How to fix Episode III

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2008-06-25 01:05am

Well.... TESB, ANH, ROTS, TPM, ROTJ that's it. All done. No more... fine.... AOTC.

Galvatron
Dude your sig is HI-larious. Makes me want to go make a Karren Traviss AV just to match the craptasticness of it.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2008-06-30 12:28pm

The best way to improve ROTS:

LINK

Sccmj23 · Post by **Sccmj23** » 2008-07-03 04:05pm

TC Pilot wrote:I always thought ROTS could have been markedly improved (and made far more plausible) if Padme had actually been seriously wounded. Like, instead of simply being Force Choked and "losing the will to live" ( ), Padme comes to, grabs a blaster (maybe taken from one of the dead Seperatists, like Nute Gunray), and goes and finds Anakin and Obi-Wan fighting, chooses at length to shoot Anakin, only to have him "instinctively" turn and deflect the blaster bolt right back at her.

That way, Padme actually has a meaningful part/choice to play in the film, she gets a believable mortal wound (honestly, what kind of mother "losses the will to live" when she's just had children?), and Anakin gets the butt end of his self-fulfilling prophecy.

I couldn't agree more. Obviously the general consensus here is that the movie wasnt that great, but that scene was probably one of the most anti-climactic of the whole entire film.

I mean, why wouldn't they make a scene like Anakin turning to the dark side and attempting to kill his pregnant girlfriend more dramatic? He just choked her and then..... KAPLUT she falls over.

Good job George Lucas... good job... (cue slow, sarcastic clap)

TC Pilot · Post by **TC Pilot** » 2008-07-04 09:00pm

Destructionator XIII wrote:[*]Turn on the fucking lights. I don't know what it is with this love of darkness so many filmmakers have, but I hate it.

Agreed. I can't remember which scene it is exactly, but the transition from dark, black, smoky Mustafar to Organa's SOLID WHITE corvette is blinding in the theater.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2008-07-04 11:54pm

The primary problem with the ROTS was a general lack of emotional depth. The only character I really had any empathy with was Obi-Wan; his motivations and the conflict by his position between Anakin and the Council were explored enough to make him seem human, even without looking to previous components of the canon. It really wouldn't have taken that much to give some depth to the other principle characters, and the price of an extra twenty minutes would have been well worth it.

- Anakin: Explain why he so desperately wants to become a Jedi master; in the film, it seems like he's just a petulant child who's upset that his credentials as "Chosen One" and wartime wunderkind don't entitle him to his every fancy. Instead, include a scene like the one in Stover's novelization, which explains that status as master would allow Anakin access to restricted Jedi archives, where he hopes to find a way to save Padme from his premonition. His possessive and even immature nature is important to his character, too, but I think it was more important to play up more sympathetic motivations in ROTS.

- Padme: Retain the deleted scenes involving the beginnings of the rebellion. Portman's absolute best moment in the movie was the "thunderous applause" line; expand upon that, and I, at least, would care about whether or not she dies in the end.

- The Jedi Order: I thought that the Jedi Purge scene had emotional punch, but it would have been far more effective, as others have pointed out, if Jedi beyond the main characters were shown to be more than militant, glow-stick toting, costume props. Keeping with the original plan to have Shaak-Tii take part in the assault on the Invisible Hand and be executed by Grevious would have given the entire group a vital character boost.

- General Grevious: The good General was presented completely without exposition; for all the uninitiated viewer knew, Dooku appointed him because he found the anachronism of a coughing droid (or cyborg, yes, I know) pleasantly diverting. A few throw-away lines were all that was needed; explain that the cough was the result of a tussle with Mace Windu during the kidnapping, and that Grevious' strategic methods would have impressed Hitler (not in those words, obviously). Including Shaak-Tii's death would have also helped promote the idea that he was a force to be feared.

Oh, and...

- Battle Droids: Did we really need the squeaky, high-pitched voices? Honestly, C-3PO is more than enough comic relief.

FSTargetDrone · Post by **FSTargetDrone** » 2008-07-05 02:50am

Noble Ire wrote:- Battle Droids: Did we really need the squeaky, high-pitched voices? Honestly, C-3PO is more than enough comic relief.

I think the only time any Battle Droid sounded Not Stupidly Annoying was in TPM when a tank commander droid is talking to his superiors. It was all downhill from there.

thejester · Post by **thejester** » 2008-07-05 04:06am

The "you're welcome" line from one of the droids was the absolute pits for me. So unnecessary.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2008-07-05 04:11am

thejester wrote:The "you're welcome" line from one of the droids was the absolute pits for me. So unnecessary.

But the kids loved it!

thejester · Post by **thejester** » 2008-07-05 04:43am

Why didn't anyone mention to him that while the kids might have loved it, they wouldn't have missed its absence?

Darth Hoth · Post by **Darth Hoth** » 2008-07-05 08:32am

Perhaps he lets his own kids proofread the final edit...

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2008-07-05 03:58pm

Why does everyone get so riled about the battle droids having personalities... like every other droid in Star Wars?

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2008-07-05 04:01pm

havokeff wrote:Why does everyone get so riled about the battle droids having personalities... like every other droid in Star Wars?

Because they're whiny high bitched personalities? That sound more like muppets than soliders.

Darth Nostril · Post by **Darth Nostril** » 2008-07-05 04:13pm

havokeff wrote:Why does everyone get so riled about the battle droids having personalities... like every other droid in Star Wars?

R2-D2 & C3-PO have personalities, the battle droids just have silly voices.
I'm not riled about it, it's just irksome, yet another stupid and avoidable niggle that dragged the prequels down.

Darth Hoth · Post by **Darth Hoth** » 2008-07-05 04:25pm

havokeff wrote:Why does everyone get so riled about the battle droids having personalities... like every other droid in Star Wars?

What would you say if Lucas gave all the Stormtroopers squeaky, girlie voices in a hypothetical Ultra-Supermax Enhanced Experience Uberduper It-Fills-My-Pockets-When-You-Idiots-Buy-It Edition of the original trilogy? Would you still regard them as reasonably competent (or even "cool") soldiers or worthy adversaries for space adventure heroes? To also comment on the scene with R2 beating up the SBD 'droids in the hangar, what if he included his own version of "Go Flash Go" with Han and Chewie playing football with the legion they run into on the Death Star?

If you make the enemy silly, hilarious and incompetent, it detracts not only from the seriousness of the film, but also from the good side, since there is essentially no satisfaction in beating them (well, if you overdo it, there is, but for the wrong reason).

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2008-07-05 05:14pm

Darth Hoth wrote:
havokeff wrote:Why does everyone get so riled about the battle droids having personalities... like every other droid in Star Wars?
What would you say if Lucas gave all the Stormtroopers squeaky, girlie voices in a hypothetical Ultra-Supermax Enhanced Experience Uberduper It-Fills-My-Pockets-When-You-Idiots-Buy-It Edition of the original trilogy? Would you still regard them as reasonably competent (or even "cool") soldiers or worthy adversaries for space adventure heroes? To also comment on the scene with R2 beating up the SBD 'droids in the hangar, what if he included his own version of "Go Flash Go" with Han and Chewie playing football with the legion they run into on the Death Star?

If you make the enemy silly, hilarious and incompetent, it detracts not only from the seriousness of the film, but also from the good side, since there is essentially no satisfaction in beating them (well, if you overdo it, there is, but for the wrong reason).

Star Wars is supposed to be serious? I guess I missed the memo. And the point of the battle droids is that they are NOT competent.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2008-07-05 05:15pm

havokeff wrote:
Darth Hoth wrote:
havokeff wrote:Why does everyone get so riled about the battle droids having personalities... like every other droid in Star Wars?
What would you say if Lucas gave all the Stormtroopers squeaky, girlie voices in a hypothetical Ultra-Supermax Enhanced Experience Uberduper It-Fills-My-Pockets-When-You-Idiots-Buy-It Edition of the original trilogy? Would you still regard them as reasonably competent (or even "cool") soldiers or worthy adversaries for space adventure heroes? To also comment on the scene with R2 beating up the SBD 'droids in the hangar, what if he included his own version of "Go Flash Go" with Han and Chewie playing football with the legion they run into on the Death Star?

If you make the enemy silly, hilarious and incompetent, it detracts not only from the seriousness of the film, but also from the good side, since there is essentially no satisfaction in beating them (well, if you overdo it, there is, but for the wrong reason).
Star Wars is supposed to be serious? I guess I missed the memo. And the point of the battle droids is that they are NOT competent.

And that makes for a worse story, compared to other parts of the selfsame saga. Hard to understand, I know.

Darth Hoth · Post by **Darth Hoth** » 2008-07-06 06:41am

havokeff wrote:Star Wars is supposed to be serious? I guess I missed the memo. And the point of the battle droids is that they are NOT competent.

Reasonably serious. SW is not realistic by a long shot, but do you think it should be comedy? What do you think of Jaxxon?

FSTargetDrone · Post by **FSTargetDrone** » 2008-07-07 11:13am

havokeff wrote:Star Wars is supposed to be serious? I guess I missed the memo. And the point of the battle droids is that they are NOT competent.

Well, in the same movie that features bumbling Super Battle Droids (that sound like they've been sucking down helium) which are literally fooling around with R2, we later see a human lose his limbs in an instant before being horribly burned alive. The latter is pretty serious stuff. Not that there is no place for humor in the final film (see the banter between Kenobi and Anakin, which I generally like).

The "persona" (such as it is) of the Trade Fed droids is absolutely absurd and ridiculous to the point to being laughable, and not in a good way. The only portrayal of Trade Fed droids I almost consistently like is that of the Destroyers. The roll in and start blasting. They don't fuck around with mindless banter that seems painfully out of place. They don't speak at all, yes, but they appear far more menacing and are actually problematic to the Jedi at the beginning of TPM.

The Super Battle Droids in AOTC are okay too. There's a small moment I like when one of them knocks aside a damaged or flailing (regular) Battle Droid in the course of fighting. They are also generally menacing and dangerous in AOTC.

But by the time of ROTS, even the SBDs have become silly. The scene in ROTS with R2 in the hangar of The Invisible Hand could have been handled a lot more effectively. Instead of showing them essentially lifting up R2 by his collar and slapping him around, we could have seen them carefully searching for the source of the noise that is R2's comlink. Have them hunt around a bit more, looking for R2 here and there, only to be destroyed by him, somehow. You could still have the sprayed oil (or whatever that was) being ignited by R2, resulting in the other droids' destruction, or something else. Anything else. Just not a bantering Pair of Jokers.

Likewise, the Battle Droids looking down into the turbolift shaft at the Jedi's rising lift should not saying "Uh-oh!" as they watch Anakin leap to safety moments before the lift smashes into them. They should automatically spring backwards from the open doorway. They they could shoot at Anakin or just do something, anything else other than stupidly standing there watching the lift collide with themselves.

This brings to mind other silly droid behavior in the prequels. The Pit Droids in the race scene of TPM were kind of goofy, but that was a lot more tolerable because they are not being used in a heavy scene. I can imagine their owners have had them a long time and haven't wiped their memories, leading to droids with personas (much like 3PO and R2). But battle droids, I get the sense they should be less individualistic. They are mass produced and should be subject to regular memory wipes. Unless their owners desire such personas, it makes no sense.

Not to say that silly banter doesn't have its place in these movies. The banter in ANH TESB was very well done, and even the banter between Kenobi and Anakin in ROTS was really not that bad at all. I just don't want to see it from any droids other than R2 and 3PO. Certainly not from military droids.

The Battle droids in TPM sounded a lot cooler than they do by the time of ROTS. If I had my way, they would all sound like that one tank commander in TPM speaking to his superiors.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2008-07-07 11:42am

I don't have a problem with talking battle droids, or even cynical battle droids. It gives the war far more impact (to anyone who's not a GFFA bigot). But there's no excuse for that shitty voice. The OOMs in TPM sounded cool, even if it was a pretty generic sci-fi deathbot voice. The utter ineptitude of the SDA is bad too, but almost necessary to make the "stand up and shoot" GAR badass.

FSTargetDrone · Post by **FSTargetDrone** » 2008-07-07 12:12pm

Darth Raptor wrote:I don't have a problem with talking battle droids, or even cynical battle droids. It gives the war far more impact (to anyone who's not a GFFA bigot). But there's no excuse for that shitty voice. The OOMs in TPM sounded cool, even if it was a pretty generic sci-fi deathbot voice. The utter ineptitude of the SDA is bad too, but almost necessary to make the "stand up and shoot" GAR badass.

Droids that vocalize are fine. It is the easiest way for them to communicate with humans and other aliens. I don't have a problem with that at all. That said, I don't know that military droids should necessarily be "cynical." If they are starting to formate emotions, this can be hugely problematic. They should be creative, but definitely not emotional. Certainly not when we are talking about military equipment.

I almost feel bad for the various droids as they are hacked apart, each with a plaintive wail: "Ahh!" or "Aiiii!"