effect of stunblast on Jedi/Sith?

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2008-07-02 08:24am

Ok I seem to remember, that stunblast from SW blasters seem to be some what ineffiencient when used on Jedi/Sith (as in said Force user either shrugs the blast off or the shot is only marginally effective (Force user is dazed but very pissed off)).

so am I making this up or are stunblast unrelible when used on strong Force users?

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2008-07-02 08:30am

Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter has a smuggler shoot him in the back with a stun blast near the end. Twice and by the time he's crossed the length of the corridor to get to maul, he's awake again.

So they work. momentarily.

Darth Hoth · Post by **Darth Hoth** » 2008-07-02 08:36am

Assuming that I recall correctly, Luke could resist Stokhli spray sticks, which included a sedative, although that is not the same thing, of course. However, from what I remember of Heir to the Empire, stun shots actually use chemicals, as opposed to being energy weapons. If so, Jedi could treat it as they do other poisons. Would that still be canon?

(It might, if this sounds very unfamiliar to others, also be a translation error; my edition has a few of those.)

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2008-07-02 09:19am

Luke thinks about techniques to resist them in HttE but doesn't use them because he didn't sense the shot coming due to Yslarimi. So if they sense it coming they can steel themselves and resist it, if not it works like anyone else.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2008-07-02 09:47am

Ender wrote:Luke thinks about techniques to resist them in HttE but doesn't use them because he didn't sense the shot coming due to Yslarimi. So if they sense it coming they can steel themselves and resist it, if not it works like anyone else.

Maul actually got shot (twice)n and didn't expect it coming because he couldn't sense Lorn Pavan, in the force due to Pavan carrying about a piece of a force resistant creature called a taozin.

So at least in Maul's case, (who was likely better trained than Luke at least martially) no fore warning as necessary.

Swindle1984 · Post by **Swindle1984** » 2008-07-02 12:19pm

In Dark Saber, I think it was, Daala fires a blaster at Calysta repeatedly and all her shots get deflected by her lightsaber. Daala then switches to stun and the spreading ring of the stunblast becomes unblockable, stunning her. Both women escaped before the ship they were on crashed, so again, the stun didn't last very long.

Desdinova · Post by **Desdinova** » 2008-07-02 12:47pm

Neither did the shot that hit Leia, I should point out.

I've heard it postulated around here that Jedi may have some sort of inherent physical resistance to energy weapons; the reasoning came from the way the clones gun down Ki-Adi-Mundi and Aayla Secura. We've definitely seen Vader display an active use of this type of power, but the theory held that this trait might be passive and always present. If so, I'd imagine a lower-energy stun wouldn't have any effect on Jedi at all. If anyone has evidence to support (or refute) this theory, it'd be rather helpful.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2008-07-02 04:08pm

What about an anti-midichlorian spray?

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2008-07-02 07:49pm

Kurgan wrote:What about an anti-midichlorian spray?

Pretty sure you made that up

PREDATOR490 · Post by **PREDATOR490** » 2008-07-02 08:58pm

One NJO book had a Jedi deflect a stun blast like a normal blaster bolt by spinning the blade in a circle to counter the expanding ring blast... hence the stun blast is not unblockable but wether this technique may have been a new innovation or dependant on circumstances is unknown to me.

Regardless, with the Force being an energy field that surrounds and empowers the users physically and mentally, a possibly theory might be a natural resistance against energy or the energy is absorbed by the Force in some manner like Corran Horn's trademark ability.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2008-07-02 09:46pm

we know that Sith (and quite likely Jedi too) put up "shield" against force "powers" when in "combat mode", so it's possible that they put a similar (though alot less powerfull) shield against energy weapons.

this would also explain why Leia in AHN (untrained at that point) and Callista (was having problems in using the force) could get stunned, though Leia is both rather sharp for some one who knocked out when brought to Vader (granted we don't know the time frame (though knowing Vader it can't be that long)).

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2008-07-02 10:06pm

Crazedwraith wrote:
Ender wrote:Luke thinks about techniques to resist them in HttE but doesn't use them because he didn't sense the shot coming due to Yslarimi. So if they sense it coming they can steel themselves and resist it, if not it works like anyone else.
Maul actually got shot (twice)n and didn't expect it coming because he couldn't sense Lorn Pavan, in the force due to Pavan carrying about a piece of a force resistant creature called a taozin.

So at least in Maul's case, (who was likely better trained than Luke at least martially) no fore warning as necessary.

It may not be training so much as a different CIS - while Zabrak are human derivatives they aren't baseline humans so they may be less effective.

FOG3 · Post by **FOG3** » 2008-07-02 11:29pm

Lord Revan wrote:we know that Sith (and quite likely Jedi too) put up "shield" against force "powers" when in "combat mode", so it's possible that they put a similar (though alot less powerfull) shield against energy weapons.

this would also explain why Leia in AHN (untrained at that point) and Callista (was having problems in using the force) could get stunned, though Leia is both rather sharp for some one who knocked out when brought to Vader (granted we don't know the time frame (though knowing Vader it can't be that long)).

It also jives with Yodas lesson in The Empire Strikes Back Chapter X involving Seekers with cranked up stun blasts. He emphasizes if the Force was flowing through Luke it wouldn't matter, after Luke fusses at him about the strength of the stun blasts.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2008-07-03 01:46am

Ender wrote:It may not be training so much as a different CIS - while Zabrak are human derivatives they aren't baseline humans so they may be less effective.

Not to derail, but how would a Zabrak be a human derivative? I would think that the horns would indicate evolving from a completely different type of animal than a monkey/chimp/ape?

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2008-07-03 01:49am

havokeff wrote:
Ender wrote:It may not be training so much as a different CIS - while Zabrak are human derivatives they aren't baseline humans so they may be less effective.
Not to derail, but how would a Zabrak be a human derivative? I would think that the horns would indicate evolving from a completely different type of animal than a monkey/chimp/ape?

Genetic engineering.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2008-07-03 10:05am

havokeff wrote:
Ender wrote:It may not be training so much as a different CIS - while Zabrak are human derivatives they aren't baseline humans so they may be less effective.
Not to derail, but how would a Zabrak be a human derivative? I would think that the horns would indicate evolving from a completely different type of animal than a monkey/chimp/ape?

Because the horns are of course the majority of the visible phylogenetic factors. Yeah that human-like skin, eyebrows, nails, humanoform teeth, yeah that counts for much less than horns.

You realize all horns are are pointy projections of bone covered with dense keratin (nail and hair protein), right?

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2008-07-03 12:21pm

I like that... "Humanoform Teeth" new from Polydent... the Dentures that chomp just like your old choppers!"

Are there any shields that can block the Force?

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2008-07-03 02:11pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
havokeff wrote:
Ender wrote:It may not be training so much as a different CIS - while Zabrak are human derivatives they aren't baseline humans so they may be less effective.
Not to derail, but how would a Zabrak be a human derivative? I would think that the horns would indicate evolving from a completely different type of animal than a monkey/chimp/ape?
Because the horns are of course the majority of the visible phylogenetic factors. Yeah that human-like skin, eyebrows, nails, humanoform teeth, yeah that counts for much less than horns. You realize all horns are are pointy projections of bone covered with dense keratin (nail and hair protein), right?

Yeah because no animal besides a human has skin, teeth, hair, nails etc.. However last time I checked horns were not in the evolutionary process of a human. Now if Ender meant human as in just the basic human form then thats fine, but the way he phrased it I was thinking more like the Chiss that were once humans that evolved to fit and survive their environment, where the only change was skin pigmentation, eye color and black hair. Not horns and a second heart.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2008-07-03 02:12pm

Imperial Overlord wrote:
havokeff wrote:
Ender wrote:It may not be training so much as a different CIS - while Zabrak are human derivatives they aren't baseline humans so they may be less effective.
Not to derail, but how would a Zabrak be a human derivative? I would think that the horns would indicate evolving from a completely different type of animal than a monkey/chimp/ape?
Genetic engineering.

Sounds good to me.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2008-07-04 11:50am

havokeff wrote:Yeah because no animal besides a human has skin, teeth, hair, nails etc.

Ones that look indistinguishable from a human? Yeah. The fact is, regardless of your bullshitting, all their phenotypic traits are identical to humans but the horns, so you automatically assume its easy for a horned animal to evolve into a very, very exact humanoid and not lose the horns as being evolutionarily irrelevent - as opposed to human subspecies evolving or engineering them for display rituals or something else?

Darth Hoth · Post by **Darth Hoth** » 2008-07-04 12:37pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
havokeff wrote:Yeah because no animal besides a human has skin, teeth, hair, nails etc.
Ones that look indistinguishable from a human? Yeah. The fact is, regardless of your bullshitting, all their phenotypic traits are identical to humans but the horns, so you automatically assume its easy for a horned animal to evolve into a very, very exact humanoid and not lose the horns as being evolutionarily irrelevent - as opposed to human subspecies evolving or engineering them for display rituals or something else?

I could buy engineering, but evolution by natural selection? How would sprouting (incrementally larger, after the early generations) horns and lack of hair impart any greater survival value? Such a mutation would rather lower it by distancing the mutated individual from the community; assuming reasonably civilised baseline humans with our tendency towards fearing the strange, the divergent strain would probably be ostracised.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2008-07-04 12:43pm

Darth Hoth wrote:I could buy engineering, but evolution by natural selection? How would sprouting (incrementally larger, after the early generations) horns and lack of hair impart any greater survival value? Such a mutation would rather lower it by distancing the mutated individual from the community; assuming reasonably civilised baseline humans with our tendency towards fearing the strange, the divergent strain would probably be ostracised.

What if the population was an isolate in the form of a small colonizing party or a group of genetic exiles (compare the origin of the human colonies of StarCraft). Not to mention we're talking about absurdly large numbers of individuals spread over absurdly large areas of space over absurdly large quantities of time in the pre-FTL era; strange things can happen in isolated instances when the die is rolled enough. Anyway, you agree with the central point which is descent from horned animals is much less likely than horn-formation from humanoids.

Darth Hoth · Post by **Darth Hoth** » 2008-07-04 12:50pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:What if the population was an isolate in the form of a small colonizing party or a group of genetic exiles (compare the origin of the human colonies of StarCraft). Not to mention we're talking about absurdly large numbers of individuals spread over absurdly large areas of space over absurdly large quantities of time in the pre-FTL era; strange things can happen in isolated instances when the die is rolled enough.

In an isolated population, perhaps. The model of a mutant community driven away (perhaps off-planet) and evolving divergently could probably be a likely explanation here, if one leaves out deliberate engineering.

Anyway, you agree with the central point which is descent from horned animals is much less likely than horn-formation from humanoids.

Certainly; from even my limited knowledge of genetics and evolutionary biology, I would never argue otherwise.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2008-07-04 04:59pm

Darth Hoth wrote:I could buy engineering, but evolution by natural selection? How would sprouting (incrementally larger, after the early generations) horns and lack of hair impart any greater survival value?

Creatures can naturally evolve to just look attractive. Witness male Mallards and Peacocks. For all we know, the Zabrak's ancestors consistantly decided thousands of years ago, that horns were just really really sexy.

Darth Hoth · Post by **Darth Hoth** » 2008-07-04 05:15pm

NecronLord wrote:Creatures can naturally evolve to just look attractive. Witness male Mallards and Peacocks. For all we know, the Zabrak's ancestors consistantly decided thousands of years ago, that horns were just really really sexy.

I know that there are examples of this in nature, but I question whether this would be applicable to a human society, made up of thinking and feeling creatures. Joe Average's gut instinct when confronted with something strange is to fear it or be repulsed by it, and I cannot see why horned mutants would not be viewed thusly. Granted, sociology allows for much, so I suppose it would not be impossible for a society to adopt such beauty ideals; it merely struck me as very unlikely.