CNN: Tape shows woman dying on waiting room floor

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CNN: Tape shows woman dying on waiting room floor

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Surveillance video shows a woman lying on the hospital floor for almost an hour before anyone helped her.

NEW YORK (CNN) -- A 49-year-old woman collapsed and died on the floor of a waiting room at a Brooklyn psychiatric hospital and lay there for more than an hour as employees ignored her, according to the New York Civil Liberties Union, which on Tuesday released surveillance camera video of the incident.

Esmin Green was involuntarily admitted to the psychiatric emergency department of Kings County Hospital Center on June 18 for what the hospital describes as "agitation and psychosis."

Upon her admission, Green waited nearly 24 hours for treatment, said the civil liberties union, which was among the groups filing suit against the facility last year seeking improved conditions for patients.

The surveillance camera video shows the woman rolling off a waiting room chair, landing face-down on the floor and convulsing. Her collapse came at 5:32 a.m. June 19, the NYCLU said, and she stopped moving at 6:07 a.m. During that time, the organization said, workers at the hospital ignored her.

At 6:35 a.m., the tape shows a hospital employee approaching and nudging Green with her foot, the group said. Help was summoned three minutes later. Video Watch the surveillance video »

In addition, the organization said, hospital staff falsified Green's records to cover up the time she had lain there without assistance.

"Contrary to what was recorded from four different angles by the hospital's video cameras, the patient's medical records say that at 6 a.m., she got up and went to the bathroom, and at 6:20 a.m. she was 'sitting quietly in waiting room' -- more than 10 minutes since she last moved and 48 minutes after she fell to the floor."

The New York City Health and Hospitals Corporation, which oversees the hospital, released a statement Tuesday saying it was "shocked and distressed by this situation. It is clear that some of our employees failed to act based on our compassionate standards of care."
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After a preliminary investigation, the corporation said it suspended or terminated six employees, "including staff involved with the direct care of the patient as well as managers of security and clinical services," the statement said.

A Health and Hospitals Corporation spokeswoman said it was aware of the discrepancies in Green's record when it began the preliminary investigation on June 20. That information is now in the hands of various investigatory agencies, she said.

The corporation pledged to put "additional and significant" reforms in place in the wake of the incident.

The civil liberties group and the Mental Hygiene Legal Service filed suit against Kings County in May 2007 in federal court, alleging that conditions at the facility are filthy. Patients are often forced to sleep in plastic chairs or floors covered in urine, feces and blood while waiting for beds, the groups allege, and often go without basic hygiene such as showers, clean linens and clean clothes. The lawsuit claims that patients who complain face physical abuse and are injected with drugs to keep them docile.

The hospital, the suit alleges, lacks "the minimal requirements of basic cleanliness, space, privacy, and personal hygiene that are constitutionally guaranteed even to convicted felons."

The video sent the organizations back into court Tuesday, demanding immediate reform.

"What's happening in Kings County Hospital is an affront to human dignity," New York Civil Liberties Union Executive Director Donna Lieberman said in a written statement. "In 2008 in New York City, nobody should be subjected to this kind of treatment. It should not take the death of a patient to get the city to make changes that everyone knows are long overdue."

The Department of Justice recently initiated an investigation into conditions at the hospital, the organization said, prompting the facility to improve some of its problems. "But the culture of abuse and neglect remains and, as evidenced by the June death, the situation is too dire to wait for the Justice Department to act," the group said said.

Among the reforms agreed to in court Tuesday by the hospital are additional staffing; checking of patients every 15 minutes; and limiting to 25 the number of patients in the psychiatric emergency ward, officials said. In addition, the hospital said it is expanding crisis-prevention training for staff; expanding space to prevent overcrowding; and reducing patients' wait time for release, treatment or placement in an inpatient bed.

On Monday, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg said he was appalled by the surveillance video.

"Look, I saw the film like everybody else did and I was -- horrified is much too nice a word. Disgusted I think is a better word. I can't explain what happened there."

Green, a native of the island of Jamaica, lived alone in Brooklyn's Brownsville neighborhood. She had no close family in the United States, and her neighbor Beatrice Wallace described her as a quiet woman who had few visitors and spent most of her free time at church.

The medical examiner is withholding autopsy results pending further study and investigation into the precise cause of death.
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Post by Darmalus »

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Hmm.
I don't really see whats so bad about that story, AV. If none of them had any sort of license or Red Cross type certificate, you would just open yourself to lawsuits by trying to help. Besides, they called an ambulance, not much else you can have a bystander do.
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Darmalus wrote:
Admiral Valdemar wrote:Hmm.
I don't really see whats so bad about that story, AV. If none of them had any sort of license or Red Cross type certificate, you would just open yourself to lawsuits by trying to help. Besides, they called an ambulance, not much else you can have a bystander do.
You don't really see what's so bad about the complete lack of immediate first aid on the part of the bystanders? It doesn't take a license or Red Cross certification to put a shirt or something over the wound and apply pressure. And nobody even stepped in to try to redirect traffic around him until an ambulance arrived, IIRC.
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Post by Rogue 9 »

Darmalus wrote:
Admiral Valdemar wrote:Hmm.
I don't really see whats so bad about that story, AV. If none of them had any sort of license or Red Cross type certificate, you would just open yourself to lawsuits by trying to help.
Depends; many jurisdictions have Good Samaritan laws, which grant immunity to lawsuits for those attempting to help someone in medical distress.
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Post by Mr Bean »

I think the best part is where the worker comes up and pokes her with his/her shoes before summoning help. At least they had the professionalism to not poke her with a stick but with an approved medical poking boot.

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Post by Johonebesus »

If they lied and falsified documents regarding this incident, why trust them not to lie and falsify documents demonstrating their compliance with their voluntary reforms? The entire staff, including the management up to the corporate level, need to be replaced.

And this is of course yet another example of the failures of privatization. At least a government bureaucracy wouldn't have a financial incentive to cut back on quality staff in order to protect investors' profits.
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Post by Oskuro »

Regarding the hit and run.... Around here it's mandatory to stop and help in traffic-related accidents (at least for drivers), unless doing so would cause more harm (by overcrowding or similar). This applies even if you have no involvement on the accident.

The law does say that, if you're unsure of how to apply first aid techniques, you should limit yourself to calling an ambulance, but you must signal the accident for other drivers to see, and take steps to avoid further damage (redirecting traffic, removing obstacles, pulling those wounded from immediate danger, etc..).

Failure to comply can lead to penal charges, and you could end up in jail.


Just what popped into my mind after reading the article.
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Post by Shroom Man 777 »

It brings up a dilemma.

Um, my (nursing) teacher told me that once, there was this dying person who couldn't afford treatment - so he/she didn't get any treatment. They just hooked him/her on an IV and let him/her die in the waiting room.

What should nurses do in that situation, if superior staff officials instruct them to not do anything?
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Post by Napoleon the Clown »

Shroom Man 777 wrote:What should nurses do in that situation, if superior staff officials instruct them to not do anything?
Get it in writing and pay the media a visit is one tactic. Getting it in writing period would be good though. That way they can get rid of the people who are essentially committing murder.
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Post by Kamakazie Sith »

Rogue 9 wrote:
Darmalus wrote:
Admiral Valdemar wrote:Hmm.
I don't really see whats so bad about that story, AV. If none of them had any sort of license or Red Cross type certificate, you would just open yourself to lawsuits by trying to help.
Depends; many jurisdictions have Good Samaritan laws, which grant immunity to lawsuits for those attempting to help someone in medical distress.
Correct, but you can still be held liable if you don't have one and you perform something incorrectly. That being said, for the most part you're protected as long as you don't commit an unreasonable act.
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Post by Psychic_Sandwich »

What should nurses do in that situation, if superior staff officials instruct them to not do anything?
Get it in writing that Official Arsehole is telling them to let somebody die, and then help them anyway. Frankly, I'd rather loose my job than sit around and watch somebody die, and I can't believe that somebody that actually works in a hospital as a doctor or nurse would feel any different.
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Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Shroom Man 777 wrote:It brings up a dilemma.

Um, my (nursing) teacher told me that once, there was this dying person who couldn't afford treatment - so he/she didn't get any treatment. They just hooked him/her on an IV and let him/her die in the waiting room.

What should nurses do in that situation, if superior staff officials instruct them to not do anything?
Do it anyway. In the US at least they CANNOT refuse to treat someone who cannot afford it. At least not in emergency cases.

In this particular case everyone involved does not need to be fired. They need to be charged with Depraved Indifference 2nd Degree Murder, because that is exactly what they did. As hospital staff you dont get to sit and watch someone have a seizure for over half an hour without so much as looking at them.
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Post by Melchior »

Shroom Man 777 wrote: What should nurses do in that situation, if superior staff officials instruct them to not do anything?
The ethical thing is to obviously help them anyway. I don't know about nurses, but doctors at least here are obliged under oath to provide medical care to the needy no matter what.
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Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Melchior wrote:
Shroom Man 777 wrote: What should nurses do in that situation, if superior staff officials instruct them to not do anything?
The ethical thing is to obviously help them anyway. I don't know about nurses, but doctors at least here are obliged under oath to provide medical care to the needy no matter what.
Yep, they take the Hippocratic oath, every doctor does IIRC regardless of nationality. Not sure how legally binding that oath is elsewhere though.

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Post by Melchior »

Alyrium Denryle wrote: Yep, they take the Hippocratic oath, every doctor does IIRC regardless of nationality. Not sure how legally binding that oath is elsewhere though.

BTW: I congratulate your blasphemous 666 postcount.
The matter is actually rather complex: the original Hippocratic oath is heavily outdated (and geared to keeping the secrets and the prestige of the profession intact). New doctors take modern reinterpretations of the traditional oath; they tend to differ from country to country.
Anyway, I would find unbearable to practice in a for-profit hospital where I would have to treat patients while being directly constrained in therapeutical choices by their economic means. Fortunately I live in Europe.


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Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

Mental hospitals are modern day gulags, anyway; they have almost no restraints on how they treat their patients in comparison to other aspects of the medical profession, and frankly every single one should be closed down and replaced with entirely new ones, with new employees (who have gone through a much more rigorous screening and hiring process) that operate on a total different plan.
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Post by Buddha »

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:Mental hospitals are modern day gulags, anyway; they have almost no restraints on how they treat their patients in comparison to other aspects of the medical profession, and frankly every single one should be closed down and replaced with entirely new ones, with new employees (who have gone through a much more rigorous screening and hiring process) that operate on a total different plan.
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Post by anybody_mcc »

Darmalus wrote:
Admiral Valdemar wrote:Hmm.
I don't really see whats so bad about that story, AV. If none of them had any sort of license or Red Cross type certificate, you would just open yourself to lawsuits by trying to help. Besides, they called an ambulance, not much else you can have a bystander do.
Well over here you could probably even get sued for not helping. It would depend on the details.
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Post by Darmalus »

LordOskuro wrote:Regarding the hit and run.... Around here it's mandatory to stop and help in traffic-related accidents (at least for drivers), unless doing so would cause more harm (by overcrowding or similar). This applies even if you have no involvement on the accident.
anybody_mcc wrote:Well over here you could probably even get sued for not helping. It would depend on the details.
Interesting. Is this consistent through Europe? Is the "get in trouble for trying to help" a purely USA thing, like not using metric? I guess it's just been drilled into me over time that if you don't get involved, you'll be okay. I remember my Red Cross First Aid trainer saying that a Good Samaritan law MIGHT help you, but even if it does, you'll lose your shirt to legal fees anyway.

Legal and financial worries aside, unless I have a good set of disposable gloves, I'm not touching a bleeder.
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

Darmalus wrote: Interesting. Is this consistent through Europe? Is the "get in trouble for trying to help" a purely USA thing, like not using metric? I guess it's just been drilled into me over time that if you don't get involved, you'll be okay. I remember my Red Cross First Aid trainer saying that a Good Samaritan law MIGHT help you, but even if it does, you'll lose your shirt to legal fees anyway.
You realise to an outsider, this is a horribly depressing picture of American society, yes? I was actually sitting aghast as I saw that RTA video on BBC News. That a similar incident happened less than a month later in a damn hospital is sickening.
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Post by salm »

Darmalus wrote: Interesting. Is this consistent through Europe? Is the "get in trouble for trying to help" a purely USA thing, like not using metric? I guess it's just been drilled into me over time that if you don't get involved, you'll be okay. I remember my Red Cross First Aid trainer saying that a Good Samaritan law MIGHT help you, but even if it does, you'll lose your shirt to legal fees anyway.

Legal and financial worries aside, unless I have a good set of disposable gloves, I'm not touching a bleeder.
You can get up to a year in prison for not helping in a situation like this over here.
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Post by LaCroix »

Yupp, here too. Not helping in an emergency situation is a strainght ticket to jail. These samaritan laws are pretty consistent all over europe.

If you don't do something terribly stupid while helping, you won't get any trouble.

It's probably an unique american problem, like these "don't get near to any child, or you could be labeled a child molester" problems which where in the news frequently, or frivolous lawsuits. Must be due to your legal system.
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Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Admiral Valdemar wrote:
Darmalus wrote: Interesting. Is this consistent through Europe? Is the "get in trouble for trying to help" a purely USA thing, like not using metric? I guess it's just been drilled into me over time that if you don't get involved, you'll be okay. I remember my Red Cross First Aid trainer saying that a Good Samaritan law MIGHT help you, but even if it does, you'll lose your shirt to legal fees anyway.
You realise to an outsider, this is a horribly depressing picture of American society, yes? I was actually sitting aghast as I saw that RTA video on BBC News. That a similar incident happened less than a month later in a damn hospital is sickening.
It is fucking depressing and I live here. I have taken too many classes in medical ethics to not be utterly flaberghasted. I have a friend who is an EMT, and he was instructed during training not to help people, because a good samaritan law would not protect him, we do not have a looser pays rule, and he would not be covered under hospital insurance in such cases. It is fucking disgusting.

Maybe it was just that my professor was Canadian, and had an understanding of what a ethically run medical system was like... But god damn. Doctors and patients cannot actually sit down and discuss medical options for patients, they are hampered by a system which has the actual function of denying medical care whenever they possibly can, where profits dictate treatment rather than prognosis.

At this point, insurance company execs and injury lawyers all need to be rounded up and put into camps...
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Post by Oskuro »

Darmalus wrote:Legal and financial worries aside, unless I have a good set of disposable gloves, I'm not touching a bleeder.
Of course, the law can't force you to risk your life. As far as i know, even medical staff can decide not to perform certain treatments if it puts their own life in danger (say, entering in contact with a victim's blood, as mentioned).

So you're not expected to enter a burning school bus to pull children out, but you are expected to stop, call emergency services, and do whatever you can to prevent further harm.


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