituted by Bush are fact. The appointment of a big political contributor who's qualification for the job at FEMA was managing a horse ranch is FACT. Folding the agency into Homeland Security and taking away its independence is FACT.

Go play in traffic, little boy.

And I suppose George Bush snuck in during the night to steal the evacuation plans and procedures of every single government body and official in the affected states? Presumably he also picked up the black mail materials to make them all act like self-centered, ego maniacal, and corrupt assholes?

Which has exactly what to do with the defunding of levee maintenance and reconstruction and the declawing of FEMA from 2001-2005? Fuck-all? Thought so.

Face the facts, no official from the top to the bottom was prepared for Katrina despite the fact that people have known about, and in other places prepared for, the dangers of hurricane and storm induced flooding of such low lying (aka under fucking sea level) coastal areas. No one really wanted to admit that the situation was disaster waiting to happen and what happened was direct result of that non-activity. The lack of planning and foresight was damned evident and contributed a whole fucking lot compared to states like Florida, the Carolinas, or even, Jeebus save us, Texas. The fact that most of the dumb bastards were and still are waiting for the magic FEMA fairy to come along and make everything right explains a whole lot about why things are still so terminally fucked.

Facts, eh:

6. Chertoff falsely minimized federal government's role in Katrina response as subordinate to states

The Bush administration has responded to criticism of its role in the Katrina disaster by attempting to deflect blame onto state and local officials in Louisiana [The New York Times, 9/5/05 ]. One way they are doing that is to claim that the federal government's role in a natural disaster of this magnitude is to provide support to state and local governments and work at their behest. Conservative media figures immediately fell into line, echoing the administration's claim that the federal government's role was subordinate (see here and here). In fact, the Department of Homeland Security's December 2004 National Response Plan clearly indicates that in these situations, the federal government will pre-empt state and local efforts and provide immediate assistance to the affected area.

On Sept. 1, two days after the levees were breached, Chertoff, at a press conference announcing the start of "National Preparedness Month 2005," characterized the federal role in response to Katrina as that of providing support to state and local officials: "The Department of Homeland Security will continue to work with federal, state and local partners to support efforts on the ground in Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi and Florida. We are working tirelessly to make sure that federal resources are being applied where they are needed all across the Gulf" [Federal News Service, 9/1/05]. But on Sept. 2, Chertoff told reporters that the situation had changed and that federal agencies would now take over the primary role: "The fact of the matter is, this set of catastrophes has broken any mold for how you deal with this kind of weather devastation, and so we're going to break the mold in terms of how we respond. The federal government is not going to play merely its customary role in giving all necessary support to first responders. The federal government is going to step up and take a primary role, working with state and locals to deal with the outcome of this tragedy." [National Public Radio, 9/3/05]

But Chertoff's Sept. 1 statement ignored the administration's own homeland security response plan, which directed the federal government to act on its own authority to quickly provide assistance and conduct emergency operations following a major catastrophe, pre-empting state and local authorities if necessary. According to DHS' December 2004 National Response Plan (NRP), "catastrophic events," such as what occurred in New Orleans, call for heightened and "proactive" federal involvement to manage the disaster. The response plan listed "guiding principles" to govern the response to these major events. The "Guiding Principles for Proactive Federal Response" make clear that, in these "catastrophic" cases, the federal government will operate independently to provide assistance, rather than simply supporting or cajoling state authorities:

* The primary mission is to save lives; protect critical infrastructure, property, and the environment; contain the event; and preserve national security.

* Standard procedures regarding requests for assistance may be expedited or, under extreme circumstances, suspended in the immediate aftermath of an event of catastrophic magnitude.

* Identified Federal response resources will deploy and begin necessary operations as required to commence life-safety activities.

* Notification and full coordination with States will occur, but the coordination process must not delay or impede the rapid deployment and use of critical resources. States are urged to notify and coordinate with local governments regarding a proactive Federal response.

* State and local governments are encouraged to conduct collaborative planning with the Federal Government as a part of "steady-state" preparedness for catastrophic incidents."

The NRP also says that, when responding to a catastrophic incident, the federal government should start emergency operations even in the absence of clear assessment of the situation. "A detailed and credible common operating picture may not be achievable for 24 to 48 hours (or longer) after the incident," the NRP's "Catastrophic Annex" states. "As a result, response activities must begin without the benefit of a detailed or complete situation and critical needs assessment."

A Sept. 5 Los Angeles Times article quoted former FEMA chief of staff Jane Bullock saying that "[t]he moment the president declared a federal disaster [on Aug 29], it became a federal responsibility. ... The federal government took ownership over the response." Moreover, DHS' own website declares that DHS "will assume primary responsibility on March 1st [2005] for ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared for any situation. This will entail providing a coordinated, comprehensive federal response to any large-scale crisis and mounting a swift and effective recovery effort."

7. Wash. Post, Newsweek, Gingrich falsely claimed that Blanco did not declare a state of emergency

In recent days, two news articles falsely reported that Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco had failed to declare a state of emergency, which had supposedly hampered the federal response. An article in the Sept. 13 edition of Newsweek claimed that "Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco seemed uncertain and sluggish, hesitant to declare martial law or a state of emergency, which would have opened the door to more Pentagon help." Likewise, a Sept. 4 Washington Post article incorrectly claimed that "As of Saturday [Sept. 3], Blanco still had not declared a state of emergency," citing an anonymous senior Bush administration official. (The Washington Post's article was later corrected, although Newsweek has yet to correct its article.) Fox News political analyst Newt Gingrich repeated the point on the September 5 O'Reilly Factor, saying, "As you [O'Reilly] point out, the governor [Blanco] failed to call the emergency. And initially, it was the governor who had to call an emergency." In fact, as the Post later noted, Blanco declared a state of emergency (PDF) on August 26.

And:

First of all, it didn’t have to happen. It’s no secret that New Orleans sits in a geographic “bowl,” the bottom of which is ten feet lower than the nearby Gulf of Mexico. The Gulf, the Mississippi River and Lake Pontchartrain all tower above the vulnerable city, held back by an aging levee system perpetually sinking into the muck that is southern Louisiana. For New Orleans, the question has long been “when,” not “if.” In 1995, with hurricanes growing more numerous and powerful (dare we say, “global warming?”), the U.S. Congress created the Southeastern Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project (SELA)—the agency tasked with preventing New Orleans from becoming New Atlantis. The feds funded the project at $430 million and hoped to complete it by 2005. So far, so good.

New Orleans and Fallujah: Two Victims of War

Then came the George W. Bush administration. By 2003, they cut SELA funding to what the New Orleans Times-Picayune described as a “trickle.” By 2004 the Bush administration slashed SELA funding over 44 percent from its 2001 level, funding only 20 percent of the Army Corps of Engineers 2005 SELA budget. This brought construction to a halt on the mostly completed project. Corps officials, according to numerous Times-Picayune articles, cite the cost of the Iraq War and the Bush tax cuts (for the wealthiest Americans) as the reasons for slashing the SELA budget.

Fast forward to Hurricane Katrina. New Orleans’ 15-foot tall levees were no match for Katrina’s promised category five winds and 30- to 40-foot tidal surge. But the storm dropped to a level four and veered east, devastating the Mississippi coast and sparing the Big Easy from the brunt of its force. New Orleans residents awoke the next day and breathed a collective sigh of relief, seemingly having dodged the bullet and sustaining only superficial damage.

But then two flimsy sections of the levee burst—unable to withstand the increased pressure from Lake Pontchartrain’s swelled waters and the city started, in water torture fashion, to slowly fill with floodwaters. The flooding was an all-too-predictable event despite George W. Bush’s claim that “no one could have predicted the levees would break.”

In fact, a report written in the spring of 2001 (before 9/11), the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) identified a direct hurricane hit on New Orleans one of the country’s three biggest threats. The two others were a terrorist attack in New York and an earthquake in California.

Last year Time wrote about the danger levees bursting and water flooding into the city from Lake Pontchartrain, saying, “What would ultimately remain of the city may not be worth preserving.” And as recently as July 18, a few weeks before Katrina was even a tropical breeze, U.S. News had a feature article titled “Big Blow in the Big Easy.” U.S. News prophetically cited the director of LSU’s hurricane studies department saying, “If a hurricane comes next month [which it did], New Orleans could no longer exist.” These are only three of countless warnings both nationally and locally that have been sounding for many years. Unlike the tortured search for memos and “warnings” of 9/11, disaster experts, the Army Corps of Engineers and previous FEMA administrators have been openly screaming in alarm to the Bush White House that New Orleans was in danger.

Now sure, you can say what you want about the failures of Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin. Unfortunately, any of that has fuck-all to do with the facts of Bush systematically defunding levee maintenance and reconstruction for four solid years, and the Department of Homeland Insecurity clearly abdicating its stated responsibilities for disaster response and instead attempting to hem, haw, outright lie about what a good job they were actually doing, and seeking scapegoats for their own incompetence and failure toward American citizens in dire distress.

In case this still doesn't pentrate, I'll state it in terms that should make the matter clear: IT'S FEMA'S FUCKING JOB TO BE ON-TIME AND ON THE SPOT FOR A MAJOR DISASTER and the Bush maladministration just about made sure it couldn't do so. Congress as far back as 1995 recognised the danger to New Orleans and had funded an extensive programme of levee reconstruction, and Bush and the Congressional Republicans proceeded to wreck that programme.

None of that has anything whatsoever to do with the failings of Mayor Nagin or Gov. Blanco. Had levee reconstruction been not only maintained at the initial $430 million level but also subsequently increased, the city's storm defences would have been stronger. Had FEMA not been declawed, disaster relief response would have been much quicker. Neither required exceptional competence on the parts of Nagin or Blanco to have occurred, but the actions of Bush and co. ensured that neither was in place on that day back in August of 2005 and as a result, New Orleans nearly died.

Those are the facts of the matter which you would do well to acquaint yourself with before taking up the position of defending Shep's idiocies or mounting your own soapbox.

[CaptainZoidberg]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the most common argument I heard for Bush in 2004 was "Kerry agrees that the Iraq war was a good idea, he's basically the same as Bush except he's a wimp so he won't keep you safe from terror or gay marriage".

I mean, honestly, I think the biggest problem with the Kerry campaign was a failiure to ever go on the offensive. I never remember him calling Bush on his absurd and unrealistic gay marriage amendment. Where did he actually show that the problems in America from 2000-2004 were Bush's fault? By saying that he would've started the war in Iraq, Kerry was giving up the ability to hold Bush accountable for the failures of said war.

[Darth Wong]

The Kerry campaign sucked, but frankly, the American people should have been ready to vote for a gerbil at that point, as long as it wasn't George W. Bush. The real problem was that the American people were too stupid and blinded by waving flags to see just what an awful president George W. Bush was.

Once one realized that George W. Bush was a monumental, colossal fuck-up and disgusting plutocrat of the highest order, then it would be a fairly simple step to conclude that any viable competitor need only demonstrate a pulse to be considered a worthwhile alternative. The fact that the American people demanded an ever-increasing proof of Kerry's superiority only goes to show that they were too fucking stupid to see the truth that was staring them in the face.

And yes, I'm including many participants on this board in that sweeping characterization. I remember getting into arguments on this forum during the 2004 campaign where I was attacked for declaring that "at least he's not Bush" was a perfectly valid argument.

[Fire Fly]

I don't know what it is about Becktard; I find him more annoying than Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, and Sean Hannity even though he is the least well known of the crazies. Maybe its because he's the least well known and that drives him to be more of a lunatic than all of the others.

[Stormbringer]

Which has exactly what to do with the defunding of levee maintenance and reconstruction and the declawing of FEMA from 2001-2005? Fuck-all? Thought so.

It has everything to do with your tribalistic idiocy in assigning unique blame to the Bush Administration when your own damned local elected officials made the same damned mistakes. No doubt that's to your brains partisan filter missed that point but it's there none the less. This was a case of people, several million of them in the affected areas alone, all systematically deciding to ignore the threat for decades. Hell, New Orleans has been flood prone from day one which amounts to several centuries.

[Darth Wong]

Which has exactly what to do with the defunding of levee maintenance and reconstruction and the declawing of FEMA from 2001-2005? Fuck-all? Thought so.

It has everything to do with your tribalistic idiocy in assigning unique blame to the Bush Administration when your own damned local elected officials made the same damned mistakes. No doubt that's to your brains partisan filter missed that point but it's there none the less. This was a case of people, several million of them in the affected areas alone, all systematically deciding to ignore the threat for decades. Hell, New Orleans has been flood prone from day one which amounts to several centuries.

Can you honestly not see that deliberately taking away funding from existing agencies and projects goes beyond merely failing to see the danger?

[Davis 51]

I don't know what it is about Becktard; I find him more annoying than Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, and Sean Hannity even though he is the least well known of the crazies. Maybe its because he's the least well known and that drives him to be more of a lunatic than all of the others.

It's the way he talks condescendingly while he spews his vile. He doesn't just preach. He does it in a way that says "Now you liberal pansies go to bed. Mommy and Daddy are talking about how to protect America from the Gay Mexican/Arab Islamofascist Atheistic Commie-Nazi Zombies." It makes you want to punch him in the face.