Metal Gear Solid 4 (With spoilers!)

[MKSheppard]

That's right, the system can actually be used to shut down every military VEHICLE in the world too.

THE WAR ECONOMY IS COMING TO A HALT

See; this is why Kojima is full of FAIL.

MGS1 worked because the wank was kept to a minimum; and the plot was relatively believable (about as believable as your typical action movie) and the villains were also relatively believable -- in a sort of Action movie style -- e.g. look at Vulcan Raven.

MGS2 was when it moved into hard core anime style over substance fallacies; yes; the mighty NANOMACHINES allow Vamp to survive bullet holes in the forehead, and swim in "dead water"!

[Stark]

But it is hilarious watching you go from simple snipe to suddenly "I R SRYS STARK!"

You're such a shitstirrer; encouraging you to make posts with this in mind is profitable from any perspective. The plot of MGS4 is totally absurd, and it doesn't require any particular attitude to be taken aback by someone seeming to treat it as sensible or ordinary. MAINSTREAM MEDIA CONTROLS POPULATION LUL. Clearly Hideo is a prophet.

Oh no, clearly only Stark hating everything is an explanation for this, and not MGS4s internationally lampooned over-the-top conspiracy grab-bag of a plot. Shep, Hawks, stop laughing at the nerd pillar, someone got offended!

[Sephirius]

That's right, the system can actually be used to shut down every military VEHICLE in the world too.

THE WAR ECONOMY IS COMING TO A HALT

See; this is why Kojima is full of FAIL.

MGS1 worked because the wank was kept to a minimum; and the plot was relatively believable (about as believable as your typical action movie) and the villains were also relatively believable -- in a sort of Action movie style -- e.g. look at Vulcan Raven.

MGS2 was when it moved into hard core anime style over substance fallacies; yes; the mighty NANOMACHINES allow Vamp to survive bullet holes in the forehead, and swim in "dead water"!

Nanomachines had nothing to do with the running on walls and water stuff.

[Vympel]

When I typed "Admiral Lazarev" into Wikipedia, I found an article on the Sverdlov class cruiser, which states that the Admiral Lazarev was scrapped in 1986, long before MGS4 begins. Besides, Kojima's decision to use the Missouri was probably due to her role in WWII (Japanese representatives signed the official instrument for surrender aboard that battleship).

No, I meant the Kirov-class nuclear powered battle cruiser, which belongs to the Pacific Fleet (and has been sitting in reserve for years, rusting).

[Sidewinder]

When I typed "Admiral Lazarev" into Wikipedia, I found an article on the Sverdlov class cruiser, which states that the Admiral Lazarev was scrapped in 1986, long before MGS4 begins.
<snip>

No, I meant the Kirov-class nuclear powered battle cruiser, which belongs to the Pacific Fleet (and has been sitting in reserve for years, rusting).

Ah. I'm assuming you're referring to Mikhail Petrovich Lazarev's namesake? Why was she chosen? Because Lazarev was an explorer? (I know of two ships named "Discovery" in the 'Metal Gear Solid' series.) Because he fought during Napoleon's invasion of Russia and the Greek War of Independence?

[Shroom Man 777]

I need to play this game. Clearly, it is awesome.

Just for the firefight in which the background music is replaced by the sound of Johnny Sasaki's ailing vomit.



(I am 100% serious, if anyone's wondering.)

[DoomTrain]

They spell it out in one of the cutscenes. The tanker was empty save for RAY, but either Ocelot or Solidus (I can't remember which) mention right after the first tanker sank they sank another tanker right on top of it to aid the myth.

Yes, and nobody will notice a second tanker sinking, in one of the busiest harbors in the world

Jesus christ, was Kojima listening to 9/11 conspiracy truther theories when he came up with the plot for MGS2?

It was far from shore in the middle of the night in a thick fog. Look I'm not saying that it's not an incredibly stupid plan that requires the exact right circumstances, but who would listen to those few people who say it was a conspiracy. Most people are too lazy or don't care enough to do their own investigation and will take whatever the government says at face value.

EDIT: Didn't think of other ships going through the harbor at the time. While this would prove difficult to keep it hidden, keep in mind that the Marines would launched the ship at the time with the least traffic in order to have as few as possible people actually seeing the tanker.

[Vympel]

Ah. I'm assuming you're referring to Mikhail Petrovich Lazarev's namesake? Why was she chosen? Because Lazarev was an explorer? (I know of two ships named "Discovery" in the 'Metal Gear Solid' series.) Because he fought during Napoleon's invasion of Russia and the Greek War of Independence?

No, just because she's based with the Pacific Fleet, and so would get to Shadow Moses quickest.

Just finished the game - I had hoped that the "Revolver Ocelot gets possessed by Liquid's arm" thing would be erased thanks to the "Ocelot is Liquid's doppleganger" twist, but unfortunately, it appears that it really did possess Ocelot, which is why he replaced it with a cybernetic implant and then underwent all that shit to convince himself he was Liquid.

Jesus Christ MGS is barmy. That said, I loved the final fight sequence (even though Liquid Ocelot was fucking hard compared to Liquid and Ocelot) - the Screaming Mantis fight was piss easy though. I should've taken the time to pick up the Sorrow doll, but I just wanted the fight over fast.

[Edward Yee]

12) The weapons available in the game are just fantastic. I actually want to play through the game again just to experiment with some different guns, especially in Act I.

The PSS was definitely a fave -- I love every time it makes an appearance.

Just played it today on Liquid Easy, I'm between Drebin/Rat Patrol (closer to the latter) in terms of progress... does anyone know if you get a "friendliness" bonus around certain troops for carrying their weapon? See, I've killed both Praying Mantis PMCs and Middle Eastern rebels... albeit far more PMCs, and I'm carrying the AK-102; which of these two factors is making the rebels like me more? (As I had at least one Alert situation from a rebel spotting me, before I went on this PMC killing spree.)

P.S. At least on Liquid Easy, there is something divine about Old Snake laying supine, on his back, letting Praying Mantis PMC personnel walk around the corner right into the path of his AK-102... goddamn that was a lot of Drebin Points.

EDIT: MKSheppard, is the whole nanotech thing extending to weapons and "state armies" that much worse than, say, the basic plot of Army of Two where the plot is for SSC to replace the US military? (Considering that Otacon for example manages to procure "decent" non-RFID weapons for Snake before the meeting with Drebin, which I take to mean that there's still non-RFID weapons out there anyway, while Drebin's deal is in both RFID weapons [state armies and PMCs] and quality non-RFID weapons [his other clients].)

[Sidewinder]

Regarding the idea of equipping a gun with a fingerprint scanner or other device to restrict its use: one reason police officers are reluctant to use such weapons is that, while it'll prevent a criminal from seizing their weapons and using it against them, it also prevents police officers whose guns have jammed from using those of their comrades. This also means Special Forces operators can't use these weapons, as they often need to recruit and train people outside of their military branch of service as allies, e.g., US Army Special Forces operators recruiting Kurdish guerillas as allies in their effort to overthrow Saddam Hussein, or recruiting members of the Northern Alliance in their effort to overthrow the Taliban; if these new allies need weapons, but the operators learn they will NOT be resupplied within a reasonable timeframe and are considering handing spare weapons to these allies...

Another problem is that such devices CAN be tricked ('Mythbusters' demonstrated that you can deceive a fingerprint scanner with a printout of an authorized person's fingerprint, although the printout must be of VERY HIGH quality). Also, some technical publications note that unless the weapon is electronically fired (the primer needs an electric charge to ignite), the device can be partially dismantled or destroyed to restore the gun to "anyone can shoot it" status.

[Edward Yee]

Which'd make it hilarious if that was the way that Drebin actually "laundered" the guns and he was just feeding Old Snake a line of bullshit.

[Vympel]

Some questions about Drebin 893 are answered at the end. If you want spoilers I can give them now.

Anyway, I got the "Eagle" rank when I finished the game too. A lot of headshots. The P-90 and headshots are a really efficient way to kill the FROG troops. Lots of ammunition, pretty good performance.

However, a really good way to kill the FROG troops that show up just before you fight Laughing Octopus (on Solid Normal, anyway) is to just lie prone and pull out either a PKM or M60E4 - they'll walk right into it and you can slaughter each group wholesale before they have a chance to shoot back.

Just played it today on Liquid Easy,

Why would you play it on Liquid Easy? On Solid Normal it's quite easy, the only tough boss fight is at the end, and that's purely a matter of practice.

[Edward Yee]

Some questions about Drebin 893 are answered at the end. If you want spoilers I can give them now.

Nah, I know re: him, but no need to spoil for others.

However, a really good way to kill the FROG troops that show up just before you fight Laughing Octopus (on Solid Normal, anyway) is to just lie prone and pull out either a PKM or M60E4 - they'll walk right into it and you can slaughter each group wholesale before they have a chance to shoot back.

Sounds like what I did with the Praying Mantis troops at that corner back there.

Why would you play it on Liquid Easy? On Solid Normal it's quite easy, the only tough boss fight is at the end, and that's purely a matter of practice.

My assumption was "more ammo." Unfortunately, this did not net me the infinite-ammo tranquilizer that Yahtzee bitched about.

[Setzer]

Regarding the idea of equipping a gun with a fingerprint scanner or other device to restrict its use: one reason police officers are reluctant to use such weapons is that, while it'll prevent a criminal from seizing their weapons and using it against them, it also prevents police officers whose guns have jammed from using those of their comrades. <snip>

Well, in the case of police, couldn't they have DNA scans for the entire department? Or at least, everyone out patrolling?

[Sidewinder]

Well, in the case of police, couldn't they have DNA scans for the entire department? Or at least, everyone out patrolling?

With the technology we have NOW, it'll take a week to do a DNA scan. Besides, equipping EVERY SINGLE GUN in a major police department with a fingerprint or DNA scanner will be prohibitively expensive. And what if a cop can't grip his weapon in a way that lets it can scan his fingerprints or whatever, because he's a rookie and is shivering during his first gunfight, wearing gloves because it's cold, his dominant hand is wounded and he must use the other, etc.?

The smart gun has been criticized by both the gun-rights and gun-control groups. One argument is concerning the use of technology with little testing in the field in a machine where a delay or malfunction of chips could cost lives rather than save them. This issue is such a concern that the New Jersey law on smart guns exempts police departments from having to buy them. Which defeats the purpose of law enforcement officers using them in the first place. Smart guns show a lack of reliability, they do not always identify and allow the authorized user, the best examples show a successful performance only 80% of the time.

Moreover the National Rifle Association (NRA) and dozens of other gun-rights groups oppose any law - like the one intended to be passed eventually by New Jersey state - that mandates the sale of only such smart firearms instead of leaving the choice to the buyer. Firearms experts note that the biometrics factors are subject to change due to owner fatigue, aging, illness, injury and failure to place the fingers in the same exact place each time the pistol is held.

Some gun control groups, such as the Violence Policy Center, are concerned that it might increase gun sales, given the newfound sense of security. But given the increased cost of a "smart gun" a sudden surge in gun ownership is unlikely. Other gun control groups and individuals are more interested in "no guns" than "smart guns".

[Andrew_Fireborn]

The way I interpreted the nano-wank was a specific ID is radiated (probably in radio frequency) that was received by a small computer in the gun controlling the firing and such.

Not that it matters much, since it's primarily their excuse for not being able to use the enemies weapons in prior games, and is all of three seconds of inconvenient menu shuffling in this game.

The rest of the SOP system is really just over the top nano-wank with what would have to be high levels of MMI not present anywhere else in the series really... The truly amusing part of which, is that it adds next to nothing to the story aside from a scene early on with Rat Patrol, and later Ocelot's grandstanding scene...

[Edward Yee]

Was that RFID thing, or at least the nanos, included in the story in MGS1-2? And what's MMI?

[Andrew_Fireborn]

Was that RFID thing, or at least the nanos, included in the story in MGS1-2? And what's MMI?

Mind-Machine Interface. It's possible, with our level of technology. But the stuff they claim the Patriot system does is well above our understanding of human physiology.

I seem to recall a couple of codec calls in the second one about weaponry... but eh, it may or may not be. Considering Foxdie was developed with nanotechnology, it's entirely possible that they had an earlier version in existance during Shadow Moses.

[Edward Yee]

Thanks for the explanations.

By the way, my impromptu take on the game after 3 hours of play: 75% out of 100% for the gameplay alone, with the remainder of the score being subjective due to character and story. (For example, I didn't find the graphics that awesome, but some of that 3 hours was from cutscenes -- some I skipped, but Snake meeting Col. Campbell and Drebin, I sat through both all the way.)