Defiants vs. an ISD

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-01-26 08:17pm

seanrobertson wrote: I remember back in the old days, like late '98 or so, I rated an ISD's
shield strength by how long they were in the asteroid field during
TESB and came up with around 6E19J, IIRC. The Defiant
wing had its 128 megaton quantum torpedoes with a total inventory
of about 100/ship. In those circumstances three DCSs could
*maybe* topple an ISD before they themselves were toasted.

Heh, yeah, I kind of liked the way it was back then... plenty of heated (but enjoyable) debates, etc...

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2003-01-26 08:18pm

Using the 40TT shield figure for the ISD and the 128 Qtorp fig it would take 3125 Defiants to take down the ISD's shields.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-01-26 08:28pm

Are you kidding? The Defiant kicks butt against Star Trek Ships but it is still just a glorified fighter. At 100 meters it is closely comparable to a Correlian Corvette in size. Since a Star Destroyer can hit a Correlian Corvette easily then it would not have a problem with just 5 defiants. I don't think that the Star Destroyer would even need to launch its Ties.

Triple post fixed. ~Crayz9000

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2003-01-26 08:42pm

Just to let you know IRC the least it takes based on modern caculations is 1000 Ships minium and assuming terrible accurasy on the part of the ISD and that dead ships keep firing

The best ship IMO for assult a Star Destroyer is the Akira Class, Torps are ST only chance of taking down ISDs and the Akira is the only one who can put them out... FAST

CmdrWilkens · Post by **CmdrWilkens** » 2003-01-27 12:11am

Mr Bean wrote:Just to let you know IRC the least it takes based on modern caculations is 1000 Ships minium and assuming terrible accurasy on the part of the ISD and that dead ships keep firing

The best ship IMO for assult a Star Destroyer is the Akira Class, Torps are ST only chance of taking down ISDs and the Akira is the only one who can put them out... FAST

They're also a lot more vulnerable and it would still take numbers virtually unheard of in ST.

CmdrWilkens · Post by **CmdrWilkens** » 2003-01-27 12:14am

Dagnab thing wouldn't post properly if a mod could please remove that stupid looking quad post, and this one, I'd appreciate it.

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-01-27 12:21am

CmdrWilkens wrote:Dagnab thing wouldn't post properly if a mod could please remove that stupid looking quad post, and this one, I'd appreciate it.

Done.

Seems a lot of people are still having trouble due to this worm...

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-01-27 12:44am

Even taking it the way a torp would react with threshold based shielding, they can't damage the the ISD because of the shield (I guess the closest term would be reserve) is still, what 480 TT by Bean's work?

I'm playing around with different interpretation os ICS which indicate that it is actually very inline with previous numbers and alot lower then some assume, but even then Treks got nothing.

And Tie Bombers, Assualt Gunboats, Skiprays, or Scimitar Bombers would make hash of the Trek fleet. ANd note that I use far higher numbers then most in that regard.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-01-27 12:49am

NF, are you trying to find out the size of a fleet needed here or what? Because right now it reminds me of a guy who kept upping the Ante.

"1 ISD vs ! borg cube"
"ISD wins"
"1 ISD vs 10 borg cubes"
"ISD wins"
"1 ISD vs 20 borg cubes"
etcetcetc

Hitch Hiker · Post by **Hitch Hiker** » 2003-01-27 02:08pm

to follow on that

1, SSD vs 40 galaxy classes
ssd wins

1, SSD vs 40 Birg cubes
SSD wins
etcetcetc

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2003-01-27 02:40pm

(I guess the closest term would be reserve) is still, what 480 TT by Bean's work?

Mostly Likley paints it at about that, but absoulte low end(Which I tend to use just for fun) paints it at 14.7 or so Teratons per shielding section of which their are SIX, Venteral, Dorsal, For, Aft, Port, Starboard

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-01-27 05:13pm

Keevan_Colton wrote:Allow me to add the following example....

bug ------> truck
bug ----> truck
bug --> truck
truck.

you forgot:

bug*>SPLAT<*truck

damn dood analogy though

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-01-27 06:22pm

CmdrWilkens wrote:
Mr Bean wrote:Just to let you know IRC the least it takes based on modern caculations is 1000 Ships minium and assuming terrible accurasy on the part of the ISD and that dead ships keep firing

The best ship IMO for assult a Star Destroyer is the Akira Class, Torps are ST only chance of taking down ISDs and the Akira is the only one who can put them out... FAST
They're also a lot more vulnerable and it would still take numbers virtually unheard of in ST.

And that is to take out ONE count them ONE, ISD there are at least 24999 more where that came from

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-01-27 06:34pm

Mr Bean wrote:
(I guess the closest term would be reserve) is still, what 480 TT by Bean's work?
Mostly Likley paints it at about that, but absoulte low end(Which I tend to use just for fun) paints it at 14.7 or so Teratons per shielding section of which their are SIX, Venteral, Dorsal, For, Aft, Port, Starboard

Actually, I believe you can treat it as an overall figure and not divide it up into sections with each one having a fraction of the total power because it seems that all the shield sections/emitters are different from the energy dissipation system itself, the shield emitters send the absorbed energy to the dissipation system, from both ray and particle shields, hence is why they only have one rating even though there are many shield sections and two types of shields.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-01-27 06:41pm

NF_Utvol wrote:Would a group of Defiant class starships be able to take on an ISD? It is shown that the DCS is highly maneverable, and it has been stated that turbolasers have problems targeting fast moving maneuverable craft. Would this give a group of, say, 5 Defiants any type of advantage over the ISD?

For the sake of argument, we will say that all ships have equal command capabilities.

No chance. ISD's routinely missed X-Wing profile shots at a range similar to the observed combat ranges of Defiant class starships by less than 5 meters. The difference is that an X-Wing is MUCH smaller than a Defiant. Even if the ISD were completely unable to hit the Defiants, the Defiants would have insufficient firepower to punch through the ship's shields.

Brian Young · Post by **Brian Young** » 2003-01-27 06:46pm

Remember that Acclamators are not even on the same page as ISDs when talking about classification.
Acclamators are troop transports. ISDs are actual destroyers. They are much more powerful than Acclamators, probably an order of magnitude.
You guys are using Acclamator figures to combat 5 Defiants. Realistically, 5 Acclamators might not stand up to an ISD!
The 200 gigaton guns on Acclamators are as large as the second-largest guns on ISDs - the big quad guns in the trenches. The largest ISD guns are more likely in the teraton range. And the shields are much more resilient too.

As far as the number of Trek ships it takes, I see nothing that indicates the entire Federation Starfleet could actually destroy an ISD.

The only way for the Federation to win any conceivable scenario against the Empire is to pit totally different classes of vessel against each other. For example, the Enterprise-E may be able to defeat a Delta-7 "Aethersprite" starfighter (Kenobi's fighter) in combat. That is, if the fighter pilot actually intends to engage the larger ship, in whatever unlikely scenario (he would more likely just fly right by on his way to the real mission, never presenting the Enterprise a good shot).

It may actually be a fair fight pitting Voyager against a couple Republic gunships at a few hundred feet altitude.

Nothing in the Federation's arsenal can handle anything as powerful as Slave1. ISDs crap bigger than Slave1. Literally (TESB).

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2003-01-27 06:47pm

Actually, I believe you can treat it as an overall figure and not divide it up into sections with each one having a fraction of the total power because it seems that all the shield sections/emitters are different from the energy dissipation system itself, the shield emitters send the absorbed energy to the dissipation system, from both ray and particle shields, hence is why they only have one rating even though there are many shield sections and two types of shields.

No no... I MEAN 14.7 Teratons per shield section and it was caculated thanks to the Isard Revenge Fight

All ships normaly run with all sections being equal power and it seemed to be the case during the fight

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-27 07:00pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Defiant get's its ass kicked. The Q-torps are maxed at 128 megatons, and Slave I's missile was 191 megatons. The Defiant's weapons are all fixed-axis emplacements, and the X-Wings are more manuverable. They simply stay in the Defiant's six and fire a salvo of torpedoes.

Incorrect. The Defiant class has three beam phasers giving it 100% coverage just a few meters beyond the hull of the ship.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-27 07:03pm

Mr Bean wrote:Just to let you know IRC the least it takes based on modern caculations is 1000 Ships minium and assuming terrible accurasy on the part of the ISD and that dead ships keep firing

The best ship IMO for assult a Star Destroyer is the Akira Class, Torps are ST only chance of taking down ISDs and the Akira is the only one who can put them out... FAST

Actually a Warpod Nebula is a better choice. The Akira has 15 launchers, but at least 6 of them are rear facing launchers. So thats only 9 forward launchers, and they are all "small" launchers. The Warpod Nebula has 10 launchers. Two of them are identical to the ones on the GCS so they theoretically can pump out 10 torpedoes appeace. Then the other eight are the same as the Akira. Thats 3 torpedoes per launcher. Total of 44 torpedoes in aproximately 3 seconds.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-01-27 07:04pm

Alyeska wrote:Incorrect. The Defiant class has three beam phasers giving it 100% coverage just a few meters beyond the hull of the ship.

They must be piddly weak, seeing as we (I don't remmber anyways) never see 'em use it.

Although I'd bet it could still kill a TIE, MAYBE a X-Wing...

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-01-27 07:08pm

Mr Bean wrote:No no... I MEAN 14.7 Teratons per shield section and it was caculated thanks to the Isard Revenge Fight

Then you say the overall shield strenght is 14.7TT?

All ships normaly run with all sections being equal power and it seemed to be the case during the fight

All sections are connected to the same energy dissipation central, which is the core of the shield systems, so that means that one shield section can take 88TT or all sections at once can take 14.7TT, or two shield sections can take 44TT simoultaneously

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-01-27 09:20pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:
Alyeska wrote:Incorrect. The Defiant class has three beam phasers giving it 100% coverage just a few meters beyond the hull of the ship.
They must be piddly weak, seeing as we (I don't remmber anyways) never see 'em use it.

Although I'd bet it could still kill a TIE, MAYBE a X-Wing...

Actually those three beam phasers are not "piddly weak" they were used effectively against a Klingon Negvar cruiser (DS9 Shattered Mirror), and delivered some of the final blows to a Romulan Warbird(VGR Message in a Bottle).

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-01-27 11:02pm

I crunched some numbers today using very low end figs and a differnet interpretation of ICS. Came out to 103 GCS firing all their torps at once to down the shields, assuming 100% absorption of energy from 64 MT torps.

I'd post the work, but I left it at school.

CmdrWilkens · Post by **CmdrWilkens** » 2003-01-27 11:27pm

Alyeska wrote:
Mr Bean wrote:Just to let you know IRC the least it takes based on modern caculations is 1000 Ships minium and assuming terrible accurasy on the part of the ISD and that dead ships keep firing

The best ship IMO for assult a Star Destroyer is the Akira Class, Torps are ST only chance of taking down ISDs and the Akira is the only one who can put them out... FAST
Actually a Warpod Nebula is a better choice. The Akira has 15 launchers, but at least 6 of them are rear facing launchers. So thats only 9 forward launchers, and they are all "small" launchers. The Warpod Nebula has 10 launchers. Two of them are identical to the ones on the GCS so they theoretically can pump out 10 torpedoes appeace. Then the other eight are the same as the Akira. Thats 3 torpedoes per launcher. Total of 44 torpedoes in aproximately 3 seconds.

Even assuming they all get through you still need dozens of Akiras firing repeatedly and not dying for minutes unto hours.

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2003-01-28 07:30am

Mr Bean wrote:
Actually, I believe you can treat it as an overall figure and not divide it up into sections with each one having a fraction of the total power because it seems that all the shield sections/emitters are different from the energy dissipation system itself, the shield emitters send the absorbed energy to the dissipation system, from both ray and particle shields, hence is why they only have one rating even though there are many shield sections and two types of shields.
No no... I MEAN 14.7 Teratons per shield section and it was caculated thanks to the Isard Revenge Fight

All ships normaly run with all sections being equal power and it seemed to be the case during the fight

Uhm how did you get that low number? IIRC it was 5 broadsides that it took to down the shields of the Direption or was it the Moonshadow,and using 1 TT figure for the HTLs and assuming they used only HTLs in that fight, then one shield section could withstand 160TT, even by using the mere 200GT figure for HTLs the shield section would still be 32 Teratons.

Offcourse if it was less than 5 broadsides then im wrong :p

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Defiants vs. an ISD

Group of 5 Defiants vs. a single ISD

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