Does Having Kids Make You Happy?
Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital
-
- Sith Acolyte
- Posts: 6464
- Joined: 2007-09-14 11:46pm
- Location: SoCal
Does Having Kids Make You Happy?
I saw this and immediately thought of those 'pregnancy pact' girls and the whole a-baby-will-make-me-happy business...
***
When I was growing up, our former neighbors, whom we'll call the Sloans, were the only couple on the block without kids. It wasn't that they couldn't have children; according to Mr. Sloan, they just chose not to. All the other parents, including mine, thought it was odd—even tragic. So any bad luck that befell the Sloans—the egging of their house one Halloween; the landslide that sent their pool careering to the street below—was somehow attributed to that fateful decision they'd made so many years before. "Well," the other adults would say, "you know they never did have kids." Each time I visited the Sloans, I'd search for signs of insanity, misery or even regret in their superclean home, yet I never seemed to find any. From what I could tell, the Sloans were happy, maybe even happier than my parents, despite the fact that they were (whisper) childless.
My impressions may have been swayed by the fact that their candy dish was always full, but several studies now show that the Sloans could well have been more content than most of the traditional families around them. In Daniel Gilbert's 2006 book "Stumbling on Happiness," the Harvard professor of psychology looks at several studies and concludes that marital satisfaction decreases dramatically after the birth of the first child—and increases only when the last child has left home. He also ascertains that parents are happier grocery shopping and even sleeping than spending time with their kids. Other data cited by 2008's "Gross National Happiness" author, Arthur C. Brooks, finds that parents are about 7 percentage points less likely to report being happy than the childless.
The most recent comprehensive study on the emotional state of those with kids shows us that the term "bundle of joy" may not be the most accurate way to describe our offspring. "Parents experience lower levels of emotional well-being, less frequent positive emotions and more frequent negative emotions than their childless peers," says Florida State University's Robin Simon, a sociology professor who's conducted several recent parenting studies, the most thorough of which came out in 2005 and looked at data gathered from 13,000 Americans by the National Survey of Families and Households. "In fact, no group of parents—married, single, step or even empty nest—reported significantly greater emotional well-being than people who never had children. It's such a counterintuitive finding because we have these cultural beliefs that children are the key to happiness and a healthy life, and they're not."
Simon received plenty of hate mail in response to her research ("Obviously Professor Simon hates her kids," read one), which isn't surprising. Her findings shake the very foundation of what we've been raised to believe is true. In a recent NEWSWEEK Poll, 50 percent of Americans said that adding new children to the family tends to increase happiness levels. Only one in six (16 percent) said that adding new children had a negative effect on the parents' happiness. But which parent is willing to admit that the greatest gift life has to offer has in fact made his or her life less enjoyable?
Parents may openly lament their lack of sleep, hectic schedules and difficulty in dealing with their surly teens, but rarely will they cop to feeling depressed due to the everyday rigors of child rearing. "If you admit that kids and parenthood aren't making you happy, it's basically blasphemy," says Jen Singer, a stay-at-home mother of two from New Jersey who runs the popular parenting blog MammaSaid.net. "From baby-lotion commercials that make motherhood look happy and well rested, to commercials for Disney World where you're supposed to feel like a kid because you're there with your kids, we've made parenthood out to be one blissful moment after another, and it's disappointing when you find out it's not."
Is it possible that American parents have always been this disillusioned? Anecdotal evidence says no. In pre-industrial America, parents certainly loved their children, but their offspring also served a purpose—to work the farm, contribute to the household. Children were a necessity. Today, we have kids more for emotional reasons, but an increasingly complicated work and social environment has made finding satisfaction far more difficult. A key study by University of Wisconsin-Madison's Sara McLanahan and Julia Adams, conducted some 20 years ago, found that parenthood was perceived as significantly more stressful in the 1970s than in the 1950s; the researchers attribute part of that change to major shifts in employment patterns. The majority of American parents now work outside the home, have less support from extended family and face a deteriorating education and health-care system, so raising children has not only become more complicated—it has become more expensive. Today the U.S. Department of Agriculture estimates that it costs anywhere from $134,370 to $237,520 to raise a child from birth to the age of 17—and that's not counting school or college tuition. No wonder parents are feeling a little blue.
Societal ills aside, perhaps we also expect too much from the promise of parenting. The National Marriage Project's 2006 "State of Our Unions" report says that parents have significantly lower marital satisfaction than nonparents because they experienced more single and child-free years than previous generations. Twenty-five years ago, women married around the age of 20, and men at 23. Today both sexes are marrying four to five years later. This means the experience of raising kids is now competing with highs in a parent's past, like career wins ("I got a raise!") or a carefree social life ("God, this is a great martini!"). Shuttling cranky kids to school or dashing to work with spit-up on your favorite sweater doesn't skew as romantic.
For the childless, all this research must certainly feel redeeming. As for those of us with kids, well, the news isn't all bad. Parents still report feeling a greater sense of purpose and meaning in their lives than those who've never had kids. And there are other rewarding aspects of parenting that are impossible to quantify. For example, I never thought it possible to love someone as deeply as I love my son. As for the Sloans, it's hard to say whether they had a less meaningful existence than my parents, or if my parents were 7 percent less happy than the Sloans. Perhaps it just comes down to how you see the candy dish—half empty or half full. Or at least as a parent, that's what I'll keep telling myself.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/143792
***
When I was growing up, our former neighbors, whom we'll call the Sloans, were the only couple on the block without kids. It wasn't that they couldn't have children; according to Mr. Sloan, they just chose not to. All the other parents, including mine, thought it was odd—even tragic. So any bad luck that befell the Sloans—the egging of their house one Halloween; the landslide that sent their pool careering to the street below—was somehow attributed to that fateful decision they'd made so many years before. "Well," the other adults would say, "you know they never did have kids." Each time I visited the Sloans, I'd search for signs of insanity, misery or even regret in their superclean home, yet I never seemed to find any. From what I could tell, the Sloans were happy, maybe even happier than my parents, despite the fact that they were (whisper) childless.
My impressions may have been swayed by the fact that their candy dish was always full, but several studies now show that the Sloans could well have been more content than most of the traditional families around them. In Daniel Gilbert's 2006 book "Stumbling on Happiness," the Harvard professor of psychology looks at several studies and concludes that marital satisfaction decreases dramatically after the birth of the first child—and increases only when the last child has left home. He also ascertains that parents are happier grocery shopping and even sleeping than spending time with their kids. Other data cited by 2008's "Gross National Happiness" author, Arthur C. Brooks, finds that parents are about 7 percentage points less likely to report being happy than the childless.
The most recent comprehensive study on the emotional state of those with kids shows us that the term "bundle of joy" may not be the most accurate way to describe our offspring. "Parents experience lower levels of emotional well-being, less frequent positive emotions and more frequent negative emotions than their childless peers," says Florida State University's Robin Simon, a sociology professor who's conducted several recent parenting studies, the most thorough of which came out in 2005 and looked at data gathered from 13,000 Americans by the National Survey of Families and Households. "In fact, no group of parents—married, single, step or even empty nest—reported significantly greater emotional well-being than people who never had children. It's such a counterintuitive finding because we have these cultural beliefs that children are the key to happiness and a healthy life, and they're not."
Simon received plenty of hate mail in response to her research ("Obviously Professor Simon hates her kids," read one), which isn't surprising. Her findings shake the very foundation of what we've been raised to believe is true. In a recent NEWSWEEK Poll, 50 percent of Americans said that adding new children to the family tends to increase happiness levels. Only one in six (16 percent) said that adding new children had a negative effect on the parents' happiness. But which parent is willing to admit that the greatest gift life has to offer has in fact made his or her life less enjoyable?
Parents may openly lament their lack of sleep, hectic schedules and difficulty in dealing with their surly teens, but rarely will they cop to feeling depressed due to the everyday rigors of child rearing. "If you admit that kids and parenthood aren't making you happy, it's basically blasphemy," says Jen Singer, a stay-at-home mother of two from New Jersey who runs the popular parenting blog MammaSaid.net. "From baby-lotion commercials that make motherhood look happy and well rested, to commercials for Disney World where you're supposed to feel like a kid because you're there with your kids, we've made parenthood out to be one blissful moment after another, and it's disappointing when you find out it's not."
Is it possible that American parents have always been this disillusioned? Anecdotal evidence says no. In pre-industrial America, parents certainly loved their children, but their offspring also served a purpose—to work the farm, contribute to the household. Children were a necessity. Today, we have kids more for emotional reasons, but an increasingly complicated work and social environment has made finding satisfaction far more difficult. A key study by University of Wisconsin-Madison's Sara McLanahan and Julia Adams, conducted some 20 years ago, found that parenthood was perceived as significantly more stressful in the 1970s than in the 1950s; the researchers attribute part of that change to major shifts in employment patterns. The majority of American parents now work outside the home, have less support from extended family and face a deteriorating education and health-care system, so raising children has not only become more complicated—it has become more expensive. Today the U.S. Department of Agriculture estimates that it costs anywhere from $134,370 to $237,520 to raise a child from birth to the age of 17—and that's not counting school or college tuition. No wonder parents are feeling a little blue.
Societal ills aside, perhaps we also expect too much from the promise of parenting. The National Marriage Project's 2006 "State of Our Unions" report says that parents have significantly lower marital satisfaction than nonparents because they experienced more single and child-free years than previous generations. Twenty-five years ago, women married around the age of 20, and men at 23. Today both sexes are marrying four to five years later. This means the experience of raising kids is now competing with highs in a parent's past, like career wins ("I got a raise!") or a carefree social life ("God, this is a great martini!"). Shuttling cranky kids to school or dashing to work with spit-up on your favorite sweater doesn't skew as romantic.
For the childless, all this research must certainly feel redeeming. As for those of us with kids, well, the news isn't all bad. Parents still report feeling a greater sense of purpose and meaning in their lives than those who've never had kids. And there are other rewarding aspects of parenting that are impossible to quantify. For example, I never thought it possible to love someone as deeply as I love my son. As for the Sloans, it's hard to say whether they had a less meaningful existence than my parents, or if my parents were 7 percent less happy than the Sloans. Perhaps it just comes down to how you see the candy dish—half empty or half full. Or at least as a parent, that's what I'll keep telling myself.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/143792
I find myself endlessly fascinated by your career - Stark, in a fit of Nerd-Validation, November 3, 2011
- Darth Wong
- Sith Lord
- Posts: 70028
- Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
- Location: Toronto, Canada
- Contact:
This is old news. Honestly, anyone who thinks that you have children in order to make yourself happier is an idiot who should not be a parent. I thought we hashed this out with Valk quite a while ago.
It's like saying that idle useless rich people like Paris Hilton are happier than people who are actually useful to society. They probably are, but that's not an indictment of being useful to society. Obviously, someone who devotes all of his energy to self-gratification will achieve more of it.
It's like saying that idle useless rich people like Paris Hilton are happier than people who are actually useful to society. They probably are, but that's not an indictment of being useful to society. Obviously, someone who devotes all of his energy to self-gratification will achieve more of it.

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
- CaptainZoidberg
- Padawan Learner
- Posts: 497
- Joined: 2008-05-24 12:05pm
- Location: Worcester Polytechnic
- Contact:
- Coyote
- Rabid Monkey
- Posts: 12464
- Joined: 2002-08-23 01:20am
- Location: The glorious Sun-Barge! Isis, Isis, Ra,Ra,Ra!
- Contact:
Yeah, it's not about making you happy, and never really was supposed to be. I know a lot of parents who are tired, haggared, at wit's end, but would never want to give up the experience of having a kid.
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
- Alferd Packer
- Sith Marauder
- Posts: 3706
- Joined: 2002-07-19 09:22pm
- Location: Slumgullion Pass
- Contact:
We should also consider those parents who got married just because the woman got knocked up; odds are, those two people are gonna be less happy than the childless couple who got married because they loved one another. Generally speaking, you could say that if childless couples are the happiest, those who had children after they were married for some time are happier than those who endured a shotgun wedding, for want of a more couth term.
Also, maybe it's part of a deception that our biology plays on us. Perhaps the urge to reproduce could manifest itself as the perception that children will make us happy. It's more difficult to come with the ethical and intellectual merits of reproducing(or not reproducing) if your body and the body of your partner is constantly subtly needling you to reproduce.
Also, maybe it's part of a deception that our biology plays on us. Perhaps the urge to reproduce could manifest itself as the perception that children will make us happy. It's more difficult to come with the ethical and intellectual merits of reproducing(or not reproducing) if your body and the body of your partner is constantly subtly needling you to reproduce.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance--that principle is contempt prior to investigation." -Herbert Spencer
"Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain." - Schiller, Die Jungfrau von Orleans, III vi.
"Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain." - Schiller, Die Jungfrau von Orleans, III vi.
- Darth Wong
- Sith Lord
- Posts: 70028
- Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
- Location: Toronto, Canada
- Contact:
The feeling that drove Rebecca and I to have children was the sense that it was totally pointless to just go to work every day so we can buy things for ourselves, for the rest of our lives.

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
- Coyote
- Rabid Monkey
- Posts: 12464
- Joined: 2002-08-23 01:20am
- Location: The glorious Sun-Barge! Isis, Isis, Ra,Ra,Ra!
- Contact:
Another thing to consider-- if folks are getting married and having kids because of external pressure (family, religion), their unhappiness will also thend to throw the results. They are unhappy, but it wasn't having kids that did it, it was probably being backed into a corner by a perceived societal need.
There's also a lot of folks who just really dig having their kids, and unfortunately their voices get diluted with those who did so under pressure. My guess, anyway, nothing to back it up.
There's also a lot of folks who just really dig having their kids, and unfortunately their voices get diluted with those who did so under pressure. My guess, anyway, nothing to back it up.
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
- Coyote
- Rabid Monkey
- Posts: 12464
- Joined: 2002-08-23 01:20am
- Location: The glorious Sun-Barge! Isis, Isis, Ra,Ra,Ra!
- Contact:
I'm sure the fact that you just love to bone had no bearing on the descision what-so-ever.Darth Wong wrote:The feeling that drove Rebecca and I to have children was the sense that it was totally pointless to just go to work every day so we can buy things for ourselves, for the rest of our lives.

Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
- Broomstick
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 28846
- Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
- Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest
I always thought that if I had kids I could have a great life. And if I didn't have kids I could have a great life.
Happiness isn't just about having or not having a career, or kids, or whatever. Happiness is partly about making the best of what you have, of realizing that you can't do everything and making choices, of finding out which of your options will be best for you.
No doubt that for some people having children is a supremely fulfilling thing and one of the most important parts of their life. For others, they'd just as soon forget it. For most of us, it's one option among many.
As it happens, I didn't have kids. While I have an occasional regret it's a passing thing and I have had and still have a very good life. I look at my friends who are parents and even the happiest will admit that children are an enormous amount of work and a lifetime commitment. Particularly the first few years they can really wear a person down. Well, maybe I escaped that but I have concerns about loneliness during my retirement years (especially since the odds are I will outlive my husband by a couple decades), although on the upside when my parents needed help my lack of children made it relatively easy for me to go to their aid, which is not a bad thing. And while I go through this period of poverty I don't have to worry about supporting children as well as my Other Half and myself - hoo boy, that would be incredible stress!
In other words, children/not children is but one option among many. Children will not guarantee happiness. Lack of children does not mean unhappiness. Why is anyone shocked that some parents might (>gasp!<) regret having made such a commitment as children, or that not everyone finds heaven in changing diapers?
I remember when my sister died. As much pain as I experienced (and it was the most painful thing to happen to me in life so far) it paled beside what my parents went through. If I never know the highest joys of parenthood, neither will I experience the horrific pain of losing a child - and I truly believe there is no more horrific experience than that for a loving parent.
As a general rule, happy people will be happy having children. Unhappy people will be unhappy whether they have children or not. Quite a few of us who don't have children nonetheless having very happy and fulfilling lives. Your life is what you make of it.
Happiness isn't just about having or not having a career, or kids, or whatever. Happiness is partly about making the best of what you have, of realizing that you can't do everything and making choices, of finding out which of your options will be best for you.
No doubt that for some people having children is a supremely fulfilling thing and one of the most important parts of their life. For others, they'd just as soon forget it. For most of us, it's one option among many.
As it happens, I didn't have kids. While I have an occasional regret it's a passing thing and I have had and still have a very good life. I look at my friends who are parents and even the happiest will admit that children are an enormous amount of work and a lifetime commitment. Particularly the first few years they can really wear a person down. Well, maybe I escaped that but I have concerns about loneliness during my retirement years (especially since the odds are I will outlive my husband by a couple decades), although on the upside when my parents needed help my lack of children made it relatively easy for me to go to their aid, which is not a bad thing. And while I go through this period of poverty I don't have to worry about supporting children as well as my Other Half and myself - hoo boy, that would be incredible stress!
In other words, children/not children is but one option among many. Children will not guarantee happiness. Lack of children does not mean unhappiness. Why is anyone shocked that some parents might (>gasp!<) regret having made such a commitment as children, or that not everyone finds heaven in changing diapers?
I remember when my sister died. As much pain as I experienced (and it was the most painful thing to happen to me in life so far) it paled beside what my parents went through. If I never know the highest joys of parenthood, neither will I experience the horrific pain of losing a child - and I truly believe there is no more horrific experience than that for a loving parent.
As a general rule, happy people will be happy having children. Unhappy people will be unhappy whether they have children or not. Quite a few of us who don't have children nonetheless having very happy and fulfilling lives. Your life is what you make of it.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
I think there's a lot of truth to this. Children must add an incredible burden of responsibility to parents; it seems that the burden would exacerbate the highs and lows of life. When life is bad, the stress of caring for children makes it terrible. When life is good, the joy of seeing good results from the heavy duty of care imposed on you would be, I guess, overwhelming.Broomstick wrote:If I never know the highest joys of parenthood, neither will I experience the horrific pain of losing a child - and I truly believe there is no more horrific experience than that for a loving parent.
But that's guesswork. I'm not a father yet, so I can't say with any certainty.
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
F. Douglass
- Darth Wong
- Sith Lord
- Posts: 70028
- Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
- Location: Toronto, Canada
- Contact:
Broomie makes a good point about how some people are simply predisposed to be unhappy, regardless of their actual conditions; there have been quite a few studies showing that too.
In any case, I have doubts about the validity of the study's methodology, in which they simply ask people to rate their own happiness. A parent, especially a devoted one, is so committed to the happiness of his child that his own happiness can become something of an afterthought; it's not that he's necessarily unhappy, it's just that he doesn't devote a lot of brain cycles to contemplating his own state of happiness. When you are childless, you spend a lot more time thinking about your own desires.
As for the pain of losing a child, you could make the same argument for not marrying, since the pain of losing a spouse is great too (the suicide rate is extremely high among young male widowers). That's the risk you take when you love someone, and there is no greater love than that of a devoted parent for his child.
In any case, I have doubts about the validity of the study's methodology, in which they simply ask people to rate their own happiness. A parent, especially a devoted one, is so committed to the happiness of his child that his own happiness can become something of an afterthought; it's not that he's necessarily unhappy, it's just that he doesn't devote a lot of brain cycles to contemplating his own state of happiness. When you are childless, you spend a lot more time thinking about your own desires.
As for the pain of losing a child, you could make the same argument for not marrying, since the pain of losing a spouse is great too (the suicide rate is extremely high among young male widowers). That's the risk you take when you love someone, and there is no greater love than that of a devoted parent for his child.

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
- Broomstick
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 28846
- Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
- Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest
If you want the highs you must accept the lows. There is no love without risk of the pain that comes from loss. When you marry for love you think less of yourself and more of the Other, your happiness becomes tied to the Other's well-being. Likewise, when you have children you think less of yourself and more of Them, and your happiness becomes tied to Their well-being.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
- montypython
- Jedi Master
- Posts: 1130
- Joined: 2004-11-30 03:08am
A corollary to that is with memory tests on people regarding moods; people are more likely to recognize unhappy/distressed faces than happy ones. One can surmise that being unhappy and recognizing it is a greater motivator for activity, while contentment and happiness leaves people in a more status quo orientation.Darth Wong wrote:Broomie makes a good point about how some people are simply predisposed to be unhappy, regardless of their actual conditions; there have been quite a few studies showing that too.
- Broomstick
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 28846
- Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
- Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest
Which isn't always a bad thing - my college roommate is both childless and with out spouse and as a result she can devote herself entirely to her career which unquestionably benefits others. Given that she practices in out of the way rural areas where she may be the only surgeon within several hundred miles, such devotion to career without the responsibilities of family* may, in many ways, be an ideal fit of person to societal role.Darth Wong wrote: When you are childless, you spend a lot more time thinking about your own desires.
Then we have the people who won't let their children be themselves, or have children for selfish reasons, or as accessories. Well, there are screwballs in any human endeavor.
* She does, in fact, have family - she is financially supporting her elderly mother and making sure her rather fucked up brother at least has a roof over his head - but that does not require her time in the same way a spouse and children would.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
Broomstick wrote:Which isn't always a bad thing - my college roommate is both childless and with out spouse and as a result she can devote herself entirely to her career which unquestionably benefits others. Given that she practices in out of the way rural areas where she may be the only surgeon within several hundred miles, such devotion to career without the responsibilities of family* may, in many ways, be an ideal fit of person to societal role.Darth Wong wrote: When you are childless, you spend a lot more time thinking about your own desires.
Then we have the people who won't let their children be themselves, or have children for selfish reasons, or as accessories. Well, there are screwballs in any human endeavor.
* She does, in fact, have family - she is financially supporting her elderly mother and making sure her rather fucked up brother at least has a roof over his head - but that does not require her time in the same way a spouse and children would.
I thought it is possible for people to argue that, in general, not having a child may cause some problems like an ageing society?
By the way, is there reports about the happiness level of older couples that don't have any children?
Let's say the couple is of retirement age. Will they be happy as a ccouple and as an individual?