Mandatory In Car Breathalyzers

[Molyneux]

Is it just me, or does this seem like something of a hygiene issue for, say, a shared or rental car?

[Aaron]

Is it just me, or does this seem like something of a hygiene issue for, say, a shared or rental car?

Clean the tube with alcohol ala the first aid dummies or just have disposable tubes.

[General Zod]

Then he'll claim it's not properly calibrated.

Oh, I agree with you - breathalyzers are a pretty good tool - but get some lawyers involved and it will be a mess.

This is where the short-rope comes in. Make sure there's enough leeway that they can send someone out to inspect it and confirm whether or not it's calibrated improperly, and have too many such claims land fines and/or jail. You can only cry wolf so much.

I have a problem with putting these on ALL vehicles due to expense and the fact it's one more thing to break. It also implies everyone is guilty and must prove their innocence before driving, which grates on my nerves. My biggest objection, though, is that they can be circumvented with just a little ingenuity or simple intimidation of a sober second party.

One of the reasons I'm in favor of having it installed only in DUI offenders vehicles, and making steep penalties for tampering or conviction while it's installed. They can only get someone to blow for them so much before they actually get pulled over for a DUI again.

[Solauren]

Then he'll claim it's not properly calibrated.

Make the fine / punishment for driving with an improperly calibrated ignition device higher then the actual crime.

[General Zod]

Then he'll claim it's not properly calibrated.

Make the fine / punishment for driving with an improperly calibrated ignition device higher then the actual crime.

I don't see any need for that, since the onus of the calibration is on the people who install it and not the person blowing into it. (The DUIer should never be responsible for maintaining the breathalyzer himself). There shouldn't be any need to bring it up at all unless they repeatedly claim it's calibrated improperly.

[Solauren]

Oh, you don't nail them the first time.

You say 'are you sure you want to claim that? after all, the process to prove it, and the fine, are way way more then for drunk driving.'

In other words, it's to call their bluff.

And if it turns out, the first time, that the device is off, you find out where they got it installed or serviced last, and make a note of it.

The second time they claim it, you nail them for it.

[General Zod]

Oh, you don't nail them the first time.

You say 'are you sure you want to claim that? after all, the process to prove it, and the fine, are way way more then for drunk driving.'

In other words, it's to call their bluff.

And if it turns out, the first time, that the device is off, you find out where they got it installed or serviced last, and make a note of it.

The second time they claim it, you nail them for it.

I believe I covered that already. Give them only so many chances to prove it was improperly calibrated before you fine them for crying wolf.

[LadyTevar]

Nitram doesn't drink, period. Why should he have to buy/pay for a Breathilyzer in our car?

If you are a convicted drunk driver, put a mark on their record so that any car they purchase from that point on MUST have a breathilyzer installed. Investigate any claim of 'false positive' exhaustively, and if they're lying add another couple years onto their sentence.



But, what do you do when they've lost their liscense and are driving anyway?

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Here's what Mr. Drunk would do:

1) Have the usual six-pack for breakfast.
2) Find 8 year old offspring
3) Say "Hey, kiddo - wanna help dad start the car?"
4) Take kid out to car
5) Instruct child to blow into appropriate orifice
6) Start car
7) Drive drunk

You gonna slam the 8 year old in jail for "felony reckless endangerment"? The kid probably has no idead what he did wrong.

Seriously, Marina, you come from an authoritative background - if your father had ordered you to do something like that when you were 7 or 8 would you have obeyed? Or refused and risked a severe beating?

If you dupe your child into committing a felony, you get an extra charge of felony entrapment AND the government takes your kid away. I think that should be obvious.

And for the RECORD, by the age of eight I was already so far into self-hating masochism that I'd regularly bait my parents into beating me more because I was convinced I deserved it. Fuck you. And thank you for leaving me in tears.

[Broomstick]

I'm sorry I touched a nerve, there, it certainly was not my intention to dig up old pain. I see my attempt at illustrating how an adult can easily bully a child into improper acts was painful and I certainly did not mean for that to happen. Please accept my sincere apology for causing you unnecessary suffering.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I'm sorry I touched a nerve, there, it certainly was not my intention to dig up old pain. I see my attempt at illustrating how an adult can easily bully a child into improper acts was painful and I certainly did not mean for that to happen. Please accept my sincere apology for causing you unnecessary suffering.

No apology is necessary. It is my place to apologize for overreacting, and I tender that apology to you now. I shouldn't be behaving in such a thin-skinned way; the past, in the final reflection, is just the past, already gone and not to be seen again. So please forgive for my overreaction and general snappishness.

I'll concede the point to you, as well, without reservation.

[Broomstick]

No need to apologize for being human - we're both a little stressed out these days even if our reasons for being so are quite different.

[CaptainZoidberg]

I hope I'm not missing anything obvious, but is there any reason why someone couldn't just use a tire/basketball pump or even a strong fan to put clean air into the breathalyzer? I mean, that sounds a lot easier than getting your kid or friend to start the car (both of which can be witnesses, I might add).

[General Zod]

I hope I'm not missing anything obvious, but is there any reason why someone couldn't just use a tire/basketball pump or even a strong fan to put clean air into the breathalyzer? I mean, that sounds a lot easier than getting your kid or friend to start the car (both of which can be witnesses, I might add).

Most breathalyzers require you to blow into them for a certain length of time in order to work. Which I would assume means that a certain amount of pressure is required, making it so that artificial means wouldn't be so effective if not impossible to use. (I'm not aware of the exact mechanics, so if anyone has anything more accurate feel free).

[Darth Tanner]

So how much do the devices actually cost? I'd imagine the cost of the device and the cost of installation, if its even possible on all cars that the cost will be higher than quite a few lower income cars actual worth.

And how are they going to remain calibrated when they are only going to be serviced every MOT?

I found this googling and apparently the process of having convicted drink drivers use them has already been tried.

linky

In a test of 225 such devices installed in a trial programme, only one driver re-offended; whereas American statistics show that on average 60 out of 225 drivers drive drunk again.

Interlocks cost about $2 a day and are paid for by offenders as part of their sentences.

Seems like it was successful, I don't see forcing every single car have one as being practical however.

[Broomstick]

I hope I'm not missing anything obvious, but is there any reason why someone couldn't just use a tire/basketball pump or even a strong fan to put clean air into the breathalyzer? I mean, that sounds a lot easier than getting your kid or friend to start the car (both of which can be witnesses, I might add).

Most breathalyzers require you to blow into them for a certain length of time in order to work. Which I would assume means that a certain amount of pressure is required, making it so that artificial means wouldn't be so effective if not impossible to use. (I'm not aware of the exact mechanics, so if anyone has anything more accurate feel free).

If it require more pressure than what could be delivered by, say, a bicycle tire pump or even a handpump - perhaps charging a cylinder then letting it decompress into the tube - then a lot of asthmatics aren't going to be able to operate such devices, along with COPD suffers, people with emphysema, etc. even if they're cold sober.

[General Zod]

If it require more pressure than what could be delivered by, say, a bicycle tire pump or even a handpump - perhaps charging a cylinder then letting it decompress into the tube - then a lot of asthmatics aren't going to be able to operate such devices, along with COPD suffers, people with emphysema, etc. even if they're cold sober.

The few times I've had to take them it wasn't more than a few seconds of blowing, so I can't imagine anyone very many people would have difficulties. Unless they're hooked up to nose tubes just so they can breathe and can barely walk without being exhausted or something.

[Sea Skimmer]

Those systems cost a thousand fucking dollars, on part with the estimated per car cost of improvements required to improve fuel economy from 25mph to 35mph, and don’t work if they aren’t regularly recalibrated which means regular servicing. They also can be spoofed pretty easy. So if you want to place them in every car on the road in say just America, that’s a mere 140 billion dollars for a ‘improvement’ which adds service stops, a bunch of parts to break and does fucking nothing to actually protect you in an accident.

How about spending the thousand bucks on a stronger unibody and side curtain airbags? Or for even less money we could just require full crash helmets for everyone who rides in the vehicle.

[Solauren]

Do you have a source for the cost of a in car breathalyzer unit?

[Darth Wong]

Nitram doesn't drink, period. Why should he have to buy/pay for a Breathilyzer in our car?

For the same reason that I have to pay for an expensive "supplemental restraint" airbag system even though I wear a seatbelt 100% of the time when I drive.

If you are a convicted drunk driver, put a mark on their record so that any car they purchase from that point on MUST have a breathilyzer installed. Investigate any claim of 'false positive' exhaustively, and if they're lying add another couple years onto their sentence.

But, what do you do when they've lost their liscense and are driving anyway?

Frankly, I think a convicted drunk driver should get jail time even before he kills someone, rather than waiting until after he leaves corpses on the road. That's one way to make sure he won't drive drunk.

[Robert Treder]

I think it's a good idea, I also think you should have to swipe your DL to start the car to limit unlicensed drivers.

But I agree that the drunk would just get a friend to do it. And if that's a felony to the friend ... how would the cops know who blew in it? Not like you'd be able to do a dna test on the tube; hopefully the blower uses one of those things like you put over a hooka tip otherwise that would be gross.

[Darth Wong]

I think it's a good idea, I also think you should have to swipe your DL to start the car to limit unlicensed drivers.

But I agree that the drunk would just get a friend to do it. And if that's a felony to the friend ... how would the cops know who blew in it? Not like you'd be able to do a dna test on the tube; hopefully the blower uses one of those things like you put over a hooka tip otherwise that would be gross.

If the drunk kills someone, the friend should be charged as an accessory to murder. That's quite a disincentive for the friend.

[Robert Treder]

You'd think that, wouldn't you. You obviously haven't spent much time around drunks. The drunk driver and his friends already believe they won't kill anybody, that's why they're driving drunk. The friend would blow for the drunk thinking it's no big whoop, nobody will get caught. It's the same thing with smoking; it's dangerous, but people do it anyways just by pretending that it's not dangerous.

Now, I expect that most of the cases of fraudulent blowing (:lol:) would occur when the drunk isn't that drunk, which would explain why the sober or near-sober friend would blow for them. But, as we all know, and just like the billboards say, "buzzed driving IS drunk driving."

[Beowulf]

Nitram doesn't drink, period. Why should he have to buy/pay for a Breathilyzer in our car?

For the same reason that I have to pay for an expensive "supplemental restraint" airbag system even though I wear a seatbelt 100% of the time when I drive.

Uh, Mike? Airbags can be lethal if you don't have your seatbelt on. They're not to protect you if you don't, but rather to enhance your protection if you do.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

A separate argument to consider: It would be like an additional tax on vehicle ownership, which is a good thing, as it would discourage people from buying cars in the first place.