Glenn Beck defines "conservative" for us

[Davis 51]

I don't know what it is about Becktard; I find him more annoying than Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, and Sean Hannity even though he is the least well known of the crazies. Maybe its because he's the least well known and that drives him to be more of a lunatic than all of the others.

It's the way he talks condescendingly while he spews his vile. He doesn't just preach. He does it in a way that says "Now you liberal pansies go to bed. Mommy and Daddy are talking about how to protect America from the Gay Mexican/Arab Islamofascist Atheistic Commie-Nazi Zombies." It makes you want to punch him in the face.

[Stormbringer]

Can you honestly not see that deliberately taking away funding from existing agencies and projects goes beyond merely failing to see the danger?

Only to the minimal extent that reconsidering your purchase is different that not considering it at all.

[Darth Wong]

Can you honestly not see that deliberately taking away funding from existing agencies and projects goes beyond merely failing to see the danger?

Only to the minimal extent that reconsidering your purchase is different that not considering it at all.

Bullshit. When you're a peon or someone at a lower level of government, you can convince yourself that the experts are taking care of it, and ignore the problem. It may not be the smartest thing to do, but it's understandable. But when you're sitting at the top and you take away money from those experts, this is an entirely different level of negligence.

The fact is that de-funding of non-military federal agencies is not just a mistake; it is a central plank of conservative ideology, and has been since Reagan. New Orleans got drowned for it, and conservatives don't have the courage to admit they were wrong. To this day they continue to spout their rhetoric about "downsizing government", thus proving that not only is conservatism largely responsible for the problem, but if given a chance, it would do the exact same thing again. The fact is that only Big Government (something that's been hopelessly unpopular ever since Reagan except where the military is concerned) could have prevented this, and conservatives would rather lose another city than admit it.

[Patrick Degan]

Which has exactly what to do with the defunding of levee maintenance and reconstruction and the declawing of FEMA from 2001-2005? Fuck-all? Thought so.

It has everything to do with your tribalistic idiocy in assigning unique blame to the Bush Administration when your own damned local elected officials made the same damned mistakes. No doubt that's to your brains partisan filter missed that point but it's there none the less. This was a case of people, several million of them in the affected areas alone, all systematically deciding to ignore the threat for decades. Hell, New Orleans has been flood prone from day one which amounts to several centuries.

Interesting. I've demonstrated that the Bush defunding of levee protection and declawing of FEMA is a valid indictment of conservative ideologues like Beck, Bush et. al of their utter cluelessness and/or malign neglect, and you continue to argue points utterly irrelevant to that issue.

Really, you're full of bullshit.

[Rye]

I don't know what it is about Becktard; I find him more annoying than Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, and Sean Hannity even though he is the least well known of the crazies. Maybe its because he's the least well known and that drives him to be more of a lunatic than all of the others.

It's the way he talks condescendingly while he spews his vile. He doesn't just preach. He does it in a way that says "Now you liberal pansies go to bed. Mommy and Daddy are talking about how to protect America from the Gay Mexican/Arab Islamofascist Atheistic Commie-Nazi Zombies." It makes you want to punch him in the face.

I don't think it's the fact he's condescending that does it, but the fact he tries so hard to be condescending to engender liberal hatred towards him (so he can no doubt find and use the best ones from blogs and forums later), and it's painfully clear he's desperate to be notorious. I mean, someone posted that superdelegates thing a while ago, I think it was Rogue 9, and he kept saying "and you thought REPUBLICANS stole elections!" in his retarded voice. Well, republicans do and did steal elections, rather than merely electing party candidates, he was just trying way too hard with his polemics that he comes across as a childish numpty trying to be a smart contrarian like Christopher Hitchens.

[Davis 51]

I don't know what it is about Becktard; I find him more annoying than Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, and Sean Hannity even though he is the least well known of the crazies. Maybe its because he's the least well known and that drives him to be more of a lunatic than all of the others.

It's the way he talks condescendingly while he spews his vile. He doesn't just preach. He does it in a way that says "Now you liberal pansies go to bed. Mommy and Daddy are talking about how to protect America from the Gay Mexican/Arab Islamofascist Atheistic Commie-Nazi Zombies." It makes you want to punch him in the face.

I don't think it's the fact he's condescending that does it, but the fact he tries so hard to be condescending to engender liberal hatred towards him (so he can no doubt find and use the best ones from blogs and forums later), and it's painfully clear he's desperate to be notorious. I mean, someone posted that superdelegates thing a while ago, I think it was Rogue 9, and he kept saying "and you thought REPUBLICANS stole elections!" in his retarded voice. Well, republicans do and did steal elections, rather than merely electing party candidates, he was just trying way too hard with his polemics that he comes across as a childish numpty trying to be a smart contrarian like Christopher Hitchens.

You're right, now that I think about it. Unlike Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, and Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck seems to act that way for the sake of attention whoring. I suppose that is why it irks everyone so much.

I guess there is a sweet irony in the sense that his show is rated so badly.

[Alan Bolte]

The New Orleans issue isn't one I've paid a lot of attention to, let me see if I understand the time line:

1995
LA congressmen: Hey, guys, some experts think New Orleans could have some horrible flood the next time a hurricane hits, think we could do something about that?
Congress: Sure! We'll create a special organization for just that purpose, and then we'll even fund it!
2003
Bush: I need those SELA funds for this awesome war I started.
Congress: Sounds good!
2004
Nagin: Some people are complaining that SELA's funding has been cut, and the levees aren't done. Think we should do anything about this?
Blanco: No, I'm sure Bush and Congress know what they're doing. Besides, if all else fails FEMA has our back.
2005
Everybody: Shit! Shit! Fuck!

Have I got that about right?

[SirNitram]

The most damning allegations(Stress allegations; I don't know how proven they are.) are probably the ones from a recent book. I'll post what I considered the shocking bits. And a link to an excerpt with, I think, most of the examples I've given.

On Wednesday afternoon, Blanco called Bush and told him she needed "everything you've got." Since Bush promised to help, Blanco believed that assistance was arriving in the person of Army lieutenant general Russel Honore, who met with the governor. After a long and cordial discussion, Blanco asked Honore how many troops he had brought with him to Louisiana at the order of the president. "Just a handful of staffers," Blanco heard him say, much to her amazement. "I am here in an advisory capacity."

Blanco sought out Michael Chertoff. She found him in one of the emergency headquarters trailers. "Turn off the talking heads," she told him point-blank. "People are dying while you people are playing politics. Turn them off." It was Thursday, and so far the FEMA buses had still not arrived to help evacuate people from the Convention Center and Superdome, nor had Bush sent any federal troops, who were desperately needed in the search-and-rescue efforts. Instead of sending help, the administration had come up with a ploy. "I was on a conference call with the White House," Adam Sharp says, "where they were saying: If you want any help, you have to turn over all control of your state to the president. We won't help until you give us control of your National Guard and your law enforcement agencies, until Louisiana becomes a federal territory. They were using this as the excuse for their delaying on the issues. They kept trying to put it on Blanco. But no governor would ever give control of her state to the president."

Lemme get part of that again for emphasis...

"I was on a conference call with the White House," Adam Sharp says, "where they were saying: If you want any help, you have to turn over all control of your state to the president. We won't help until you give us control of your National Guard and your law enforcement agencies, until Louisiana becomes a federal territory.

What. The. Fuck.

Lots of conservative nutbars were suggesting it at the time as 'punishment', but that's just kind of a different level.

"Kathleen," Bush said in their meeting, which was attended by Joe Hagen from Bush's staff but no one from Blanco's staff -- a fact that troubled Blanco -- "I'm going to need you to sign a waiver that the Louisiana National Guard needs to be turned over to the federal government. I can't take them from you but I'm going to need you to federalize them."

Salon has an excerpt on the Katrina nonsense here, for those interested.

Certainly alot more damning than even the systematic defunding of emergency response: Exploiting it to gain yet more federal power.

[Stormbringer]

Which has exactly what to do with the defunding of levee maintenance and reconstruction and the declawing of FEMA from 2001-2005? Fuck-all? Thought so.

It has everything to do with your tribalistic idiocy in assigning unique blame to the Bush Administration when your own damned local elected officials made the same damned mistakes. No doubt that's to your brains partisan filter missed that point but it's there none the less. This was a case of people, several million of them in the affected areas alone, all systematically deciding to ignore the threat for decades. Hell, New Orleans has been flood prone from day one which amounts to several centuries.

Interesting. I've demonstrated that the Bush defunding of levee protection and declawing of FEMA is a valid indictment of conservative ideologues like Beck, Bush et. al of their utter cluelessness and/or malign neglect, and you continue to argue points utterly irrelevant to that issue.

Really, you're full of bullshit.

Of course it's damning. And the New Orleans cluster fuck is also damning of liberal idiots like you, a voter in fucking New Orleans that also ignored disaster preparation and prevention in favor of waiting for the wonderful, responsive federal government. The mess that resulted in Katrina is damning but not to any one ideology but to the whole system which put a city twelve feet under water and then gambled for decades that a storm wouldn't hit. This time the house won and New Orleans lost.

[Illuminatus Primus]

I don't know what it is about Becktard; I find him more annoying than Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, and Sean Hannity even though he is the least well known of the crazies. Maybe its because he's the least well known and that drives him to be more of a lunatic than all of the others.

I think because at least Bill O'reilly and Hannity and Limbaugh know why they're right-wingers, they're well-off rich guys and they're acting at least rationally consistent in their motivations. And its pretty clear O'reilly may be a liar, but he has some basic education. Beck is unabashedly ignorant and absurd; he quite obviously has no idea what he is talking about other than randomly surfing the Web. Its as if you took some Bachelor of Google from the heartland and gave him a show and a microphone. Its so disgraceful and pathetic.

[Illuminatus Primus]

And Stormbringer doesn't understand what the tu quoque fallacy is. It doesn't matter who fucked up at the state level, that doesn't mean you cannot pillory Bush for his cronyism and incompetence. The buck stops here? Ever hear of that? It happened under his watch while he was sanctimonious about "protecting Americans" at any cost, while simultaneously defunding protective measures. Its his fucking fault, and whining "libzburlz too!!!" means nothing. I can't recall the last time you didn't post to make some pathetic Bush cocksucking apologism.

[Illuminatus Primus]

They choose "responsibility of the parents" because it sounds better than saying your prospects and opportunities should be largely set at birth by who your parents are. That this will happen regardless is one thing, but to not even try to encourage equality of opportunity is to undermine the democratic state.

[Darth Wong]

I'm also sick of the way Stormbringer keeps treating "Democrat" and "liberal" as synonyms. That's the biggest pile of bullshit that I've ever heard, and one of the oldest tricks in the Rush Limbaugh/Sean Hannity book. It was a Democratic president who signed the fucking "Defense of Marriage Act". Does this mean that anti-gay discrimination is now a "liberal" idea?

The fact is that conservatives claim to be about downsizing government, and this is precisely what happened when Bush kicked the legs out beneath the agencies which could have prevented or mitigated the disaster. The conservatives got their wish. Trying to say that a Democrat fucked up too therefore "liberals" are also at fault is a gigantic pile of bullshit.

[Patrick Degan]

It has everything to do with your tribalistic idiocy in assigning unique blame to the Bush Administration when your own damned local elected officials made the same damned mistakes. No doubt that's to your brains partisan filter missed that point but it's there none the less. This was a case of people, several million of them in the affected areas alone, all systematically deciding to ignore the threat for decades. Hell, New Orleans has been flood prone from day one which amounts to several centuries.

Interesting. I've demonstrated that the Bush defunding of levee protection and declawing of FEMA is a valid indictment of conservative ideologues like Beck, Bush et. al of their utter cluelessness and/or malign neglect, and you continue to argue points utterly irrelevant to that issue.

Really, you're full of bullshit.

Of course it's damning. And the New Orleans cluster fuck is also damning of liberal idiots like you, a voter in fucking New Orleans that also ignored disaster preparation and prevention in favor of waiting for the wonderful, responsive federal government. The mess that resulted in Katrina is damning but not to any one ideology but to the whole system which put a city twelve feet under water and then gambled for decades that a storm wouldn't hit. This time the house won and New Orleans lost.

Seriously, take your Golden Mean bullshit and shove it back up your ass where your head evidently is. You have utterly failed to demonstrate how any of your spew invalidates the clear culpability of the Bush maladministration WHO DELIBERATELY DEFUNDED LEVEE RECONSTRUCTION AND DECLAWED FEMA SO IT WAS INCAPABLE OF DOING ITS MANDATED JOB. You have failed to demonstrate how the faults of either Nagin or Blanco invalidates the observation that had the levees been built according to the programme Clinton laid down and Congress passed back in 1995 in direct response to the very concern you insist everyone ignored, there would have been no levee failure and hence no flood. And you are clearly ignoring evidence presented in this very thread which contradicts your Limbaugh-speak on this issue.

Again, you are full of bullshit. Do yourself a favour and just kindly shut the fuck up about things you are very clearly ignorant of before you make an even bigger embarrassment of yourself than you already have.

[Spyder]

I'm also sick of the way Stormbringer keeps treating "Democrat" and "liberal" as synonyms. That's the biggest pile of bullshit that I've ever heard, and one of the oldest tricks in the Rush Limbaugh/Sean Hannity book. It was a Democratic president who signed the fucking "Defense of Marriage Act". Does this mean that anti-gay discrimination is now a "liberal" idea?

The fact is that conservatives claim to be about downsizing government, and this is precisely what happened when Bush kicked the legs out beneath the agencies which could have prevented or mitigated the disaster. The conservatives got their wish. Trying to say that a Democrat fucked up too therefore "liberals" are also at fault is a gigantic pile of bullshit.

You probably figured this out long ago, but Conservatives need simple targets with simple associations. See GWB, "You're either with us or against us" also see the constant use of conventional warfare in an attempt to fight unconventional wars.

Conservative inflexability means they will struggle with any issue of increased complexity. Critical thinking just isn't their thing.

[Stormbringer]

And Stormbringer doesn't understand what the tu quoque fallacy is. It doesn't matter who fucked up at the state level, that doesn't mean you cannot pillory Bush for his cronyism and incompetence.

And you prove that while you can spell big boy words like tu quoque you're either too dumb or too dishonest to use them right. I am not arguing that the Bush Administration did not do an adequate job, merely that such failings were in any way unique to Bush's take on conservative politics.

You have utterly failed to demonstrate how any of your spew invalidates the clear culpability of the Bush maladministration WHO DELIBERATELY DEFUNDED LEVEE RECONSTRUCTION AND DECLAWED FEMA SO IT WAS INCAPABLE OF DOING ITS MANDATED JOB.

And once again, the Bush Administration is culpable but so are the four decades of previous administrations! The Bush Administration didn't just suddenly up and swap out bum levees on you. They were designed inadequately, built inadequately, and were a catastrophe waiting to happen.

As for FEMA, I've acknowledged the fact that the cuts and poor leadership certainly made the situation worse. But unlike you I have the sense to recognize that the poor response was a result at least equally the result of poor planning to mitigate the danger in terms of reducing the risk, a near absolute lack of state and local leadership, and massive ongoing problems with corruption among those same organizations during the reconstruction. You complain that FEMA was more effective in other disasters, I wouldn't disagree, but a good part of that is that places like Florida or Texas were not nearly so brazen about letting people live the path of a catastrophe nor so utterly unprepared to deal with the significant risk of the levees breaking.

[Darth Wong]

The point which you continually refuse to acknowledge is that mindlessly issuing a general "downsize government" directive (which is a central conservative political ideal) was proven to be a bad idea by the Katrina disaster, yet conservatives are too goddamned stubborn or stupid to admit it.

Was it also stupid to build communities below sea level? Yes. But that does not refute the point. You keep bringing it back up but you keep refusing to see that it is a red-herring. Katrina demonstrated the folly of a central part of conservative policy, and the first instinct of every conservative was to find a way to spread the blame around, without asking themselves whether they should reconsider this policy.

[Patrick Degan]

And Stormbringer doesn't understand what the tu quoque fallacy is. It doesn't matter who fucked up at the state level, that doesn't mean you cannot pillory Bush for his cronyism and incompetence.

And you prove that while you can spell big boy words like tu quoque you're either too dumb or too dishonest to use them right. I am not arguing that the Bush Administration did not do an adequate job, merely that such failings were in any way unique to Bush's take on conservative politics.

You have utterly failed to demonstrate how any of your spew invalidates the clear culpability of the Bush maladministration WHO DELIBERATELY DEFUNDED LEVEE RECONSTRUCTION AND DECLAWED FEMA SO IT WAS INCAPABLE OF DOING ITS MANDATED JOB.

And once again, the Bush Administration is culpable but so are the four decades of previous administrations! The Bush Administration didn't just suddenly up and swap out bum levees on you. They were designed inadequately, built inadequately, and were a catastrophe waiting to happen.

Strawman, and one which again glosses over Bush's deliberate cuts to the levee-rebuilding programme which was dealing with that very problem you insist everybody was ignoring.

As for FEMA, I've acknowledged the fact that the cuts and poor leadership certainly made the situation worse. But unlike you I have the sense to recognize that the poor response was a result at least equally the result of poor planning to mitigate the danger in terms of reducing the risk, a near absolute lack of state and local leadership, and massive ongoing problems with corruption among those same organizations during the reconstruction. You complain that FEMA was more effective in other disasters, I wouldn't disagree, but a good part of that is that places like Florida or Texas were not nearly so brazen about letting people live the path of a catastrophe nor so utterly unprepared to deal with the significant risk of the levees breaking.

More Golden Mean bullshit and dishonesty from you. I'd urge you to stop digging your own grave in this thread, but you're evidently too stupid to take the advice.