SGA 5x01 "Search & Rescue" Talkback

[JME2]

Carter launches a rescue operation for several victims of a huge off-world explosion, but the rescue party must also combat Michael and his army who also wish to recover the survivors.

***

Didn't see a thread open for SGA's 5th season opener, so here we go.

Things I liked:

* Ford's cameo

* Shep's Duff Beer test

* McKay as midwife was fucking hysterical.

* Set-up for the next DTV film.

Carter's removal though feels forced, much more than than Ford's departure or even Weir's departure. Pacing felt a tad off and the writing wasn't as tight as it could have been. Overall, a solid, if average start to the season and resolution to last season's cliffhanger.

3.75/5

[JediToren]

I have to say I like those Asgard beam weapons. They are really bad ass. Nice to see them carve up a hive like a Thanksgiving turkey.

I'm sad to see Carter go, and I agree that it was forced. But I'm really looking forward to seeing Robert Picardo as a series regular now. The man is damn funny and I'm sure the writers will pull that stick out of his ass and make him more fun. His character will need to lighten up and grow some balls, though, one McKay is enough.

I also have to say that I liked Continuum, even though it was a goofy time travel story. It has the benefit of not sucking complete ass like "The Ark of Truth."

[Gustav32Vasa]

Was that Mars Michael was orbiting?

[Revy]

I also have to say that I liked Continuum, even though it was a goofy time travel story. It has the benefit of not sucking complete ass like "The Ark of Truth."

Am I the only person who hated Continuum? I couldn't stand it at all. Granted Ark sucked ass just as you say, but I wouldn't rate the second film much higher.

As for the latest Atlantis episode, average but good fun all the same. I just cannot accept these new Wraith/Hybrids as a credible threat though. The Wraith are just about passable, but these Michael groupies are a laugh. Atlantis may as well be fighting humans.

Isn't there something they can do to make the Wraith more of a threat? Like ... maybe a Wraith King/Queen getting taken over by a Goa'uld? Or something at least. There's a new alien race being introduced as well this season, any word on who/what they are?

Oh, and since the actress who played Weir has gone on record as saying she wont be comming back even for a cameo, how are the writers going to handle her evil repliversion we saw last season plotting and scheming? I take it they're just going to pretend that little scene never happened?

[Luzifer's right hand]

Oh, and since the actress who played Weir has gone on record as saying she wont be comming back even for a cameo, how are the writers going to handle her evil repliversion we saw last season plotting and scheming? I take it they're just going to pretend that little scene never happened?

They can always show her on the bridge of the same ship again, a secong afterwards said ship is blown out of the sky by another ship(Tau'ri, Wraith or whatever).

[NecronLord]

Was that Mars Michael was orbiting?

I'm fairly certain it wasn't, just a similar looking planet.

[Strider]

On the Mars front, it DID look like they were panning out of the entire Atlantis galaxy, and the planet they passed just before they got to Michael could have been Earth. The two moons orbiting the Red planet seemed like they might have been a bit large to be Phobos and Deimos, but they were also fairly close in, which I believe is correct. On a more practical note though, it took the souped-up Wraith Cruiser (not a Hive Ship: Hives are about a scale size larger than the Daedalus, though they still aren't a match for it in a stand up fight) only a couple HOURS to reach the planet of interest. This would make it massively faster than even the relatively fast Human Cap-ships, which take weeks without a ZPM. Thus I think it is unlikely that was Earth, though I'm sort of doubting Michael is dead that easy. (Oh look at this surprise, its Michael back to cause trouble! .... oh wait, he's dead again, nevermind)

*Ark of Truth Spoiler*

I also found it rather amusing that the Daedalus just sat around getting pounded by the Cruiser for about half the episode, barely even noticing. It was sort of reminiscent of the Odyssey just sitting there getting pounded by four Ori ships for what seemed like ten minutes in AoT. The shields on a Asgard-boosted Daedalus class battleship are REALLY out of proportion with the general level of armament that exists right now. The random bunches of Ha'taks wandering around in the Milky Way really won't mean squat once there are a couple more of these things.

[Strider]

Doh, can't edit and I meant to tinytext that last bit, sorry. Can a mod do it?

[NecronLord]

Doh, can't edit and I meant to tinytext that last bit, sorry. Can a mod do it?

Done.

Also, yeah, it seems seriously unlikely to be Mars. Unless Mikey's got himself a full on not-a-cheap-304-knockoff asgard drive. Somehow.

[Superboy]

Oh, and since the actress who played Weir has gone on record as saying she wont be comming back even for a cameo, how are the writers going to handle her evil repliversion we saw last season plotting and scheming? I take it they're just going to pretend that little scene never happened?

The summary of upcoming episodes that they released says that Weir will be returning, but played by a different actress.

[Gustav32Vasa]

The summary of upcoming episodes that they released says that Weir will be returning, but played by a different actress.

The first one?

Regarding Mars, I thought it looked like Mars and it seemed that we left Pegasus to arrive in Milkyway. And the planet that was passed could be Earth.

How he got there I have no idea though.

[PREDATOR490]

The entire Michael situation has been a constant source of annoyance since it got to him being 'nemesis' material. The first introduction was fine and it led to a decent cliffhanger but they should have just let him DIE on the planet they blasted.

Michael obviously got off the ship in the Jumper though how is a bit dodgey. I thought Wraith couldnt fly them without help ?

Regardless, at least this episode redeemed the X304 by having them actually HIT this time rather than the poor attempts they had the first time. That said, I'm could'nt help but roll my eyes when the ship was so easily crippled in the brief time it took to transport their guys out.

I would imagine the situation with Mars is an accident rather than intentional in anyway. If Michael was above Mars then he would be able to rain down murder on Earth quite easily as well as the other populations in the galaxy. Still, I would expect the Asurans to do that than Michael in a cliffhanger.
As for Dr. Weir, if the actor is not going to show up then they will either have to write her off, replace her or have her working off screen. Either way it becomes obvious that Dr Weir will have to be a replicator and thus very little hope of rescue. Even if they do rescue her somehow, Woolsey is in charge and I dont see the writers investing in bringing a new actor in if they were going to switch him out during the season.

As for Woolsey, despite Picardo's performance in Voyager and Stargate thus far, I really do not like the idea of them bringing in someone for a humor value when they already have one. They will need to alter Woolsey's character from what they have set up which either means he will magically change to suit the plot or this season's episodes will have these 'unavoidable' situations with Woolsey bitching along the way. Still, I will hold out hope that they can pull it off well.

I will grant one thing to this episode though, the eye candy effects they brought out were rather impressive for Stargate. Though wether or not this will be the norm or just a typical show for the season start is something I will wait to see. I just hope they dont do the same they did with last season by having a few fancy episodes amoungst a season of bland fillers.

[JME2]

[quote="Revy"][quote="JediToren"] There's a new alien race being introduced as well this season, any word on who/what they are?/quote]

No idea; spoilers on Gateworld are mum, but I'm just as curious as you to see what effect this new faction will have on the Pegasus Galaxy. I agree, though, that the Hybrids are a fucking joke and I'd love to see them wiped out before the end of the season.

[Anarchist Bunny]

HA! I was right, according to the Wiki there will be two new secondaries introduced, one in the first episode. I knew when that girl got a line and hit a Dart she was going to be a new character.

[Revy]

Michael obviously got off the ship in the Jumper though how is a bit dodgey. I thought Wraith couldnt fly them without help ?

I'm just as curious as to how he even found it. The inside of Wraith cruisers are not exactly small. I suppose he could have decuded that they would have flown in and landed in the hanger, but even so ...

As to how he can fly it, pressumably since he has been messing around with genetic manipulation he has found a way to apply the ATE gene to his cells (which he could have got from anyone who happened to possess it). Failing that, he did have a clone of Dr Becket helping him with his research. Becket was the first person we saw using the artificial gene therapy (on McKay in the third episode).

That said, I'm could'nt help but roll my eyes when the ship was so easily crippled in the brief time it took to transport their guys out.

That annoyed me as well. Does anyone remember way back when they first had an alliance with the Wraith, and two (or was it three?) Wraith Hiveships (ie the biggest baddest ships the Wraith have) pounded the hell out of the Daed as it emerged from Hyperspace (unshielded), yet it was able to raise shields and continue the fight for some five to ten minutes afterwards. Yet here we have them getting crippled by a lone cruiser? Maybe he just got some lucky shots in, but if a lowly cruiser can do that much damage to an unshielded 304 then I would expect two/three hives to have blasted it to shreds when they had the chance.

What is the deal with Mars? I saw no indication that anyone left the Pegasus galaxy. I'm confused. Where does Mars come into it?

[Timotheus]

Michael obviously got off the ship in the Jumper though how is a bit dodgey. I thought Wraith couldnt fly them without help ?

I'm just as curious as to how he even found it. The inside of Wraith cruisers are not exactly small. I suppose he could have decuded that they would have flown in and landed in the hanger, but even so ...

As to how he can fly it, pressumably since he has been messing around with genetic manipulation he has found a way to apply the ATE gene to his cells (which he could have got from anyone who happened to possess it). Failing that, he did have a clone of Dr Becket helping him with his research. Becket was the first person we saw using the artificial gene therapy (on McKay in the third episode).

That said, I'm could'nt help but roll my eyes when the ship was so easily crippled in the brief time it took to transport their guys out.

That annoyed me as well. Does anyone remember way back when they first had an alliance with the Wraith, and two (or was it three?) Wraith Hiveships (ie the biggest baddest ships the Wraith have) pounded the hell out of the Daed as it emerged from Hyperspace (unshielded), yet it was able to raise shields and continue the fight for some five to ten minutes afterwards. Yet here we have them getting crippled by a lone cruiser? Maybe he just got some lucky shots in, but if a lowly cruiser can do that much damage to an unshielded 304 then I would expect two/three hives to have blasted it to shreds when they had the chance.

What is the deal with Mars? I saw no indication that anyone left the Pegasus galaxy. I'm confused. Where does Mars come into it?

The only thing I can think of is that the new Asgard upgrades are more fragile than the rest of the ship. I am getting the feeling that the first thing to go any time a 304 gets his hard will be the Asgard upgrades. We saw that here and we saw it in the final episode of Season 4 with the alternate future Phoenix.

[Revy]

Smells more of an act of plot to me, by far the greatest cause for mechanical failure in starships the universe over.

[Timotheus]

Smells more of an act of plot to me, by far the greatest cause for mechanical failure in starships the universe over.

Unfortunately we have now been shown that one on one there is no ship in three galaxies that can take on an Asgard upgraded 304 so I expect either we see less ships, new enemies, or lots of act of plot.

I mean seriously. The Wraith are a non-issue now. Two 304's working together could wipe out the Wrait hive-ship fleet. The Wraith cannot just fall back like the Replicators they need to spread out to feed.

[Agent Fisher]

Combat engineers! And a fucking M-4! Finally, something other than a P-90!

[NecronLord]

Smells more of an act of plot to me, by far the greatest cause for mechanical failure in starships the universe over.

Unfortunately we have now been shown that one on one there is no ship in three galaxies that can take on an Asgard upgraded 304

Logically, two Anubis Ha'taks ought to be able to stomp the crap out of it, at least in a stand up fight. Yeah, the Beliskner-class was a generation or two behind, but it was much, much bigger.

Presumably a larger goa'uld ship upgraded to the same standard should be able to do it.

But yes, these ships are frankly overpowered. They ought to have wraith (or wraith worshippers) board and seize one, or use other advanced technology to even the odds a little.

[Timotheus]

Smells more of an act of plot to me, by far the greatest cause for mechanical failure in starships the universe over.

Unfortunately we have now been shown that one on one there is no ship in three galaxies that can take on an Asgard upgraded 304

Logically, two Anubis Ha'taks ought to be able to stomp the crap out of it, at least in a stand up fight. Yeah, the Beliskner-class was a generation or two behind, but it was much, much bigger.

Presumably a larger goa'uld ship upgraded to the same standard should be able to do it.

Hard to say.

Ori ships could not stand up to it at all. In addition the Anubis upgraded ships were better than standard ones due to his access to ancient tech from his ascension. If that is the limit of his upgrades then there is no chance here. Ancient battleships under the control of the Replicators crumbled almost instantly with no indication that their shields were even holding for a few seconds when fired upon by the 304's Asgard beam weapons.

In addition we see the super ship built by Sokar and captured by Apohis was no match for a replicator ship when it and SG-1 were thrown into another galaxy by the exploding sun of the Tok'ra system.

The only time we see an upgraded 304 lose is in the alternate future and it is taken down by 3 Hive ships in ambush.

[Revy]

In addition we see the super ship built by Sokar and captured by Apohis was no match for a replicator ship when it and SG-1 were thrown into another galaxy by the exploding sun of the Tok'ra system.

To be fair, it was almost assuredly damaged by the supernova blast wave. Keep in mind that the much weaker Ha'Tak SG1 had left before Apophis' ship did, and even then still sustained such heavy damage that shields, weapons and hyperdrive were all down simply because of the blast wave propelling them from the nova. Apophis' ship, having left even later, would have recieved an even bigger toasting, and it is pressumably only due to the ships tougher design that it still had weapons and shields working at all - at reduced capacity (at least for the weapons). When that supership blew up Heru'er, it fired an impressive salvo of shots that blew it away. When it fought the replicator ship, it was only able to manage one shot every few seconds.

I'm still puzzled by that fight. It's widely assumed the Replicators won that fight, disabled Apophis' ship, and then buggered off whilst the bugs that beamed over assimilated the ship. But Replicator tactics at that time (without a human form leader) dictated that the bugs generally stuck together, and considered strength in numbers to be key. In which case it seems highly uncharacteristic and stupid of them to thrash a big new ship, and then depart and leave the defenseless hulk all on its own for anyone to come along and blow up ... though I suppose they might have left after realizing they couldnt deactivate the self destruct.

Anyway, as to tackling a 304, I suppose an Anubis superweapon ship fully powered (as seen at the end of Full Circle) might have the neccessary shield and weapon strength to pull it off, though that's pure speculation. If I had to guess (and this is a big guess) then perhaps the new alien threat to be introduced this season will have the firepower to tackle 304's, and in fact may be getting introduced for that very reason - to create a credible threat to the Atlantis team and their ships, since the Replicators are overused and the Wraith are too weak to do the job.

[NecronLord]

Unfortunately we have now been shown that one on one there is no ship in three galaxies that can take on an Asgard upgraded 304

Logically, two Anubis Ha'taks ought to be able to stomp the crap out of it, at least in a stand up fight. Yeah, the Beliskner-class was a generation or two behind, but it was much, much bigger.

Presumably a larger goa'uld ship upgraded to the same standard should be able to do it.

Hard to say.

Ori ships could not stand up to it at all. In addition the Anubis upgraded ships were better than standard ones due to his access to ancient tech from his ascension. If that is the limit of his upgrades then there is no chance here. Ancient battleships under the control of the Replicators crumbled almost instantly with no indication that their shields were even holding for a few seconds when fired upon by the 304's Asgard beam weapons.

They'd just dropped out of hyperspace; their shields were presumably down. We only see very few Auroras destroyed (remember, explosions on the shields don't necesserily mean the ship's being damaged) in the battle of Asuras. Before the DeM gets them, we only actually see two or three Auroras destroyed (one from the combined fire of a 304 and a hive, the other from uncertain targets), compared with a number of rebel ships - indeed, supposedly the Oddessy was supposedly very near to total shield failure three minutes in.

The real nerfing in that episode is that the Asurans' systems were apparently not able to detect 304s and their allies - perhaps there is an Asgard ECM suite upgrade that was allowing them (and ships travelling with them) to consistantly get the drop on the Asurans.

In addition we see the super ship built by Sokar and captured by Apohis was no match for a replicator ship when it and SG-1 were thrown into another galaxy by the exploding sun of the Tok'ra system.

Really? How do we know it didn't utterly vapourise the replicator ship, only to be shafted by a few replicators that got on board during the battle? Also, I wouldn't necesserily assume Sokar built that ship; he wasn't using it at the time of his death, after all.

Never mind that those replicator-captured ships were only seen on two occasions; and are a complete unknown, they might be able to shred O'Neills and wipe their ass with them for all we know. We certainly know that Thor required a human vessel to go near Halla, which was apparently only guarded by one such ship that we saw (and he'd yet to witness replicators forming ships out of replicator blocks). It's possible it's more than a match for an O'Neill.

[Revy]

The real nerfing in that episode is that the Asurans' systems were apparently not able to detect 304s and their allies - perhaps there is an Asgard ECM suite upgrade that was allowing them (and ships travelling with them) to consistantly get the drop on the Asurans.

I've thought about this issue and I realised something - in an earlier episode I think I remember where they said that the long range sensors had to be "aimed" at a particular spot in space in order to detect something. Atlantis knew where to look for the Replicators because they knew the location of their world, but without knowing where Atlantis had relocated to, the Replicators had no way of knowing where to direct their long range sensors, and thus were restricted to random sweeps of space in the hopes of spotting anything far off coming at them. Which may explain how Atlantis knew what the Repli ships were doing, but not the other way around.

Of course without being able to quote actual episode refrences I could be completely wrong, but I'll look into it at some point to see if I did remember that right.

Really? How do we know it didn't utterly vapourise the replicator ship, only to be shafted by a few replicators that got on board during the battle? Also, I wouldn't necesserily assume Sokar built that ship; he wasn't using it at the time of his death, after all.

Well it wasn't fairing to well the last we saw of it - the replicator ship seemed to be able to cancel every shot directed at them, whilst simultaneously hitting back. Still, their shots weren't instantly punching through Apophis' shields, and it's possible Apophis was able to get some systems repaired and thus increase his weapons fire to be able to destroy the Replicator ship, but since we didn't see anything all we can do is speculate.

As to this ship being Sokars or Apophis', well it might have been fresh off the production line since Sokar was ordering the fleet to be made ready, and he would no doubt have been having his shipyards working flat out in preperation for his planned attack. It's feasible that the big cap ship Apophis' later uses was intended to be Sokars flagship for his attack on the system lords, and that it was only just finished being built when his Jaffa reported that they had the fleet prepared on time. Sokar might have intended to transfer to his new bigass flagship, were it not for all the distractions that ultimately killed him.

Speculation, I know, it sucks. It could just as easily have been a new ship Apophis' had built for himself. I doubt we'll ever know. It's a shame, the ship design itself was pretty cool, but we'll likely never see it again.

[Timotheus]

The real nerfing in that episode is that the Asurans' systems were apparently not able to detect 304s and their allies - perhaps there is an Asgard ECM suite upgrade that was allowing them (and ships travelling with them) to consistantly get the drop on the Asurans.

I've thought about this issue and I realised something - in an earlier episode I think I remember where they said that the long range sensors had to be "aimed" at a particular spot in space in order to detect something. Atlantis knew where to look for the Replicators because they knew the location of their world, but without knowing where Atlantis had relocated to, the Replicators had no way of knowing where to direct their long range sensors, and thus were restricted to random sweeps of space in the hopes of spotting anything far off coming at them. Which may explain how Atlantis knew what the Repli ships were doing, but not the other way around.

Of course without being able to quote actual episode refrences I could be completely wrong, but I'll look into it at some point to see if I did remember that right.

Really? How do we know it didn't utterly vapourise the replicator ship, only to be shafted by a few replicators that got on board during the battle? Also, I wouldn't necesserily assume Sokar built that ship; he wasn't using it at the time of his death, after all.

Well it wasn't fairing to well the last we saw of it - the replicator ship seemed to be able to cancel every shot directed at them, whilst simultaneously hitting back. Still, their shots weren't instantly punching through Apophis' shields, and it's possible Apophis was able to get some systems repaired and thus increase his weapons fire to be able to destroy the Replicator ship, but since we didn't see anything all we can do is speculate.

As to this ship being Sokars or Apophis', well it might have been fresh off the production line since Sokar was ordering the fleet to be made ready, and he would no doubt have been having his shipyards working flat out in preperation for his planned attack. It's feasible that the big cap ship Apophis' later uses was intended to be Sokars flagship for his attack on the system lords, and that it was only just finished being built when his Jaffa reported that they had the fleet prepared on time. Sokar might have intended to transfer to his new bigass flagship, were it not for all the distractions that ultimately killed him.

Speculation, I know, it sucks. It could just as easily have been a new ship Apophis' had built for himself. I doubt we'll ever know. It's a shame, the ship design itself was pretty cool, but we'll likely never see it again.

Jacob is quoted as saying that there is no sign of the alien vessel. Even an expanding debri field would be some sign.

I think we are pretty safe assuming that it is Sokars ship. We only see it after Sokar is killed and Apophis takes over. This would fit well with the statements that Sokar was 10 times as strong as expected and would be able to take on the System Lords on his own.