Doctor Who S30E13: Journey's End [Spoilers]

[The Guid]

I have to admit even I couldn't swallow some of this. However I still think it had high entertainment factor - probably less rewatchability but I still think it was worth my time watching by a strong margin.

I like having a plot with lots of elements - I don't know which ones will come into effect. I found it all unpredictable, which is unusual for me.

I did find the idea that the second the Doctor gets a human body he instantly decides to settle down a rather bizzare idea, and one that didn't gel with the personality of someone who had been travelling the Universe for about 900 years.

[Darksider]

I’m going to admit something.

I liked seeing the daleks get reduced to useless spinning tops at the end. I've always thought the daleks were over-wanked, and I enjoyed seeing them get theirs for once.

I really don't understand why the daleks are so feared. Maybe it's because I don't have 60+ years of back-story regarding them, but I’ve never seen the daleks as an enemy to be feared by anyone who isn't technologically outclassed like modern earth, or downright retarded.

The design of the daleks as always struck me as stupid. For the most part, they move ridiculously slowly, their giant knobby dildo shape leaves them with no ability whatsoever to take cover during a fight, and their only means of perceiving their environment is a retardedly protruding eyestalk that looks like it could snap like a twig

[Stark]

Yeah, how can you be powerful if you look dumb? I mean, stealing planets, time travel, giant space fleets... but they LOOK DUMB LOL.

I think the best part of this episode is that RTD named it after himself, and not plot developments. The only 'journey' that 'ends' is HIS. What a cocksnap. At least the episode allows all to see what a self-parodying uncritical fanboy idiot Big Orange is, for the preschoolers who hadn't noticed.

And while people (nerds) might 'like' the retarded key thing, it offends me with it's stupidity. Flash played that scene down a voip call to me - because he hates me - and I'm sorry, but RTD's hilarious 'guns r bad' thing is now so absurd that the human race would rather commit suicide (with the worst designed system concievable, no less; a proper invasion or orbital attack would leave no possiblity of using it at all) than simply fight. They surrendered in five minutes because they're cowards and guns r bad, but then they're fine wiping out the entire species? And people think that's GOOD? Hint to human race - put supernukes on spaceship. Shoot supernukes at enemy. This may work better than surrendering after barely firing a shot and then blowing up your own planet out of impotent spite. Whoops, I forgot after Canary Wharf nobody spent any money on Earth defence, because it's not like a giant Titanic nearly crashed into the Palace, or London was attacked by any UFOs.

Also, Martha is a dribbling idiot. If she'd simply blown up the Earth, S4 might have been worth something; but she decided to natter on uselessly (ps we had a year of that already) instead.

[Plekhanov]

It was just awful, packed full of unnecessary self indulgent idiocy by RTD. My wife recently started watching the first series of the rebooted Dr Who and the overall decline in quality since then is really pronounced (not that RTD could ever really end series well).

Moffat can't take over soon enough.

[Vympel]

Just plain awful. Truly the worst finale ever for Dr Who. The absurdity of defeating the Daleks because The Doctor-Donna is in front of a console was just too much to bear, as was the torrents and torrents of technobabble-shit that accompanied it.

[Stark]

Just plain awful. Truly the worst finale ever for Dr Who. The absurdity of defeating the Daleks because The Doctor-Donna is in front of a console was just too much to bear, as was the torrents and torrents of technobabble-shit that accompanied it.

While Flash was watching it, he messaged me 'good thing that console had a blow up the Daleks button'. When he later explained what he meant, I was bamboozled. The finales have always been a bit contrived, but this was retarded.

[Patrick Degan]

Well, I just got finished watching "The Stolen Planet" and "Journey's End" on YouTube.

Jesus.

[Atavarius]

I could almost tolerate it. It was crappy, the dialogue was bad, the whole lets off earth. I could almost stomach it. Then I saw the Dr. Donna crap. So long RTD, you fucking hack.

[Patrick Degan]

Right...

After nearly an hour to collect my thoughts.

Confession time: way back when I was about, oh, 19, and was a budding fanzine writer who then didn't know shit about creating real literary drama, I banged out for our little club's 'zine a Daleks-threaten-the-universe story which thankfully has been lost to the mists of ancient history. Had some of the same elements as this RTD two parter: Daleks planning to reorder the whole of the universe to suit themselves, a huge Dalek worldship, lots of time manipulation (that was a big part of the "plot"), a little subplot of a Dalek time squad trying to hunt down the Doctor, and a CIA agent who served as an infodump to clue in the Doctor. The scheme, far as I can recall after a bit over two decades, was that the Daleks were going to use a Time Destructor bomb at the moment of the Big Bang and alter the resulting configuration of the universe so that no other life would evolve, the Daleks being safe by shifting their worldship into a deeper level of the space/time vortex or something like that. They would emerge into a universe devoid of other living beings and simply proceed to occupy it with themselves. The Doctor decides on a last-ditch plan to time-ram the bomb with the TARDIS and chases it down through the vortex. Naturally, his plan succeeds and the TARDIS survives the manoeuver.

I used one Doctor (Pertwee), one companion (Sarah), involved UNIT at the beginning, had only one extra Time Lord in the picture, had developed a subplot in which the Daleks were causing time disruption at various points in the universe to nobble the Time Lords from interfering, as well as to set up the right conditions for their Big Bomb to do its work. One of the most ridiculous fanzine plots you can think of, or rather a typical effort from a fanboy which I was then, and a piece of "writing" which I was grateful had gone utterly forgotten after only a tiny march of years.

I expose this minor embarrassment in my career at this juncture to observe that what I had written back then in full fanboy fever seems to have been a hell of a lot more coherent and economical in storytelling than what I just saw two hours ago as RTD's swansong on Doctor Who.

Jesus.

It could have been worse. A lot worse. In fact, I can see just about all the points at which this mishmash of a story could have been a lot worse. Had a couple of moments which were worth looking at if you didn't mind wading through the slop. I have to wonder what Graeme Harper, who had helmed the brilliant "The Caves Of Androzani" thought while having to try to make something watchable out of this mess.

It was exactly as I'd opined in the previous thread going only by the message traffic; a narrative so scattered that it's hard to pull any particular plot thread together with another and make sense of it. Plot points which are trotted out, and then simply go nowhere (Shadow Proclamation, Ostrahagen Key, Warp Manifold charm necklace, etc, etc, etc...). You've got Sarah regressing somewhat as a character, Jack acting completely out of character, in part one of this mess, as they're about to piss themselves like every other human being on Earth, as if they've never faced down alien menaces on their own or had years of experience at it. You've got cackling-loony Davros, backed by even nuttier cackling-loony Dalek Caan, who's got the number one enemy of his creations right in his grasp yet of course has to go into full Blofeld mode and keep him around to gloat.

And I still can't decide what contrivance was worse: the Reality Bomb (the late Douglas Adams had his own opinions about such nonsensical, overblown Macguffins as conveying nothing in any real world which any audience could possibly bother to care about) as the Big Menace™ to all we hold dear, or RTD pulling extra Doctors out of his ass including Donna-Doctor, who gets zapped at just the right moment to go into full Doctor mode and finds the Fuck Up Daleks buttons on the console in Davros' prison cell.

I mean, that's far far worse than Bad Wolf Rose. That's worse than the Archangel Network and Jesus-Doctor. Both of those made far better sense than the wasted regeneration leading to Clone-Doctor and Donna-Doctor.

Mr. Davies really should abstain from the crack pipe while scriptwriting.

And as for Donna... She might not have been the best of companions we've seen over the years, but what a way to waste her. It makes her entire time on the series a joke. Damn but she didn't deserve that. In fact, it was a cheap copout as the only logical development of her storyline is that Donna Noble actually dies. She would have lived up to her name, sacrificing herself to save worlds beyond counting. The noblest Donna of them all, as the Doctor could have eulogised. But then again, RTD would have found a way to fuck that up instead of mining it for the drama it was worth.

So, at the end of the day, "The Stolen Earth"/"Journey's End" was a horribly incoherent mess, riven with utterly useless plot points which contribute nothing whatsoever to the "story", had an utterly ridiculous Macguffin which had my eyes rolling back in their sockets at the sheer ridiculousness of it, and had one of the most horribly contrived Macguffins pulled entirely out of RTD's ass to wrap up the whole thing, in the process making the Daleks into utter crap villains and making me wonder at least at one point what has happened to the Doctor Who I knew and loved, or even to the Doctor Who which restarted with such promise with Chris Eccleston that it came down to a fanservice mock turtle's ball.

Jesus...

[NecronLord]

I’m going to admit something.

I liked seeing the daleks get reduced to useless spinning tops at the end. I've always thought the daleks were over-wanked, and I enjoyed seeing them get theirs for once.

I really don't understand why the daleks are so feared. Maybe it's because I don't have 60+ years of back-story regarding them, but I’ve never seen the daleks as an enemy to be feared by anyone who isn't technologically outclassed like modern earth, or downright retarded.

The design of the daleks as always struck me as stupid. For the most part, they move ridiculously slowly, their giant knobby dildo shape leaves them with no ability whatsoever to take cover during a fight, and their only means of perceiving their environment is a retardedly protruding eyestalk that looks like it could snap like a twig

I think my last sig explained it pretty well. If you're in a death camp, do you care how bad Hitler or Uncle Joe's moustache looks? Or Kim Jon Il's hilariously unfashionable glasses? Real tyrants more often than not do look stupid. It doesn't make them any less dangerous.

It's not just modern earth they out class. It's every other race but the Time Lords (and possibly a few other uberwank civilizations) that has or ever will exist.

They are smart enough to build a Reality Bomb in a bubble of invulnerability, and hateful enough to actually use it. You wouldn't be afraid of that?

[Flagg]

I gave this one a 2. The sole reason for that is because it was exactly what I was expecting and not worse. I also thought it was actually better than last weeks. Now then, let us never speak of this again.

[Darth Yoshi]

Fuck, simply reading the synopsis made me feel stupid. Or stupider, depending on who you ask. I can't imagine actually sitting through the whole thing. Doctor Donna? Half-human Doctor? Doctor getting pissy at other-Doctor for wiping out the Daleks, when he's done the exact same thing before? That was fucking terrible.

[NecronLord]

Doctor getting pissy at other-Doctor for wiping out the Daleks, when he's done the exact same thing before? That was fucking terrible.

To be fair, I don't think he did. I think that's audience interpretation. I saw it as 'New Doctor points out that they've got to be destroyed. True Doctor agrees. Doctors do it and fly off. True Doctor leaves new Doctor with Rose because he wants rid of him, and wants them to be happy, gives some nonsense 'born in battle' excuse.' At no point does he say that destroying the daleks was a bad idea.

[Ryushikaze]

Say... has anyone thought that Caan was deliberately sabotaging the Daleks? He was utterly bonkers, and they were following his proclamations as gospel, so it's entirely possible he was setting them all up for the fall, hence, the Dalek destruction button.

I like the ending, and I like that RTD isn't going to be doing the finales any longer. Aside from that, and a few gems, meh.

[NecronLord]

"The Power Feed control must be placed so that the Creator can use it come the time." Seems likely. But that's the kind of thing a writer should at least hang a lantern on, rather than leave for the audience to try and explain.

[General Zod]

Say... has anyone thought that Caan was deliberately sabotaging the Daleks? He was utterly bonkers, and they were following his proclamations as gospel, so it's entirely possible he was setting them all up for the fall, hence, the Dalek destruction button.

Was this sarcasm? I'm 99% positive Caan admitted as much to leading the Daleks to their destruction. Sabotage is pretty much a gimme.

[Hillary]

Say... has anyone thought that Caan was deliberately sabotaging the Daleks? He was utterly bonkers, and they were following his proclamations as gospel, so it's entirely possible he was setting them all up for the fall, hence, the Dalek destruction button.

I like the ending, and I like that RTD isn't going to be doing the finales any longer. Aside from that, and a few gems, meh.

Obviously RTD thought that, as it was explained Caan had betrayed them during the episode.

As for me, I thought it was OK but not as good as the previous episode.

Good things - no reset button, Caan's betrayal, Davros and the Doctor's exchanges, German Daleks, Bernard Cribbens (I entirely recant my previous comments), Doctor Donna and Donna Doctor (drown me in your derision ), the Daleks nullifying the companions' plots with a simple teleport.

Bad things - warp star necklace (eh?), Mickey and SJS's easy escape from Dalek captivity, the schmaltz of the 6-handed TARDIS flying scene, Martha Jones's continual inability to act, the comedy spinning Daleks, the largely pointless appearance of SJS, Rose, Mickey, Jackie, Jack (what a waste) and co.

I see Torchwood have replace computer expert Tosh with Mickey and medic Owen with Martha. Ho Hum.

[Ryushikaze]

Say... has anyone thought that Caan was deliberately sabotaging the Daleks? He was utterly bonkers, and they were following his proclamations as gospel, so it's entirely possible he was setting them all up for the fall, hence, the Dalek destruction button.

Was this sarcasm? I'm 99% positive Caan admitted as much to leading the Daleks to their destruction. Sabotage is pretty much a gimme.

Well, I meant more than sabotage, more than just leading the Doctor to their doorstep, but actually directing the Daleks to install the crap that let them be rendered ineffectual so simply. I should have taken more time to elaborate on that.

Also, I definitely think the 'genocide' objection was an excuse to let copydoctor stay with Rose. He only gives his token objection to it (compared to the fuss made in Doctor's Daughter), and his course of action is to 'exile' the man to rehabilitation with Rose.

I'm curious to see what the new seasons of the spinoffs- as well as the off season for the Doctor- will bring under the new management. The changes to torchwood are looking pretty obvious, but I'm curious how Sarah Jane's going to be affected, if at all.

[Zixinus]

The whole "no guns" thing has come out of control. I hope under new management they get a little different treatment, at least admitting that they are potent weapons. It's of course another thing how those weapons will be used.

I also hope that we get a proffesional writer on the team and not someone who's so much in love with his own ideas that THEY MUST BE made to screen.

This episode was that: RTD saying goodbye to the his Dr.Who carrier. Firefly done this too, but there it was done subtely and with a point (it WAS the end of the series). It was also done with decent story, unlike the ass-pull excercise that this peice of shit was.

Say... has anyone thought that Caan was deliberately sabotaging the Daleks? He was utterly bonkers, and they were following his proclamations as gospel, so it's entirely possible he was setting them all up for the fall, hence, the Dalek destruction button.

No. I doubt anyone would have taken any sort of technical advice from Cann, the guy was batshit bonkers all the way. He was pretty much just kept for amusement value and because of Davros said so.

The console was just conviently placed but really, the timelord-human hybrid was so uber wanktastic for RTD, that she could have disabled the daleks with some cola cans and some string.

[Bounty]

I've just seen the episode and I honestly don't know what to think. It had bad slash fiction, bad technobabble, character stupidity on a level I never thought possible and a plot that never really knew where it was going.

But at the same time, it kinda... worked. Almost nearly, anyway. The scenes between the Doctor and Davros were great, as was a large chunk of the dénouement. In particular, I think what happened to Donna, as craptacular as the idea may be, was handled pretty well. While it's sad to see Donna go, and especially a tremendous wasted opportunity to lose her Doctor Donna persona, the acting and directing sold the scenes regardless.

And there was a sort of joy in seeing all the spin-off characters together. Seeing a Tardis fly with a full crew may have been exceptionally corny, but it worked to show what SJS said, how the Doctor has built up a family again.

However, that doesn't excuse the haphazard plot the rest of the episode had. Like in many RTD stories, the second half of the story is a parade of Big Reveals and infodumps that fail to have any impact whatsoever, either emotionally or on the course of the plot. The Warp Star and Osterhagen Key were completely superfluous, with the Key actually dragging UNIT down a few notches. Much of the side plots felt like padding - what was the point of the German grounds keeper pulling a gun, other than trying to hype up the Osterhagen station, a station that wasn't a very impressive idea to begin with and ended up going nowhere?

Ideally I'd have saved maybe half a dozen scenes and pasted them into a good plot. Doctor/Davros, Doctor Donna, the "children of time", all of these would have been better served being part of an episode that wasn't so lacklustre in trying to create drama.

So it's a 2 out of 5 for me, barely. I was somewhat amused and moved, but that doesn't quite weight up against the unengaging plot and multiple fanfic-level scenes - Doctors and Rose on the beach, any one? I'd give it an automatic extra point for having scenes with Eve Myles, but since the character basically sat still until she needed to push a button, I'm not bothering.

Incidentally, about Torchwood - Martha joining the cast seems to be a given at this point. Will they add Mickey too? I can only hope they don't.

[Revy]

Geez this was a bad episode. I never used to watch Dr Who, but I saw a random episode of the neo-series and got hooked, so I started from 'Rose' and I've got as far as the Cybusmen double epp. But I saw this when it was on and all I can do is shake my head. It made no sense. I even said at one point "Wtf, do they have some kind of 'blow up the Daleks' button or something?". And gack at the technobable. And the Doctor/Donna mess. And Doctor Two (as I took to calling him while complaining at my TV during the episode).

Is it worth continuing to watch the older episodes? I'm early/mid season 2 at the moment, is the rest of S2 and any of S3 any good?

[Jade Falcon]

At least thats the end of Rose (thank fuck). If I have to see that tooth-faced troll moon over the Doctor again I think I'd kill.

Now, regarding the end of the episode. I liked it. I liked Donna, I thought it was good to have a WOMAN travel with the Doctor & interact with him in a mature & not-an-I-sqee-for-you-doc-tor fashion. I was impressed by Catherine Tate & felt that the way she left was genuinely heart-breaking.

Too bad that bit of great drama was ruined with some Daleks & shit.

Amen, I was never a fan of Rose but she was tolerable in Season 1 but started to grate after that.

The whole big thing of bringing her back, and what the hell does she do? Try to look tough with a big gun and that's about it. This was pretty bad overall.

[Patrick Degan]

Geez this was a bad episode. I never used to watch Dr Who, but I saw a random episode of the neo-series and got hooked, so I started from 'Rose' and I've got as far as the Cybusmen double epp. But I saw this when it was on and all I can do is shake my head. It made no sense. I even said at one point "Wtf, do they have some kind of 'blow up the Daleks' button or something?". And gack at the technobable. And the Doctor/Donna mess. And Doctor Two (as I took to calling him while complaining at my TV during the episode).

Is it worth continuing to watch the older episodes? I'm early/mid season 2 at the moment, is the rest of S2 and any of S3 any good?

Oh, they're more or less worthwhile. Just avoid the S3 and S4 finales.

[Straha]

And as for Donna... She might not have been the best of companions we've seen over the years, but what a way to waste her. It makes her entire time on the series a joke. Damn but she didn't deserve that. In fact, it was a cheap copout as the only logical development of her storyline is that Donna Noble actually dies. She would have lived up to her name, sacrificing herself to save worlds beyond counting. The noblest Donna of them all, as the Doctor could have eulogised. But then again, RTD would have found a way to fuck that up instead of mining it for the drama it was worth.

You know what's worse? Remember Turn Left and the fan reaction here. It was overwhelmingly "Why the fuck am I supposed to give a shit about Donna when all she does in this episode is act like a complete and total retard who grates on my every nerve. Every nerve. Thank heavens she's actually changed a little with the Doctor so she's not quite as annoying." Except, in the end, all that's done away. All the character development (if you could call it such) for Donna was flushed down the toilet and we're left with this utterly unlikable person who goes nattering away on her cellphone like a retarded monkey in our last scene with her. So why should we care about the new her? Why do we care at all? It's infuriating in its own special way.

[Thanas]

Okay....well....shit. I mean really, shit.

You know what happened to me? I watched the Season 2 DVDs before this. I even timed it right so I could watch this after Doomsday. One can imagine my reaction.

I am not going to bother and list all the points that grated on me, but contrasted with Doomsday...men, what suck. Doomsday had characters you cared about, great pacing and drama. And now, what does this have? A near-useless cast where the only redeeming factors were Tennant's performance at the end.

Fuck, this was completely useless as a finale. A finale is supposed to end things and maybe to set up new plotlines. Not waste half an hour with padding. Jack/Martha and Mickey could all have been cut from the story with no problem. Dalek Caan was the only character who rocked the episode. His little speech to Davros was great.

And finally, the sheer nonsense of it. So the doctor is able to regenerate into his hand, which then creates duplicates of him? I mean, if RTD had wanted to end the Rose arc, he could have simply shown them taking off, with the next special ending with him standing somewhere in the future before her grave.