[Coliseum] Death Penalty?

[SirNitram]

A plebe brought up the potential for a Coliseum debate on the US death penalty, no doubt spurred on by the recent ruling in SCOTUS. For or against, fellow Senators and Governers?(Not the penalty, for or against having the Coliseum used to debate it.)

[Sea Skimmer]

Too much about the death penalty is tied up in personal morals

[K. A. Pital]

I agree that this is a worthy topic for the debate, regardless of the subjective assessments issue.

There are many issues with the death penalty regarding the psychological effects on killers, victims and the general population; especially interesting would be discussing whether the death penalty leads to relatives being more keen to hide the criminal, or whether the death penalty leads to more motive for the criminal to kill a rape victim.

Also the DNA examination issue - I'd love to hear arguments against executing people whose crime in case of rape is proven by DNA exam. There's really no failure chance here.

[Broomstick]

Also the DNA examination issue - I'd love to hear arguments against executing people whose crime in case of rape is proven by DNA exam. There's really no failure chance here.

Actually, I can name three instances where DNA can lead one astray:

1) Identical twins - they will, of course, have identical DNA. If an accused criminal has such a twin you will need to make sure that you have the correct individual in such a set via means other than DNA.

2) Chimeras - these are people who actually have two sets of DNA, some cells having one set and some another. So, if the sperm/fluids shed during rape has a different DNA set than those in a typical buccal swab or in the bloodstream you could wind up with a false negative. There have been a couple of custody cases that wound up in the US courts over this very issue so it's not entirely theoretical, it really does happen even if it is rare.

3) Planting of false evidence - this would require a criminal with greater than average foresight, but really, what would stop someone from planting false DNA evidence to cover or confuse evidence?

[Knife]

Number one and number two can be found out, checked and either aquit or subjected to irrelevance with testing the DNA in the first place. If you're identical twin was in Europe when you supposedly did the crime, it's of little help to you.

But I digress, it is a cool idea.

[The Yosemite Bear]

also in the chimera cases we've had people who have had bone marrow transfusions. Thus they have different blood DNA then they have semen DNA....

which I guess means that my step-sister could frame her half brother for the murder of her abusive ex-spouse, because she's got his DNA and he's already in the system for a crime he's committed....

[Admiral Valdemar]

Actually, I can name three instances where DNA can lead one astray:

1) Identical twins - they will, of course, have identical DNA. If an accused criminal has such a twin you will need to make sure that you have the correct individual in such a set via means other than DNA.

2) Chimeras - these are people who actually have two sets of DNA, some cells having one set and some another. So, if the sperm/fluids shed during rape has a different DNA set than those in a typical buccal swab or in the bloodstream you could wind up with a false negative. There have been a couple of custody cases that wound up in the US courts over this very issue so it's not entirely theoretical, it really does happen even if it is rare.

3) Planting of false evidence - this would require a criminal with greater than average foresight, but really, what would stop someone from planting false DNA evidence to cover or confuse evidence?

It gets better. The UK DNA Database, the largest in the world, has been under fire for not holding whole genomic sequences. They keep only select groupings of base pairs, which drastically lowers the probability of a totally unique genetic fingerprint being on file. It is possible that a sufficient number of codons stored match that of another person being tested. While it is a small risk given the localised nature of such police investigations, it can still give ammunition against the infallible DNA test idea (again, like fingerprinting, many forensic scientists will tell you 100% accuracy is impossible anyway).

[Ender]

IIRC we enforce some kind of penalty on the losing party for these debates, correct? In that case, given the subjective nature of the topic, I would propose that we offer the competitors the right to wave punishment for losing. Seems a bit odd to me to punish someone who claims an objective fact is wrong as harshly as we do someone who claims a subjective fact is wrong.

[Spyder]

There's a punishment for losing? I thought we decided against that idea, for that very reason infact.

[Ted C]

I have nothing against such a debate in the coliseum, assuming there are coherent voices on each side.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Alyrium versus Ossus would be rather impressive to watch.

[Eleas]

I would support another official debate, if only to get the debates going. The subject isn't one I'm interested in, but that doesn't make it illegitimate.

[Kuja]

If anyone so desires to step up, it would be a fascinating debate to observe.

[Imperial Overlord]

There's a punishment for losing? I thought we decided against that idea, for that very reason infact.

We did decide against punishing the loser for a number of reasons, one of which being that it is quite possible to debate well and still lose. We kicked around the idea of a reward for the winner such as a temporary title, but never settled on anything.

[NecronLord]

I support this notion.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Though "Death Penalty" and "Flavian Collasium" kinda go hand in hand....