SD.net's World OOC/Discussion thread MK V

Raj Ahten · Post by **Raj Ahten** » 2008-06-30 01:18pm

PeZook wrote:Here we go, brand new ISCA bulletin full of happy corporate feelgoodspeak. And Raj, the FUN vote is going well so far A few more votes and you're in.

Yay! If I get in, Indhopal can cut back on Project Treadstone!

Post by **RogueIce** » 2008-06-30 03:47pm

Raj Ahten wrote:Speaking of people building things and deliveries, Rogue Ice I do believe I ordered a type 212 boat from you for Indhopal for this year, any idea when it will be delivered? I was hoping to order 1 a year for 3-4 years....

I told you you can take delivery whenever you want.

Raj Ahten · Post by **Raj Ahten** » 2008-06-30 03:54pm

RogueIce wrote:
Raj Ahten wrote:Speaking of people building things and deliveries, Rogue Ice I do believe I ordered a type 212 boat from you for Indhopal for this year, any idea when it will be delivered? I was hoping to order 1 a year for 3-4 years....
I told you you can take delivery whenever you want.

Whoops. I likely just missed it in the pages and pages of posts this thing produces.....

Post by **RogueIce** » 2008-06-30 03:58pm

Raj Ahten wrote: Whoops. I likely just missed it in the pages and pages of posts this thing produces.....

No worries. I've done that myself I few times.

Lonestar · Post by **Lonestar** » 2008-06-30 04:15pm

GIANT BRIDGE #1 IS DONE!

Post by **Beowulf** » 2008-06-30 05:17pm

Lonestar wrote:GIANT BRIDGE #1 IS DONE!

Yay! Fireworks time!

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2008-06-30 06:25pm

phongn wrote: You're already well within range of UAR nuclear assets, even SS-20s based in the UAR proper, IIRC.

SS-20 has about 5,500km range with a normal payload, 7,000km with a lightweight warhead. That’s enough to hit any point on the map from Saddamistani territory alone, though some launchers have been deployed in Shepnukistan for the last several years in ordered to complicate enemy defence planning (ABM radars don’t rotate). However most UAR missiles, cruise and ballistic, other then our wounderful nuclear ramjet, are smaller and shorter ranged.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2008-06-30 07:28pm

ok, WTF happened while I was away for a day?

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2008-06-30 09:38pm

The Yosemite Bear wrote:ok, WTF happened while I was away for a day?

Another nation joined the renegade list.

On a side note, aside from some ship production reserved for Constantinople Shipping, which looks set to order 10 WCTs this year, along with 10 4000 TEU vessels and 10 6000 TEU vessels. So essentially, I will be offering

1000 TEU - 28 million
2000 TEU - 35 million
4000 TEU - 56 million
6000 TEU - 71 million

I used to build WCTs on a license from Wilkonia too. Note that if anyone wants a nuclear reactor in any of these ships, you probably loose about 500 TEUs to the reactor.

As for cost.. give me time to think it over.

EDIT: Price listed. Rough guide. For addition of nuclear reactor, add 20 million.

Post by **RogueIce** » 2008-06-30 11:11pm

Well I'm going to set up my private shipping corporations now, which will eventually start leasing ships from my Merchant Marine so I'm not having to pay their full upkeep from government coffers.

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2008-06-30 11:16pm

RogueIce wrote:Well I'm going to set up my private shipping corporations now, which will eventually start leasing ships from my Merchant Marine so I'm not having to pay their full upkeep from government coffers.

Ah.. finally Constantinople Shipping has competition...

On a side note, the only reason why I haven't gone all the way and offered ships of the scale of 20K TEUs is because given the size of our world, there's no way these vessels will be having 100% full load for the most part. 8000TEU and 4000TEU and 6000TEU vessels are still pretty well used in the real world and I figure they will be the standard issue ship for cargo runs, and also they offer better economies (in general the bigger the ship, the cost per TEU is less).

Post by **RogueIce** » 2008-06-30 11:22pm

So what is TEU as compared to DWT anyway?

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2008-06-30 11:23pm

RogueIce wrote:So what is TEU as compared to DWT anyway?

From Wikipedia:

As noted above, the TEU is an inexact unit, and hence cannot be converted precisely into other units. The most common dimensions for a 20-foot container are 20 feet long x 8 feet wide x 8.5 feet high. This corresponds to a volume of 1,360 cubic feet (39 m³). However, both 9.5 feet (2.9 m) tall High cube and 4.25 feet (1.30 m) half height containers are also reckoned as 1 TEU.[2][3] This gives a volume range of 680 cubic feet (19 m³) to 1,520 cubic feet (43 m³) for one TEU.

While the TEU is not itself a measure of mass, some conclusions can be drawn about the maximum mass that a TEU can represent. The maximum gross mass for a 20-foot dry cargo container is 24,000 kilograms (53,000 lb).[4] Subtracting the tare mass of the container itself, the maximum amount of cargo per TEU is reduced to approximately 21,600 kilograms (48,000 lb).[4]

Similarly, the maximum gross mass for a 40-foot dry cargo container (including the 9.5 feet (2.9 m) high cube container) is 30,480 kilograms (67,200 lb).[4] After correcting for tare weight, this gives a cargo capacity of 26,500 kilograms (58,000 lb).[4]

Twenty-foot, "heavy tested" containers are available for heavy goods such as heavy machinery. These containers allow a maximum weight of 67,200 pounds (30,500 kg), an empty weight of 5,290 pounds (2,400 kg), and a net load of 61,910 pounds (28,080 kg).

Post by **RogueIce** » 2008-06-30 11:36pm

Gah, why the heck did you pick such an odd way to classify your ships?

So every TEU us about 21.6 tonnes. So your 6000 TEU is about 129600 tonnes. Which assuming that's just cargo capacity is 129,600 DWT, or 129.6 ths/DWT (to figure by the 'building points' system we use).

Damn, that's even bigger than the Nuclear Commerce Ship, assuming I didn't fuck up my math somewhere.

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2008-06-30 11:40pm

RogueIce wrote:Gah, why the heck did you pick such an odd way to classify your ships?

So every TEU us about 21.6 tonnes. So your 6000 TEU is about 129600 tonnes. Which assuming that's just cargo capacity is 129,600 DWT, or 129.6 ths/DWT (to figure by the 'building points' system we use).

Damn, that's even bigger than the Nuclear Commerce Ship, assuming I didn't fuck up my math somewhere.

Well, in general, ships are classified by both their capacity and their dimensions (be it Malaccamax, Suezmax or Panamax.)

And.. actually, if PeZook listed it right, it cost only 2 million to increase shipyard capacity by 1 thousand DTW. Which means i have simply over invested. I have increased my shipyard capacity by a whopping 3000 ths DWT a year.

The thing about nuclear ships, is that you loose lots of volume to the reactor.

Post by **RogueIce** » 2008-06-30 11:58pm

Hm. Well it's just easier to have one standard when I'm trying to figure out what kind of ships to buy, you know.

Well, given that they've just bought some damn huge cargo ships, those will probably be the centerpiece of their expanded fleet. I think I'll go with smaller buys mostly though.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2008-07-01 12:08am

You're already well within range of UAR nuclear assets, even SS-20s based in the UAR proper, IIRC.

Of course, but having them right in the middle of Central Sea complicates our defense once again, especially the very short time such a missile would need to reach the Red Technocracy, Pezookia, Shroomania and other FUN nations which are bordering the Central Sea.

P.S. Fellow FUN members, should we, as an act of good will, demonstrate to the world the FUN joint defense plan? I have had questions about that, perhaps it might be good time to do so.

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2008-07-01 01:54am

RogueIce wrote:Hm. Well it's just easier to have one standard when I'm trying to figure out what kind of ships to buy, you know.

Well, given that they've just bought some damn huge cargo ships, those will probably be the centerpiece of their expanded fleet. I think I'll go with smaller buys mostly though.

I think we need to get down to figure the cost of increasing the size of the shipyards. No doubt for the kingdoms and it's very easy to do so since they can just buy off the steel from people and expand vigorously, but we need to work out a proper scaling factor.

At the rate I went for the last few years, I easily have a shipyard capacity equivalent to the upper end of an Imperium or more.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2008-07-01 02:13am

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: I think we need to get down to figure the cost of increasing the size of the shipyards. No doubt for the kingdoms and it's very easy to do so since they can just buy off the steel from people and expand vigorously, but we need to work out a proper scaling factor.

At the rate I went for the last few years, I easily have a shipyard capacity equivalent to the upper end of an Imperium.

I probably underballed it - but that's understandable, since I never worked on such a project

We may scale this according to GDP or existing shipyard capacity, or just up the price considerably.

On ship capacity: according to this Globalsecurity site, one TEU typically translates to 12-14 DWT, which gives a 6000 TEU ship a DWT of 72-84 thousand DWT. This is really, really frickin' big. To be honest, only a few such ships would actually be able to run with full loads on Nova Terra, since even an Imperium doesn't have a very high GDP by Earth standards. Fortunately, we're not limited by the size of, say, the Suez or Panama canals, meaning we could theoretically build ships as large as 25 000 TEU. Those things would be bigger than the largest supertanker today

Then again, we are limited by draft, and a ship that huge would have a draft somewhere in the 25 meter area

I'll put both Byzantine and WCS ships into the ISCA product lineup so that people can review them.

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2008-07-01 02:26am

My ships in general are Malaccamax so they should suit the depth. The big issue is for shipyards and trading ports to be able to be deep enough to service large ships.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2008-07-01 02:29am

All right, I'm figuring out my budget for FY2012. And I will have around 300 million to spend on procurement of various stuff.

I figure I will buy some heavy hitters for my airmobile batallion, mechanizing a single company with heli-transportable BMDs

So I will need eight Mi-26, fifteen BMD-2 or 3 (depends what will fit inside the helicopter) plus two more helicopters and a four more BMDs for training.

So in total:

10x Mi-26 and 19x BMD2 or 3 IFVs. Price?

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2008-07-01 03:47am

Shady, you said you want the Emperor to pay a visit right? I'll fly over right now if you want.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2008-07-01 04:00am

PeZook wrote: I figure I will buy some heavy hitters for my airmobile batallion, mechanizing a single company with heli-transportable BMDs

Its actually quite within weight limits for an Mi-26 to airlift a BMP-2 or BMP-3; no need to use the specialist and absurdly lightly armored BMDs. I don’t know how the range difference would work out, but in general air mobile units are only going to go 60-100 miles from base to start with.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2008-07-01 04:07am

Sea Skimmer wrote: Its actually quite within weight limits for an Mi-26 to airlift a BMP-2 or BMP-3; no need to use the specialist and absurdly lightly armored BMDs. I don’t know how the range difference would work out, but in general air mobile units are only going to go 60-100 miles from base to start with.

Hmm...it would appear you're right, though that means doubling the amounts of helicopters I'll need (from what I heard, they can carry 2 BMDs but only one BMP)

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2008-07-01 04:12am

Sea Skimmer wrote:Its actually quite within weight limits for an Mi-26 to airlift a BMP-2 or BMP-3; no need to use the specialist and absurdly lightly armored BMDs. I don’t know how the range difference would work out, but in general air mobile units are only going to go 60-100 miles from base to start with.

Is it possible to uparmour the BMD-4? I was thinking of upgrading the armour for these things.