Sudanese president faces ICC, genocide charges

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

Post Reply
User avatar
TithonusSyndrome
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2569
Joined: 2006-10-10 08:15pm
Location: The Money Store

Sudanese president faces ICC, genocide charges

Post by TithonusSyndrome »

The Telegraph
President Omar al-Bashir, who seized power in a coup 19 years ago, has become the first serving head of state ever to face proceedings at the ICC in The Hague.

Luis Moreno-Ocampo, the ICC's chief prosecutor, asked three judges to charge Mr Bashir with three counts of genocide, five of crimes against humanity and two of murder.

All these alleged offences were committed during the war in Sudan's western region of Darfur, which began in 2003 and has claimed about 300,000 lives.

The "pre-trial chamber" will now consider this request. If they agree, Mr Bashir will be formally charged and an international arrest warrant issued in his name.

A statement from Mr Moreno-Ocampo's office said he had "presented evidence today showing that the Sudanese President committed the crimes of genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes in Darfur".

The statement added: "The Prosecutor has concluded there are reasonable grounds to believe that he [Mr Bashir] bears criminal responsibility in relation to 10 counts of genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes."

Sudan's regime may retaliate against aid workers and peacekeeping soldiers in Darfur.

It will place pressure on the international relief effort, with the aim of creating more suffering among ordinary Sudanese, which can then be blamed on the West.

Ban Ki-Moon, the United Nations secretary-general, told Le Figaro that he was "very worried" about the possible indictment of Mr Bashir.

"It would have very serious consequences for peacekeeping operations including the political process. I'm very worried, but nobody can evade justice," said Mr Ban.
Looks like the trendy Hollywood cause celebre has come of age into a proper matter of serious international political import. Let's see if the ICC can change the public perception of it's efficacy.
Image
User avatar
Wanderer
Jedi Master
Posts: 1195
Joined: 2006-02-21 07:02pm
Location: Freedom
Contact:

Re: Sudanese president faces ICC, genocide charges

Post by Wanderer »

TithonusSyndrome wrote: Looks like the trendy Hollywood cause celebre has come of age into a proper matter of serious international political import. Let's see if the ICC can change the public perception of it's efficacy.
That will only happen when it manages to bring George W. Bush, his cabinet and a lot of Upper Level U.S. Military Officers before it for war crimes, till then it will always be seen as America's bitch to be used against America's enemies when it suits America.
Amateurs study Logistics, Professionals study Economics.
Dale Cozort (slightly out of context quote)
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Post by Thanas »

^Eh? It is a well known fact that the US opposed the creation of that court vehemently.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
Sea Skimmer
Yankee Capitalist Air Pirate
Posts: 37390
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:49pm
Location: Passchendaele City, HAB

Re: Sudanese president faces ICC, genocide charges

Post by Sea Skimmer »

Wanderer wrote: That will only happen when it manages to bring George W. Bush, his cabinet and a lot of Upper Level U.S. Military Officers before it for war crimes, till then it will always be seen as America's bitch to be used against America's enemies when it suits America.
So in other words, you don’t have a fucking clue what the ICC is and who runs it. Hint, not America.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
User avatar
Guardsman Bass
Cowardly Codfish
Posts: 9281
Joined: 2002-07-07 12:01am
Location: Beneath the Deepest Sea

Re: Sudanese president faces ICC, genocide charges

Post by Guardsman Bass »

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Wanderer wrote: That will only happen when it manages to bring George W. Bush, his cabinet and a lot of Upper Level U.S. Military Officers before it for war crimes, till then it will always be seen as America's bitch to be used against America's enemies when it suits America.
So in other words, you don’t have a fucking clue what the ICC is and who runs it. Hint, not America.
Indeed. I remember one of the biggest disputes the U.S. had with the Court was whether or not the Court could bring war crimes charges against American soldiers. The U.S. has never been on good terms with the Court, nevermind the Court being some kind of U.S."bitch".
“It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.”
-Jean-Luc Picard


"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them."
-Margaret Atwood
User avatar
hongi
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1952
Joined: 2006-10-15 02:14am
Location: Sydney

Re: Sudanese president faces ICC, genocide charges

Post by hongi »

TithonusSyndrome wrote: Looks like the trendy Hollywood cause celebre has come of age into a proper matter of serious international political import. Let's see if the ICC can change the public perception of it's efficacy.
About fucking time. Jesus Christ, everyone knows it's a genocide and has known for years. Looks like the international community has grown some fucking balls.
User avatar
Fingolfin_Noldor
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11834
Joined: 2006-05-15 10:36am
Location: At the Helm of the HAB Star Dreadnaught Star Fist

Re: Sudanese president faces ICC, genocide charges

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

hongi wrote:
TithonusSyndrome wrote: Looks like the trendy Hollywood cause celebre has come of age into a proper matter of serious international political import. Let's see if the ICC can change the public perception of it's efficacy.
About fucking time. Jesus Christ, everyone knows it's a genocide and has known for years. Looks like the international community has grown some fucking balls.
Or not. This will just be more grandstanding in my opinion, and nothing done in the end.
Image
STGOD: Byzantine Empire
Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia
Axis Kast
Vympel's Bitch
Posts: 3893
Joined: 2003-03-02 10:45am
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Contact:

Post by Axis Kast »

Or not. This will just be more grandstanding in my opinion, and nothing done in the end.
Agreed. There is no real possibility of anyone apprehending Bashir.

In dealing with Sudan, there are not a lot of effective "sticks" available. The NCP is already fighting for its life. The entire rationale for provoking disaster in Darfur, aside from the obvious interest in crushing a domestic insurgency, is to either gerrymander the area, or to disqualify it due to ongoing chaos, in anticipation of upcoming national elections. At this immediate point in time, it looks as if the NCP is still in possession of the preponderance of wealth, and certainly the lion's share of military power, in Sudan.

As for sticks, there are few. It is difficult to imagine large-scale military intervention, which would anyway be useless without long-term commitment to nation-building (which implicitly requires that Darfur secede and a relatively representative, or sufficiently all-power, leadership be installed there). One of the most potent ways to influence the NCP might be through a divestment campaign. U.S. participation alone is valued at a potential $91.2 billion.

Of course, right now, area expert Alex de Waal points out that hard-liners who regard concessions as utter anathema are gaining traction in the NCP ranks -- especially because of their ability to mobilize huge numbers of irregular forces to replace the unreliable regulars of the Sudanese Army. These individuals are encouraging al-Bashir to permit no precedents that will encourage the international community to believe that Sudan can be made to bow to external pressure.

The real "key" for Darfur is probably to permit the NCP to win in the remainder of Sudan, with special bilateral arrangements between Khartoum and the SPLM, Khartoum and the north (where the NCP can probably be induced to spread some wealth to attract potential voters), and Khartoum and the Beja Congress in the east. Darfur would have to be handled separately; perhaps by allowing Arabs to vote in the national election and to have cantonal government, while Darfuris do not vote nationally, but form local bodies that work in tandem with international donors to provide the services and personal security necessary to save lives. Taking black Africans out of the electoral equation technically eliminates the "need" for genocide as articulated by NCP hard-liners, while foreign aid and self-rule mitigate some of the concerns of revolutionaries.

Obviously, this is an unwieldy "fix" that involves a lot of delicate horse-trading. Over time, Darfur would have to somehow be appended back to Sudan, maybe after the NCP moderates. It would put a great deal of burden on the international community as well, since Darfur requires extremely intensive nation-building. It does, however, have the benefit of giving every side a very attractive stake in a positive outcome. You'll also notice that there are few sticks -- mostly because there are few projected losers to force into line.
User avatar
RIPP_n_WIPE
Jedi Knight
Posts: 711
Joined: 2007-01-26 09:04am
Location: with coco

Post by RIPP_n_WIPE »

Have any special forces from the international community been dispatched?

I am the hammer, I am the right hand of my Lord. The instrument of His will and the gauntlet about His fist. The tip of His spear, the edge of His sword. I am His wrath just as he is my shield. I am the bane of His foes and the woe of the treacherous. I am the end.


-Ravus Ordo Militis

"Fear and ignorance claim the unwary and the incomplete. The wise man may flinch away from their embrace if he girds his soul with the armour of contempt."
User avatar
Wanderer
Jedi Master
Posts: 1195
Joined: 2006-02-21 07:02pm
Location: Freedom
Contact:

Re: Sudanese president faces ICC, genocide charges

Post by Wanderer »

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Wanderer wrote: That will only happen when it manages to bring George W. Bush, his cabinet and a lot of Upper Level U.S. Military Officers before it for war crimes, till then it will always be seen as America's bitch to be used against America's enemies when it suits America.
So in other words, you don’t have a fucking clue what the ICC is and who runs it. Hint, not America.
Not quite my intention and I should have been more clear.

What I meant was until the Court has the ability to indict Americans, most Dictators in the third world see or advertise it as "American Run" despite the fact it isn't.

"Shrugs shoulders"

Sad thing is, they do have a point, the Court should be able to indict anyone and try them, hell they can start with a few surviving SS men who have yet to face justice.
Amateurs study Logistics, Professionals study Economics.
Dale Cozort (slightly out of context quote)
Axis Kast
Vympel's Bitch
Posts: 3893
Joined: 2003-03-02 10:45am
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Contact:

Post by Axis Kast »

Have any special forces from the international community been dispatched?
To enforce the ICC order? No.

To support UNAMID? To my knowledge, there are no commando units present with the currently-deployed forces.
User avatar
Gaidin
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2646
Joined: 2004-06-19 12:27am
Contact:

Re: Sudanese president faces ICC, genocide charges

Post by Gaidin »

Wanderer wrote:
Sad thing is, they do have a point, the Court should be able to indict anyone and try them, hell they can start with a few surviving SS men who have yet to face justice.
Except the court doesn't try any crime from before 2002. Unlike Nuremburg they acknowledge ex post facto.
Post Reply