Lunar Earth (rwarr!)

[Enforcer Talen]

Assuming worst case peak oil global warming, earth is dying. The Emperor has indicated to you that you to select one million people for a premade, self sustaining orbital colony to ensure humanity survives.

What are your qualifiers to figure who goes?

[General Zod]

This is simple. 700,000 scientists and engineers. 50,000 military personnel. 100,000 doctors and surgeons. 100,000 highly skilled workers and technicians. 50,000 "ordinary" people for grunt labor, to be determined by lottery. Qualifiers for highly skilled and scientists include peer-reviewed studies published, years of experience, and religious inclinations. The non-religious gain preferential treatment in selection.

[Enforcer Talen]

For myself, Im thinking;

Must speak English. Having additional languages is preferred.
No fundamentalists.
The basic infrastracture for maintenance (ie, NASA)
Me and mine
Equal gender ratio
Wide genetic range

Of varying numbers:

Military personnel - U.S. Marines
Scientists, engineers, lawyers - rational thinking
Anthopologists and social sciences
Innovators - creators of Google, etc
Medical personnel

More to follow >_>

[Red]

Preservation of genetic diversity is a priority for me. I'd suggest that of the million, roughly 200k be devoted to groups of 50-100 from various minor tribes and such. At 100 per (arbitrarily determined) group, that amounts to 2000 groups preserved in the gene pool.

Of the remaining 800k, I'd be inclined to set (again, arbitrary) quotas. 10k Chinese, say; 10k Japanese; 10k Russians; and so forth.

~ ~ ~

Moving past genetic diversity, Zod's qualifiers seem rather interesting. I'm not so sure on the "non-religious preferred", though absolutely no militant fundies, etc. I'd imagine background checks are going to go through the roof in authorizing these people loading on board.

I'd also posit that "700,000 scientists" is going to be unreasonable, as it may be difficult to find 700k scientists willing to leave their spouses and kids behind. And furthermore, even if you could, there is a sociological question at play: do you WANT a society made up from 700k people who were willing to leave their families behind in order to survive on a colony? Allowances must be made for families, in my opinion; and the effort should be made not to split families up. I'd actually suggest that, rather than 700k scientists, the quota would be more like "700k devoted to scientists and their families".

Even at the extreme of allowing every scientist to bring 24 family members maximum (their spouse, kids and their spouses, grandkids, perhaps siblings and such), this allows for 28,000 actual scientists; and then 672k maximum "dead weight". I would then further say that the 672k, as families of scientists and raised in a colony where science is key, become the base for the developing colony-culture.

Of course, these numbers assume that each and every scientist is going to shuffle 24 family members on board; I would assume that a fair number will in fact come onboard alone, or others bring only a spouse or spouse and a few young kids.

~ ~ ~

Ideological screening is an imperative. It's arbitrary, but I don't want any communist revolutions on my space colony. I have little to say on how to accomplish it, but I thought it should at least be thrown out there.

[Hawkwings]

What sort of tech level is this? If it's near future, we might want a higher ratio of skilled workers to thinkers, because someone's gotta go out and actually build and maintain the giant lunar excavators and whatnot.

[Enforcer Talen]

Near future, ja. 2020-2050.

[Lord of the Abyss]

This is simple. 700,000 scientists and engineers. 50,000 military personnel.

If this is the only such colony, why so many military personnel ? With no one to fight or deter from attack they'd be dead weight.

At most, you'd want a few for future teaching purposes as the colony builds more colonies in the long term future.

[dragon]

This is simple. 700,000 scientists and engineers. 50,000 military personnel.

If this is the only such colony, why so many military personnel ? With no one to fight or deter from attack they'd be dead weight.

At most, you'd want a few for future teaching purposes as the colony builds more colonies in the long term future.

You would want the military to keep the few remaining people from erath attempting to launch an attack. Also given a few decades you might want to send teams back to earth for various reasons.

Plus many of the soliders of today modern military are semi skilled laborers. For example look at the air force tech inclined but disiciplined and still performs grunt work such as building airfields. Army signal corps, Army Corps of Engineers, Army EOD (Explosive Ordinance) and many more skill sets that are usefull for a colony.

[Lord of the Abyss]

This is simple. 700,000 scientists and engineers. 50,000 military personnel.

If this is the only such colony, why so many military personnel ? With no one to fight or deter from attack they'd be dead weight.

At most, you'd want a few for future teaching purposes as the colony builds more colonies in the long term future.

You would want the military to keep the few remaining people from erath attempting to launch an attack. Also given a few decades you might want to send teams back to earth for various reasons.

Plus many of the soliders of today modern military are semi skilled laborers. For example look at the air force tech inclined but disiciplined and still performs grunt work such as building airfields. Army signal corps, Army Corps of Engineers, Army EOD (Explosive Ordinance) and many more skill sets that are usefull for a colony.

At most, you'd need only a small number to stop an attack from Earth if it could be done at all. Either their position in orbit protects them, or the vastly greater numbers of Earth would overwhelm them. The only military they need that would matter would be some missile or laser technicians. And that's assuming that this "Emperor" won't do the obvious and protect them with his vastly more numerous and more heavily equipped forces until the danger's over and Earth no longer a threat.

And a huge military force is simply a luxury in this scenario; a scenario where luxuries aren't something that can be afforded. Instead of "semi-skilled" laborers they'd be better off with some skilled ones. Five percent of the population as soldiers is way too much of the population for a group that won't have ANY outside enemies for quite some time, except for an early period where the Emperor can protect it anyway. And having thousands of soldiers sitting around doing nothing ( or even just substandard work ) isn't going to do the morale or loyalty of all the people who had to leave family members behind to die just so some extra soldiers could be crammed on board.

[KlavoHunter]

This is simple. 700,000 scientists and engineers. 50,000 military personnel.

If this is the only such colony, why so many military personnel ? With no one to fight or deter from attack they'd be dead weight.

At most, you'd want a few for future teaching purposes as the colony builds more colonies in the long term future.

Of course, we could turn this into the next STGOD...

[General Zod]

This is simple. 700,000 scientists and engineers. 50,000 military personnel.

If this is the only such colony, why so many military personnel ? With no one to fight or deter from attack they'd be dead weight.

At most, you'd want a few for future teaching purposes as the colony builds more colonies in the long term future.

Military personnel could double as skilled workers in addition to any necessary security. In the unusual chance of accidents or mishaps, you'll want a well trained force capable of responding quickly to prevent as much damage as possible and policing the civilian populace, and quite frankly the military is the best I can think of for such a wide variety of roles. Since this is a million people we're talking about, 50k seems to me a sufficient enough ratio to provide security to more sensitive areas in addition to highly skilled labor and emergency response.

[Gil Hamilton]

Well, were I the Emperor, what I'd probably do would be build up a support staff of enough people to run and then, upon barring people with communicable diseases and gross genetic illnesses, look at the demographics of a midsized city and start drafting.

Or if I was really pressed for time, just draft an entire midsized city and give them colonization orders. The only problem is that a million people is ALOT of mouths to feed for an orbital colony. However, if I have enough lifting capacity to sent them and a large enough colony to support them into space, I'm probably going to drop as many tons of volatiles as I can on the lunar surface and start setting up farming domes. Most of the people drafted who aren't children are going to get peasanted and end up as farmers or miners on the lunar surface (setting up means to collect more volatiles, mostly), but in order to sustain that sort of population in space, everyone MUST work.

[Guardsman Bass]

How much automation do we have here? If the colony is going to be self-sustaining, then presumably we need the ability to manufacture spare parts as well as grow our own food (although we might be able to raid the surface for good stuff). That means that a decent chunk of your population will have to be people involved with the manufacture of replacement parts and agriculture, plus their families (otherwise your colony won't propagate itself). This group could very well take up most of the colonial population, particularly if you have to more or less get your components from raw material to processed product.

Beyond those, we need a number of engineers and a larger number of technicians to maintain and repair the colony (with at least a few of those trained to do repairs in vaccuum with spacesuits), plus a small number of scientists to keep an eye on things in the solar system (particularly solar activity) and the status of the Earth. We'll need a number of security personnel to keep order - more or less colonial police. Since this is a population million-strong, you are probably going to have full-time colonial leadership people. Then, of course, there are the "services" people; doctors, some teachers (although this could be supplemented by electronic materials), some people trained to help deal with psychological problems, and so on and so forth, although you try to be economical with the latter group aside from doctors.

[NecronLord]

You would want the military to keep the few remaining people from erath attempting to launch an attack.

Why? Their skills are almost completely obsolete in a lunar enviroment, unless they're missile technicians.

I'd bring policemen and expert workers instead.

[dragon]

You would want the military to keep the few remaining people from erath attempting to launch an attack.

Why? Their skills are almost completely obsolete in a lunar enviroment, unless they're missile technicians.

I'd bring policemen and expert workers instead.

Let see electricians, communications, computers, medical and so forth. I am am not talking about keeping a bunch of illiterate infantry around but the skilled soldiers that provide critical tasks and whom secondary task is that of being a solider.

[Lord of the Abyss]

You would want the military to keep the few remaining people from erath attempting to launch an attack.

Why? Their skills are almost completely obsolete in a lunar enviroment, unless they're missile technicians.

I'd bring policemen and expert workers instead.

Let see electricians, communications, computers, medical and so forth. I am am not talking about keeping a bunch of illiterate infantry around but the skilled soldiers that provide critical tasks and whom secondary task is that of being a solider.

Why ? Why should there be a significant number of soldiers at all, with no enemy to shoot at ? And they aren't going to be as good as people who specialize in those civilian jobs would be.

And as I said, including a huge number of soldiers for no good reason - which means you are condemning others, including friends and relatives of the other colonists - is sure to create morale problems, loyalty problems, and so on.

[dragon]

So going by thatr criteria Samatha Carter would not be a good choice because shes a solider. What about nuclear engineers some of the best in the world belong to the US Navy. Space engineering systems, satellites some of the best are in the US Airforce. Out of millions of soliders around the world you would pick the cream of the crop and they will have the added benefits of military disicpline. I'm not saying take the soliders for their fighting ability but for the speciality skills.

And what taking soliders have to do with condeming friends and relatives of the colonists. The soliders are colonists as well and they have their own familly members. Plus also look at history many of the expeditions ands early colony were people that were good explores and fighters.

Sure some of the militaries on our planet sucks but there are a very high number of well trained and skilled pool to pick from.

How about this these people won't be soldiers but will instead be reservists that the colony can call apon if need exists.

[CJvR]

Medical testing as well as skills and education, pointless to bring along hereditary flaws, HIV, Malaria and ever other piece of crap from our past we really don't need to carry along anymore. Selection for a younger population to extend the first generation as long as possible with the gender % adjusted for future growth preferences and maximum genetic diversity.

[Lord of the Abyss]

So going by thatr criteria Samatha Carter would not be a good choice because shes a solider.

No, because she's fictional, not to mention implausible.

What about nuclear engineers some of the best in the world belong to the US Navy. Space engineering systems, satellites some of the best are in the US Airforce. Out of millions of soliders around the world you would pick the cream of the crop and they will have the added benefits of military disicpline. I'm not saying take the soliders for their fighting ability but for the speciality skills.

Why not take the best, whether or not they happen to be soldiers ? Why a quota of 50,000 ? There's no reason to have anywhere near that many. And the "benefits" of military discipline are arguable.

And what taking soliders have to do with condeming friends and relatives of the colonists.

Because if you are getting 50,000 soldiers, you are locking out tens of thousands of non soldiers just because you specifically want a big military for some reason.

Plus also look at history many of the expeditions ands early colony were people that were good explores and fighters.

And they were also fighting against people. Of course you want soldiers in what amounts to a drawn out campaign of conquest and/or genocide. That's not what this is; they aren't up against Moon Men or the Lizard People of Saturn. Asteroids don't shoot at you.

How about this these people won't be soldiers but will instead be reservists that the colony can call apon if need exists.

Why bother ? Pick the best people, military or not. I'm not saying you should lock out military personnel; I'm saying there's no reason to have a 50,000 person military with no one to shoot at. You have a small military force to keep the skills and traditions alive for when you'll need them, but that's all. This is too desperate a situation to have such a large white elephant of a military with no enemy to fight. Militaries are an expensive drain on a society, and in this case a drain with no need.

[General Zod]

Why bother ? Pick the best people, military or not. I'm not saying you should lock out military personnel; I'm saying there's no reason to have a 50,000 person military with no one to shoot at. You have a small military force to keep the skills and traditions alive for when you'll need them, but that's all. This is too desperate a situation to have such a large white elephant of a military with no enemy to fight. Militaries are an expensive drain on a society, and in this case a drain with no need.

We're talking a million people here, so 50,000 is really a drop in the bucket. Considering the sheer amount of skilled personnel in the military, picking people who are good technicians and engineers out of the entire world's military would simply double your skilled worker pool and add to your available skill sets. If you want toss in their families so they won't be abandoning them. But what is needed are people with multiple useful skill sets, and the military arguably has a great deal of these.

[Lord of the Abyss]

We're talking a million people here, so 50,000 is really a drop in the bucket..

50,000, and a huge amount of really expensive equipment, AND people who will be less productive because they will be spending so much time in military drills.

And without the equipment or the drill, what's the point in specifying 50,000 military in the first place ?

To me, this just looks like an insistence on having a major military component just for the status symbol value.

[Patrick Degan]

Keep in mind, of course, that the breeding programme must be structured around a ratio of ten females to each male, and that the females must be selected for their sexual characteristics which must be of a highly stimulating nature.

[General Zod]

We're talking a million people here, so 50,000 is really a drop in the bucket..

50,000, and a huge amount of really expensive equipment, AND people who will be less productive because they will be spending so much time in military drills.

And without the equipment or the drill, what's the point in specifying 50,000 military in the first place ?

Who exactly said anything about spending a lot of time in military drills?

I'm talking military technicians, engineers and scientists. These people are more highly skilled workers than soldiers, meaning their knowledge of combat is secondary to their value as skilled workers and leaders. Which means that their time doing any sort of drills will be minimal. Frankly, they also have a considerably greater amount of discipline than your average civilian force, which is why they would be an ideal candidate. Multiple skill sets + rigorous discipline = highly valued placement.

[Lord of the Abyss]

Who exactly said anything about spending a lot of time in military drills?

As I just said, if you aren't then there's no point in specifying military people in the first place.

I'm talking military technicians, engineers and scientists. These people are more highly skilled workers than soldiers, meaning their knowledge of combat is secondary to their value as skilled workers and leaders. Which means that their time doing any sort of drills will be minimal. Frankly, they also have a considerably greater amount of discipline than your average civilian force, which is why they would be an ideal candidate. Multiple skill sets + rigorous discipline = highly valued placement.

I see no evidence that military technicians are superior to civilian ones.

[General Zod]

As I just said, if you aren't then there's no point in specifying military people in the first place.

Meaningless false dilemma. Military drills do not have to consume an inordinate amount of time in a planned society. You're the only one saying they will.

I see no evidence that military technicians are superior to civilian ones.

Civilian ones are superior exactly. . .why? Military personnel tend to be capable of handling a greater deal of pressure with much tighter deadlines than their civilian counterparts are used to. That is why I specifically mentioned discipline, which is going to be essential in any sort of colony not based on earth with very limited resources.