SD.net's World OOC/Discussion thread MK V

[MKSheppard]

WHORES WHORES WHORES WHORES WHORES WHORES WHORES

[phongn]

Wilkonia might be saved due to shielding from the Bear Republic's central mountain range.

[Raj Ahten]

Just to decided to make the post war period more horrible . All those ex soldiers from nuked countries operating in Libertopia and elsewhere would want their revenge. :cues Mad Max music:

[MKSheppard]

You mean aside from having enough bombers to do an adequate job in the face of defense?

Overall maximum Nukistani bomber high was 280 bombers during the convoy crisis. Four groups were cut down. ( 4 x 35 = 140), and 48 were lost to the Republic of Nukistan; leaving me with 92 RB-1s and B-1s.

Optimal loadout for a RB-1/B-1 was:

1 x 50 MT city buster in forward weapons bay
8 x SRAMs in aft weapons bays (either 1 MT or 225 kt ones)
8 x SRAMs hung on external hardpoints (either 1 MT or 225 kt ones)

About 75% of bombers had this loadout due to limitations on the numbers of nukes built; but SAC was overall better armed than during the Convoy Crisis; due to cuts in force numbers and the huge amount of nukes built since then by Shepnukistan.

Shepnukistan had two Strategic Fighter Groups of 70 F-22s, for a total of 140 devoted to SAC for the defense penetration mission; their mission was to escort the bombers along the way and help deal with enemy fighters; while the RB-1s dealt with the air defenses -- and I had enough tankers to support the SFGs for long range operations.

Secondly, the bombers cruised in to their targets at around Mach 2~ at altitudes above 55,000 feet; and had working full ECM fits, making them much harder to lock onto -- they had the working version of what was proposed for the B-70A back in the fifties -- an integrated system capable of noise jamming, deception jamming 30 threat radars operating simultaneously, and track-breaking 10 radars simultaneously in a spectrum from 50 to 16,000 MHz.

Realistically, only a very few missile systems have the range and speed to engage such targets in that flight regime, and there weren't a lot of them around in SDN World.

In short, you guys read my bomber force; assumed that I had just built fast, low altitude penetrating bombers (B-1Bs), instead of bombers coming in high and fast (B-1Cs) behind a screen of Strategic Fighter Groups (F-22s) and with specialized wild-weasel bombers (RB-1s) in support.

EDIT: Also, my Strategy was very much like the USAF's in the cold war -- rather than trying to destroy every single radar and SAM site; I simply picked and drew arbitrary "corridors" along your countries and blew away every SAM site and radar in that corridor; which was at least about 60-70 miles wide, and then flew my bombers in through that corridor; and began to attack your weakly defended inner crust. If it was good enough for the USSR, it was good enough for you guys.

EDIT II: This is also why I didn't invest much in an IADS; because investing in an IADS designed to defeat the kind of attack I was planning for would have been enormously expensive; Look at the IRT; they had the kind of IADS everyone dreams of; but they didn't have F-22s or CVBGs, due to the cost of the IADS....

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

So was I attacked in the end? You know, I have only so much of an economy and resources to save anyone. The only reason why I never got around to post my counterstrike was because ... the whole game was going to get reboot anyway, and indulging in a blaze of glory just doesn't strike me as a great idea, if not a waste of time.

[K. A. Pital]

Been looking at a map, and it's a good chance that this is the area of land largely rendered useless for five years, if we assume winds blow from west to east on SDN World

Yes, pretty much so. Well, Wilkonia and the rest have at least a month or so to prepare. A massive exodus is inevitable.

Oh, and the IRT... let's say not many nations would accept refugees from there

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I certainly wouldn't, since the whole lot of them are from the same company responsible for the attacks. They would be lucky not to be tried for crimes against humanity.

[K. A. Pital]

Oh, and about Byzantium and me - Fingolfin proposed nuking Shep since attacking the MESS was a clear casus belli against all MESS nations, even with selective targeting, via PMs.

We decided that Shep has grown tiresome in his attempts to get a nuclear war, and besides as part of the Tipartite treaty that creates the Slavic National Confederacy, we attacked him with the goal of massive retaliation to the point of extermination.

[phongn]

Oh, and the IRT... let's say not many nations would accept refugees from there

The MESS nations might, considering we've generally been friendly with them, but I'm generally expecting catastrophic losses in areas unshielded by the mountains and other geography; as a nation we're pretty much finished by the massive Co-60 fallout.

Unfortunately, so is the Bear Republic's heavily populated north. Also, Stas, your map was apparently wrong? I attacked his north in the understanding that's where his military was stacked.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Oh, and about Byzantium and me - Fingolfin proposed nuking Shep since attacking the MESS was a clear casus belli against all MESS nations, even with selective targeting, via PMs.

We decided that Shep has grown tiresome in his attempts to get a nuclear war, and besides as part of the Tipartite treaty that creates the Slavic National Confederacy, we attacked him with the goal of massive retaliation to the point of extermination.

Yeah, so Shep if you want to lob a few nukes at me, be my guest. Of course I'm more than ready to prep and fire off a hundred over hypersonic missiles with nukes and EMP.

Good luck also getting past my navy and SAMs that surround each city or any place. I piled plenty of defences to intercept missiles here and there.

[phongn]

Yeah, so Shep if you want to lob a few nukes at me, be my guest. Of course I'm more than ready to prep and fire off a hundred over hypersonic missiles with nukes and EMP.

Well, by this point you're just bouncing the rubble. EMP isn't really that big a concern either.

Good luck also getting past my navy and SAMs that surround each city or any place. I piled plenty of defences to intercept missiles here and there.

The UAR rolls back air defenses by nuking them (for that matter, so does the IRT); it'd be a pretty nasty battle. Plus, if he takes down your critical command-and-control nodes, it doesn't matter how many missiles you have.

[K. A. Pital]

Also, Stas, your map was apparently wrong?

In the North I have concentrated the FUN-controlled (probabl an international contingent) SCUD massive retaliation launch platforms. However, the BR military itself is not concentrated in the North for all I know (do they even have a military)?

Well, by this point you're just bouncing the rubble. EMP isn't really that big a concern either.

He's speaking about nuclear-tipped SAMs. That's serious shit. They can, with sufficient saturation, disrupt the winged missiles flight even without a hit.

[MKSheppard]

I wonder if we lasted longer than Stuart's think-tank groups in this RPG before we got up to uncontrollable war.

[Beowulf]

Tian Xia had no weakly defended inner crumb for you to blast a hole into. All there is is the crust.

You had 140 some F-22s, but divided up into the 6 strike groups necessary, Tian Xia has an advantage in just the first wave it manage to get up of alert fighters. The second wave which would have just barely manage to get up would have been able to completely maul you. And I wasn't the only one operating F-22s or the slightly less stealth F-35.

You have an average of 15 bombers per major MESS nation. It doesn't take losing a very large absolute number to end up in the position where your bombers may have made it through, but you've lost most of them in the process, so your attrited strike doesn't have enough left to take out the targets in the nations you want.

It doesn't matter much that you have fighters protecting your bombers if the bombers can still be shot down by a F-22 horde. Said F-22 horde is capable of much longer distance shots than your own horde, since we invested in longer range AAMs, and you never bought any. Said F-22 horde can detect your bombers before your defending fighters can detect back. Deception jamming only works if you can detect the radar, and LPI radars are designed to avoid precisely that. Ditto track breaking.

Your planners must still make a tradeoff between hitting a bunch of less strongly defended targets, or hitting a country defended by an air force that's majority made up of high-altitude, high speed fighters, where it's not made up of bombers. And which is further protected by a net of air defense, which really serve mostly to cue SRAM analogs onto your incoming bombers. You may be able to deception jam, but can you manage to do it far enough to cause a 500 kT warhead to fail to come close? And here's the thing: the only launch warning you get is from the infrared (and radar) track of the missile itself. Well, those nukes, and THAAD missiles modified to hit aircraft targets. Targets going faster than M2. Which are also IR seeking, so radar jamming won't work, and missiles these days are far too smart to be foiled by flares.

I knew your penchant for high and fast Shep.

[phongn]

In the North I have concentrated the FUN-controlled (probabl an international contingent) SCUD massive retaliation launch platforms. However, the BR military itself is not concentrated in the North for all I know (do they even have a military)?

Oh, well, I'd be plastering it then. He does have a military, but only a sketch of its disposition. He has numerical superiority, which I'm attempting to counter with nuclear use. Then I'll have to consider if I want to risk trying to punch through his airspace to reach launch positions against the RT.

[K. A. Pital]

Kinda late if you asked me, Shep and Raj forwarded the wrecked game 40 years FW.

You can pen it as a military history documentary or somethjing (IRT: Where Greed May Lead", say )

[phongn]

Kinda late if you asked me, Shep and Raj forwarded the wrecked game 40 years FW.

Yea, I saw. Also, what do you think of my ASAT launches? Towards the end I may well have started to use ABM assets against them, since they'd never be used again.

You can pen it as a military history documentary or somethjing (IRT: Where Greed May Lead", say )

I might do something like that, though I did mention there were some select very-long-term vaults constructed and occupied while almost everyone except on the east died out. Could be quite a bit of interesting friction there - Vault City people, the survivors, the colonizers.

It certainly won't resemble the old IRT, that's for sure. There's also the interesting question about what happened to all of my personnel in Alexandria (I'm expecting the Diocese and Sultanate to get hit hard by some Saddamistan attacks)

[K. A. Pital]

Libertia is back to almost primeval violence. The Diocese was used as emplacement for SCUD Missiles targeted against Saddamistan.

Also, what do you think of my ASAT launches?

Why would you use ASAT or ABM assets? No specific attacks against IRT were made IIRC. You just happened to be in the fallout plume.

EDIT: LOOK HERE:

[Setzer]

And the Vedra Republic dies as it lived: With hardly anyone noticing.

Admittedly, the isolationist stance was caused by the impossibility of communication with my ship's connection out to sea.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

The UAR rolls back air defenses by nuking them (for that matter, so does the IRT); it'd be a pretty nasty battle. Plus, if he takes down your critical command-and-control nodes, it doesn't matter how many missiles you have.

Well, good luck trying to find them. A lot of them are buried in hardened areas underground. I had some of my missiles buried under ground as well, with back up radars a few other things. You'd have to do thorough nuking.

Also, the stratellite should be able to pick up incoming fighters.

[MKSheppard]

Shouldn't the fallout plume from Saddamistan be a lot longer and reach as far east as some parts of Tian Xia, as well as cover most of TMCK?

I'd also add a 5 or 8 more million dead to Canissia and to Shinra; because they're right next to Shepnukistan/Saddamistan, and can be hit by a ton of assets in the war in minutes, with very little warning time...

[K. A. Pital]

Shouldn't the fallout plume from Saddamistan be a lot longer and reach as far east as some parts of Tian Xia, as well as cover most of TMCK?

I figured that the ocean has circular winds around the archipelago, meaning the wind from Saddam would go in the opposite direction. Libertia is pretty much over, as for Adrian, I forgot his political alliance right now so I decided to skip that.

Zoria was exterminated by Saddam's overwhelming retaliation strike with biological and chemical area denial weapons.

I'd also add a 5 or 8 more million dead to Canissia and to Shinra; because they're right next to Shepnukistan/Saddamistan, and can be hit by a ton of assets in the war in minutes, with very little warning time...

Yeah, I agree, they are the closest targets with the smallest EW time.

[MKSheppard]

You might want to add random black spots, representing areas that were hit by unusually heavy areas of groundbursted weapons repeatedly; e.g. something like the Ruhr Valley of TBO, albeit on a much more localized scale...

Also, add a little more death to the map; I did after all release Super Saddam Anthrax and Super Saddam Smallbola in stratospheric balloons; I'm sure there were quite a few deaths from that in the immediate post-attack period.

Saddamistan's war plan was to:

1.) Carpet Shinra in a carpet of thermo-chemo-bio death.

2.) Set off nuclear mines and torpedoes with 150 MT yields in random major ports and coastal cities.

3.) Launch 6,000+ cruise missiles with biological warheads at everyone (6 TLAMs built every day for about 4 years by Saddamistani Factories).

[TimothyC]

I survived!

[Zor]

From the day that Turd of a Nation Saddamistan was plopped a few dozen klicks south of my nation, i knew it was going to be trouble.

Zor