SD.net's World OOC/Discussion thread MK V

[RogueIce]

So Shep used OOC information? I'm with Coyote, there was no damn plan with a set timetable. All it was is discussion. This "preemptive first strike" plan was no more an imminent reality than whatever plans the US has to invade Canada.

In other words, Shep's justification is pure bullshit.

[K. A. Pital]

And also because I love Shroomy.

Shroom's the soul of SDN, gotta give him the credit

All about soul!

[MKSheppard]

So Shep used OOC information? I'm with Coyote, there was no damn plan with a set timetable.

Despite August/September being specifically mentioned? You guys need to work on intra-MESS coordination better.

[RogueIce]

But you know, there's an easy way to deal with this. Ignore it. Seriously. Shep can't dictate what happened to us. We can only validate it by responding.

If we don't, then as far as we're concerned it didn't happen. Given he's using OOC information to stage his attack (and incorrect information at that) I think that's pretty reasonable.

Or we just Q him with something. *shrug* Majority rules in STGOD, guys.

[Raj Ahten]

Shep, your whole attitude on the use of force, let alone nukes, would have eventually led to a war. The fact that you murder tens of thousands for the deaths of almost no one (the spy plane incident) shows you want a war. Why didn't you launch in the first crisis? Why don't you tell us? Was it because everyone pressured you to please not end the game world yet and you agreed not to?

Also, don't act like you have no other options besides a first strike. You could've tried any number of political options, such as revealing you know what they are planning. The FUN would've almost certainly tried to restrain the MESS from any offensive action. But you didn't try anything, you just launched based on a rumor, or at best, a half baked scheme of some MESS nations.

You'd nuke the FUN because Shepnukistani policy kills tens of thousands for almost no reason at all. The fact one rival power group is gaining nuclear weapons and is getting closer links to the other (the Canasian THEL and other deals with the FUN) would mean an untenable strategic position for you. With your mindset, why wouldn't you nuke them before the balance of power swings too far? You obviously don’t give a shit about human life in this scenario.

[RogueIce]

So Shep used OOC information? I'm with Coyote, there was no damn plan with a set timetable.

Despite August/September being specifically mentioned? You guys need to work on intra-MESS coordination better.

Last time I checked, Beowulf does not by himself set policy for the MESS.

At worst it is an idea Tian Xia, alone, is formulating. It has never been brought to an official vote by the Administrative Council, let alone acted upon.

And that's disregarding the fact none of it happened in-game. It's like me speculating in OOC that I'm going to expand my SSN fleet with 10 new boats. Until I make a game post about it, it doesn't happen.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

This wouldn't be the first time that Shep jumped the gun anyway and shot first, ask questions later.

[MKSheppard]

At worst it is an idea Tian Xia, alone, is formulating. It has never been brought to an official vote by the Administrative Council, let alone acted upon.

Too bad for the MESS then.

What is happening now is the logical endgame between one power bloc antagonizing a power bloc which relies on 1950s Eisenhowerian Massive Retalitation, thinking that nothing will ever happen, despite repeated pokings.

Shepnukistan still hasn't forgotten the economic embargo that the MESS imposed on Shepnukistan and Saddamistan; which you know, would lead to global thermonuclear war; since that would logically lead to a war to preserve the UAR's economy; and we all know how the UAR fights a war...

[Beowulf]

I hearby plan to take over the world. That's the meaning of Tian Xia. "All under heaven".

The above means nothing, since it never happened in game.

[RogueIce]

At worst it is an idea Tian Xia, alone, is formulating. It has never been brought to an official vote by the Administrative Council, let alone acted upon.

Too bad for the MESS then.

What is happening now is the logical endgame between one power bloc antagonizing a power bloc which relies on 1950s Eisenhowerian Massive Retalitation, thinking that nothing will ever happen, despite repeated pokings.

Shepnukistan still hasn't forgotten the economic embargo that the MESS imposed on Shepnukistan and Saddamistan; which you know, would lead to global thermonuclear war; since that would logically lead to a war to preserve the UAR's economy; and we all know how the UAR fights a war...

Wow you're full of shit. Or you just buy into the propoganda. You've antagonized pretty much everyone else from the start of the whole UAR thing.

And embargo? Please. We've tried multiple times to open up relations before. We just get ignored. Any "embargo" is purely your own handiwork because you simply ignore our overtures for relations.

[Raj Ahten]

Shep fuck you. You are not the victim here, so shut up with your bullshit that this is everyone else’s fault. YOU are the one who spread radiation all over the Central Sea with your missile test. YOU are the one who destroyed a city because you lost an airplane. YOU are the one who has consistently been giving the finger to the whole world with virtually every action you take.

You are either the stupidest motherfucker on Earth who doesn't see how irradiating other peoples countries and nuking cities will piss them off or you are deliberately angling for a war.

[K. A. Pital]

I wouldn't put your faith in doomsday salted bombs.

Neither would I, but it's just the nature of salted bombs and dispersal patterns. It's actually super-great we are on an archipelago. Wind currents in aquatories will spread the love.

The mathy for them always assumes near-optimal wind dispersal patterns

Shep, I have wind patters from Castle Bravo, and dispersal zones. Over 100 km in width, and over 500 in length for immediate fallout. And that's discounting the global fallout resulting from stratospheric poisoning. I understand what radioactive dispersal looks like, and what quantities of material I need. Cobalt's advantage is that it pulverizes and covers everything with a slight coat of radioactive dust.

And of course my priority targets would include not just cities or military bases, but freshwater rivers as well. Irradiated freshwater would result in a very rapid death for most humans in your, or any other nation.

which never happens in real life; and intensely radioactive isotopes have very short half-lives by their nature....

Intensity is not what my salted bombs are for. If you need intensity, you don't need salted bombs at all; ordinary ones would suffice. I need longetivity. I need a decay period of 5 years, which is what cobalt is for - making any shelter (unless you have ones which can autonomously supply people for 5 years) irrelevant.

[Shroom Man 777]

I say Shep's documented... un-funness should be punished by the economic collapse of Shepnukistan.

And we ignore this nuclear apocalypse by carrying on, as if nothing has happened?

Yes! THE SHUNNING!

[Beowulf]

I say Shep's documented... un-funness should be punished by the economic collapse of Shepnukistan.

And we ignore this nuclear apocalypse by carrying on, as if nothing has happened?

Yes! THE SHUNNING!

I vote that Q just makes the attack disappear, along with Shep.

[Shroom Man 777]

All in favor?

*raises hand*

All opposed?

[RogueIce]

I'm in favor of one of two things:

1) We let the attack proceed, but it doesn't work nearly as well as he'd hoped. Maybe a town with a population of 100,00 goes up, major cities get damaged because an incoming missile was downed from several miles out but initiated as an airburst (windows shattering, no catastrophic structual failures, no real major loss of life, etc.), some of our military assets get damaged or small units destroyed (I'd say no ships because they take awhile to build, but an air defense battery or two could get unlucky). Basically things of that nature, but nothing we wouldn't be able to move past in six months to a year militarily or economically.

By the same token, our counterstrike is horribly effective and basically eliminates Shepnukistan as anything resembling a military power. Duchies would laugh at their forces. His country is glassed. Game over.

2) Act of Q as Beowulf said.

Sea Skimmer can stick around or not. If he decides to follow up on Shep's attack he gets the hammer too (since playing off somebody else cheating his ass off is just as bad as cheating oneself). If he decided to sit this one out then he's more than welcome to go on playing the game. He's just out one ally.

Coiler since he has no nukes (as per the earlier agreement and our inspectors verify on a regular basis) or anything else of any real significance can stick around either way Skimmer plays it. Because really all he could do is impotently scream at a world that's basically going to abandon him and leave him on his own (if Skimmer goes bye bye) or he'll just be a vassal of Saddamistan if Skimmer decides to stick around.

Those're my thoughts on this.

EDIT: I am also in favoir, either way, of everybody just simply ignoring any game posts he makes from there on out. He's out of the game.

Because he's done this stunt before, tried to use OOC information for IU purposes, or worse yet RP somebody else (which this is basically a blending of, using OOC information and then RPing that the MESS had some actual timetable WHEN WE DO NOT) and I'm sick of it.

Toss his ass out of here and don't look back.

[MKSheppard]

So then, what the fuck is the point of doing a realistic STGOD if nothing bad can ever happen, because when a war is about to break out, everyone gets all waily and wants to pretend that it can't happen?

[Shroom Man 777]

I will back whatever dickish resolutions you guys will end up with

Coiler since he has no nukes (as per the earlier agreement and our inspectors verify on a regular basis) or anything else of any real significance can stick around either way Skimmer plays it. Because really all he could do is impotently scream at a world that's basically going to abandon him and leave him on his own (if Skimmer goes bye bye) or he'll just be a vassal of Saddamistan if Skimmer decides to stick around.

Those're my thoughts on this.

[RogueIce]

So then, what the fuck is the point of doing a realistic STGOD if nothing bad can ever happen, because when a war is about to break out, everyone gets all waily and wants to pretend that it can't happen?

We let you nuke TF-23. We let you hit that Diocese city. We let you do a lot of shit.

But this move is bullshit. Using OOC information to justify your attack? Horseshit Shep.

[MKSheppard]

1) We let the attack proceed, but it doesn't work nearly as well as he'd hoped.

Your proposition is so ridiculous it beggars belief. There are approximately 300 or so nuclear armed platforms now on the move, with about 2,000~ nuclear weapons on them and not one of them hits their target?

2) Act of Q as Beowulf said.

Considering that Q hasn't done anything since he moved us here *cough cough cough, 1st Global Crisis*, why would he do anything this time around?

[Shroom Man 777]

Technically, there's nothing stopping him from nuking anyone whenever he wants to.

Technically, his Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger CT should've made him end up as a third world hole.

[MKSheppard]

But this move is bullshit. Using OOC information to justify your attack? Horseshit Shep.

Yeah, because I'm so supposed to let my country get hit by a surprise attack when I'm away at the USAF museum in August? Yeah. Right. Sure.

You can go fuck yourself with a rusty blender.

[MKSheppard]

Technically, his Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger CT should've made him end up as a third world hole.

Actually, it's not a derisive CT -- I specifically asked Mike for it.

[K. A. Pital]

Fine. Actually I think we'll deal with it.

*makes calculations*

[RogueIce]

1) We let the attack proceed, but it doesn't work nearly as well as he'd hoped.

Your proposition is so ridiculous it beggars belief. There are approximately 300 or so nuclear armed platforms now on the move, with about 2,000~ nuclear weapons on them and not one of them hits their target?

2) Act of Q as Beowulf said.

Considering that Q hasn't done anything since he moved us here *cough cough cough, 1st Global Crisis*, why would he do anything this time around?

Easy. Because we said so and if the majority agrees, that's that.

If you're going to cheat your ass off (because you've never RPed somebody before and/or used OOC information in an IU context, right?) then fuck it, we'll do the same to you.

Fuck the retcon shit. We've been there and done that with you too many times before. I've had it.

Yeah, because I'm so supposed to let my country get hit by a surprise attack when I'm away at the USAF museum in August? Yeah. Right. Sure.

You can go fuck yourself with a rusty blender.

As shocking as this might be for you to read, I don't exactly follow your plans. I didn't know you'd be gone in August.

Which is utterly irrelevent anyway, since we are not cackling madly back in the Mess to nuke your ass come August. It's been discussed and is at most (so far as the majority of us are concerned) a possible course of action at some point in the future, maybe.

Beowulf speculating in a chat does not equal our overall game-playing strategy, no matter how many times you stamp your feet and declare it to be so.