Doctor Who S30E12 "The Stolen Earth" (Spoilers)

[Chardok]

I'm not going to respond to the fangirls who thought this episode was good, despite Stark's prodding. HOWEVER.


I will make a prediction:

Did anyone notice how, when harriet showed up on the TV's, there was a beeping pattern - the same pattern from "The Sound Of Drums"? I predict that the "key" that Martha has will release the Toclafane, and they will save humanity RAR!

That would be the most ham fisted out of left fiield thing ever if they did that

Well, SoD and LotTL was RTD - as is this arc so, I would not put it past him.

[Drooling Iguana]

The Toclafane were also originally thought up to be imitation Daleks when it looked like the Nation estate wouldn't let them use the real deal in the new show:

From the page on the Ninth Doctor episiode Dalek on A Brief History of Time Travel:

With little alternative and time running out, Davies offered Shearman a new monster he had been devising -- a spheroid creature akin to a sadistic child which was actually a mutated version of humanity from the end of time -- to replace the Daleks.

[Stark]

Just because he was living in a space bread-basket doesn't mean he was just a head. I figured the top half of his chest was just covered by all those leads.

It was dressed to cover any hint of shoulders - I actually think it might have been erroneous continuity, since people seemed to think Davros was a head in Resurrection (I don't know, I wouldn't watch the filthy episode). I was rather hoping you'd say something like 'zomg clonez' so we could laugh at the absurdity of the Daleks actually using DAVROS'S CHEST as material, instead of just scraping his dandruff and cloning some up. Ah well.

[Drooling Iguana]

Actually it was Revelation that had the Davros-head, but it was just a decoy. The real Davros was still in his chair, except that he could fly and shoot lightning from his hand.

[Stark]

Actually it was Revelation that had the Davros-head, but it was just a decoy. The real Davros was still in his chair, except that he could fly and shoot lightning from his hand.

Yeah, that's what I mean; people remember the head, but don't remember it wasn't really Davros at all. Anyway, the whole 'using torso zomg' thing is still fucking dumb.

[Crazedwraith]

I was rather hoping you'd say something like 'zomg clonez' so we could laugh at the absurdity of the Daleks actually using DAVROS'S CHEST as material, instead of just scraping his dandruff and cloning some up. Ah well.

A dalek made of dandruff? That'd never work! The first time they took a shower wuth medicated shampoo they'd dissappear!

[Manus Celer Dei]

I was rather hoping you'd say something like 'zomg clonez' so we could laugh at the absurdity of the Daleks actually using DAVROS'S CHEST as material, instead of just scraping his dandruff and cloning some up. Ah well.

A dalek made of dandruff? That'd never work! The first time they took a shower wuth medicated shampoo they'd dissappear!

I can't imagine Daleks wash very often, though. They're awfully slimey.

[Stark]

And shit, Davros needs to exfoliate BAD.

[Rye]

I just saw an advert for the next one, it sounds like the most blatant case of DBZ one-upmanship ever. Davros was basically saying he is going to unmake reality itself. After all the invasions and millions of lives in the balance to the maximum possible amount of lives in the balance. I'm hoping the next one is more character-based with the "epic" feeling to it coming from the personalities involved and actual tension, rather than silly superweapons or invasions.

[Soontir C'boath]

I might get this just for the cover. Of course, there's a free Target DW book that comes with it.

[Gandalf]

I just saw an advert for the next one, it sounds like the most blatant case of DBZ one-upmanship ever. Davros was basically saying he is going to unmake reality itself. After all the invasions and millions of lives in the balance to the maximum possible amount of lives in the balance. I'm hoping the next one is more character-based with the "epic" feeling to it coming from the personalities involved and actual tension, rather than silly superweapons or invasions.

That shit me too. I hope that it's revealed that Davros went crazy batshit insane at some point, and this is why he wants to exterminate reality.

Why couldn't the cliffhanger be something small, like Rose dying in her alternate dimension? The Doctor still cares for her, so it might have worked.

[NecronLord]

That shit me too. I hope that it's revealed that Davros went crazy batshit insane at some point, and this is why he wants to exterminate reality.

Nah. Right in Genesis he said that if he had the power to exterminate all life, he would.

[Gandalf]

That shit me too. I hope that it's revealed that Davros went crazy batshit insane at some point, and this is why he wants to exterminate reality.

Nah. Right in Genesis he said that if he had the power to exterminate all life, he would.

Fair enough.

I like that the average Dalek would be the voice of reason here.

[andrewgpaul]

I thought Davros was wittering on about converting everyone/thing to Daleks; 'unmaking the universe' to turn it all into a a vast number of Daleks, replicator-style.

[Stark]

Nah. Right in Genesis he said that if he had the power to exterminate all life, he would.

In an abstract discussion about megalomania. It's still a fucking retarded plotline concocted exclusively to one-up all the other finales.

[NecronLord]

He was still always a bloody fruit loop best left in the creation story.

[Imperial Overlord]

He was still always a bloody fruit loop best left in the creation story.

And he had such a perfect death scene too. Begging the ruthless monsters he created to have pity and finally realizing what he had unleashed upon the universe.

[Rye]

I was hoping they wouldn't bring Davros back for the new series, not because I think the character's been crap previously, (I actually can't remember the old eps with him in) but because it makes no sense to have him around if you risked everything to destroy them all in the Time War. Surely, if you're going to destroy the Daleks across all time (or wikiedit them out of existence or however such a war is meant to be done), then the number one fucking target is Davros. He's the linchpin of their whole existence. If you're a timelord, you build 500 chrono-legionnaires and send them all in on that target, surely?

I'm starting to think the Time War was just the Doctor formatting Gallifrey and letting the daleks destroy themselves instead of combining their forces against the TL and everything else in the universe, hence why they keep cropping up and never stay dead.

[Soontir C'boath]

At this point, I don't even care if they bring the Timelords back. With bringing the Daleks back over and over again, the Time War has become a piece of shit and a big giant damn reset button should be pressed for it.

[Stark]

I'm starting to think the Time War was just the Doctor formatting Gallifrey and letting the daleks destroy themselves instead of combining their forces against the TL and everything else in the universe, hence why they keep cropping up and never stay dead.

RTD never had any real idea what it was, but he was smart enough to leave the references vague, and even 'work around' it with the voidship etc in series 2. The S4 finale is just a great big 'OH YEAH AND THEN CAAN EDITED THE TIME WAR AND DAVROS SURVIVED BUT NOBODY NOTICED UNTIL NOW LOL', which pretty much invalidates the whole thing AND fucks with the season's attempt to establish 'can't change own timeline' thing.

It's called 'creative bankruptcy'. Brining the Daleks back over and over was always weak (especially when the story quality declined), but doing so in such a baldfaced way just shows that he doesn't care how retarded the setup is, he's going to get his Davros return dammit. When you remember that 'bring back Davros' is the #1 priority for him in this finale, you can see that all the other lameness and failure stems from his clumsy attempt to do just that. Turns out all his flaws as a writer come out because he wants a better 'legacy', and he even fucks up his own previous work to do so.

[Rye]

I'm starting to think the Time War was just the Doctor formatting Gallifrey and letting the daleks destroy themselves instead of combining their forces against the TL and everything else in the universe, hence why they keep cropping up and never stay dead.

RTD never had any real idea what it was, but he was smart enough to leave the references vague, and even 'work around' it with the voidship etc in series 2. The S4 finale is just a great big 'OH YEAH AND THEN CAAN EDITED THE TIME WAR AND DAVROS SURVIVED BUT NOBODY NOTICED UNTIL NOW LOL', which pretty much invalidates the whole thing AND fucks with the season's attempt to establish 'can't change own timeline' thing.

It's called 'creative bankruptcy'. Brining the Daleks back over and over was always weak (especially when the story quality declined), but doing so in such a baldfaced way just shows that he doesn't care how retarded the setup is, he's going to get his Davros return dammit. When you remember that 'bring back Davros' is the #1 priority for him in this finale, you can see that all the other lameness and failure stems from his clumsy attempt to do just that. Turns out all his flaws as a writer come out because he wants a better 'legacy', and he even fucks up his own previous work to do so.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I grasped all that as soon as I heard about Davros coming back (which was before the season started), I'm just trying to work out what RTD's concept of his own creation is like now. I could fully accept he'd leave the timewar alone because he knew he couldn't do it justice or because it would be so "beyond us" we couldn't grasp the magnitude or whatever. But as soon as he had to satiate his nerd lust and have Davros in, it just makes less sense than ever.

I can understand his desire to ignore rigid continuity and soforth in the interest of doing the stories he wants to do, but the story he wants to do in this case is, as you say, all about his legacy, or rather, about satiating his nerd lust. He wanted to have Davros back for some reason, so he even ignored the continuity that he crafted to accomplish it. The initially mysterious time war is now more like an inept writing artefact, in-universe, it must've been incredibly poorly handled on a level the Iraq war could only dream of being.

[Patrick Degan]

Oh dear...

I haven't seen the episode as yet. But from the traffic here, it sounds like a right mess; one of those horribly cliched fanzine stories trying to tie up every bit of continuity and cram in every favourite character/gadget/monster/villain in one go.

Right off the bat, something a bit more coherent could have been made by: losing Rose, the Shadow Proclamation enforcers, Davros, Martha, and Torchwood. Leave in Harriet Jones, give the character some redemption. Leave Donna, Sarah, and UNIT. Have the Daleks being led by Caan, who can fill in the Davros role as effectively and without the baggage of the other character. Forget the Valiant, in fact it would be best to simply pretend LOTTL never happened. Trim the whole thing down enough to give the story some focus instead of scattering the narrative all over the place and amongst so many disparate characters. Obviously, RTD has never heard of the concept Less is More. Or if he had, he seems to have forgotten it.

I'll watch this one when it comes up to get my own impressions of the spectacle, but it's apparent that a lot of editing could have been done at the keyboard before a single frame of film was shot.

[Stark]

The Valiant thing could have been dealt with in the Sontaran episode by having someone say 'gee whiz, shame we don't understand the technology behind Valiant and had to ground her for lack of maintenance, huh?'

What's funnier about this episode is that Davros is all 'oh yeah, Caan is a prophet now don't y'know' and Caan is all ZOMG HERE COMES TEH DARK LORD PS U GON DIE DAVROS and Davros is all 'he only speaks the truth, dig'.

[tim31]

Jesus. I haven't really followed this season, but intrigued, watched this last two, and now feel obliged to watch the finale. What is it with RTD and these overkill endgames?

JACK: What was that plot device you got given?

MARTHA: The Osterhagen Key.

HARRIET: That is not to be used unless RTD remembers it for the next script. Do not mention it again!

[The Guid]

The Valiant thing could have been dealt with in the Sontaran episode by having someone say 'gee whiz, shame we don't understand the technology behind Valiant and had to ground her for lack of maintenance, huh?'

What's funnier about this episode is that Davros is all 'oh yeah, Caan is a prophet now don't y'know' and Caan is all ZOMG HERE COMES TEH DARK LORD PS U GON DIE DAVROS and Davros is all 'he only speaks the truth, dig'.

Perhaps Davros interprerates "Davros will die" as "Davros will unmake evrything - thus also dying." which suits him fine.