Technological Future: Man IS the machine

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Technological Future: Man IS the machine

Post by Kodiak »

Forgive me if this has been posted previously.
link to cnn article
LONDON, England (CNN) -- A group of experts from around the world will hold a first of its kind conference Thursday on global catastrophic risks.

They will discuss what should be done to prevent these risks from becoming realities that could lead to the end of human life on Earth as we know it.

Speakers at the four-day event at Oxford University in Britain will talk about topics including nuclear terrorism and what to do if a large asteroid were to be on a collision course with our planet.

On the final day of the Global Catastrophic Risk Conference, experts will focus on what could be the unintended consequences of new technologies, such as superintelligent machines that, if ill-conceived, might cause the demise of Homo sapiens.

"Any entity which is radically smarter than human beings would also be very powerful," said Dr. Nick Bostrom, director of Oxford's Future of Humanity Institute, host of the symposium. "If we get something wrong, you could imagine the consequences would involve the extinction of the human species."

Bostrom is a philosopher and a leading thinker of transhumanism, a movement that advocates not only the study of the potential threats and promises that future technologies could pose to human life but also the ways in which emergent technologies could be used to make the very act of living better.

"We want to preserve the best of what it is to be human and maybe even amplify that," Bostrom said.

Transhumanists, according to Bostrom, anticipate an era in which biotechnology, molecular nanotechnologies, artificial intelligence and other new types of cognitive tools will be used to amplify our intellectual capacity, improve our physical capabilities and even enhance our emotional well-being.

The end result would be a new form of "posthuman" life with beings that possess qualities and skills so exceedingly advanced they no longer can be classified simply as humans.

"We will begin to use science and technology not just to manage the world around us but to manage our own human biology as well," Bostrom said. "The changes will be faster and more profound than the very, very slow changes that would occur over tens of thousands of years as a result of natural selection and biological evolution."

Bostrom declined to predict an exact time frame when this revolutionary biotechnological metamorphosis might occur. "Maybe it will take eight years or 200 years," he said. "It is very hard to predict."

Other experts are already getting ready for what they say could be a radical transformation of the human race in as little as two decades.

"This will happen faster than people realize," said Dr. Ray Kurzweil, an inventor and futurist who calculates technology trends using what he calls the law of accelerating returns, a mathematical concept that measures the exponential growth of technological evolution.

In the 1980s, Kurzweil predicted that a tiny handheld device would be invented early in the 21st century, allowing blind people to read documents from anywhere at anytime; this year, such a device was publicly unveiled. He also anticipated the explosive growth of the Internet in the 1990s.

Now, Kurzweil is predicting the arrival of something called the Singularity, which he defines in his book on the subject as "the culmination of the merger of our biological thinking and existence with our technology, resulting in a world that is still human but that transcends our biological roots."

"There will be no distinction, post-Singularity, between human and machine or between physical and virtual reality," he writes.

Singularity will approach at an accelerating rate as human-created technologies become exponentially smaller and increasingly powerful and as fields such as biology and medicine are understood more and more in terms of information processes that can be simulated with computers.

By the 2030s, Kurzweil said, humans will become more non-biological than biological, capable of uploading our minds onto the Internet, living in various virtual worlds and even avoiding aging and evading death.

In the 2040s, Kurzweil predicts that non-biological intelligence will be billions of times better than the biological intelligence humans have today, possibly rendering our present brains obsolete.

"Our brains are a million times slower than electronics," Kurzweil said. "We will increasingly become software entities if you go out enough decades."

This movement towards the merger of man and machine, according to Kurzweil, is already starting to happen and is most visible in the field of biotechnology.

As scientists gain deeper insights into the genetic processes that underlie life, they are able to effectively reprogram human biology through the development of new forms of gene therapies and medications capable of turning on or off enzymes and RNA interference, or gene silencing.

"Biology and health and medicine used to be hit or miss," Kurzweil sad. "It wasn't based on any coherent theory about how it works."

The emerging biotechnology revolution will lead to at least a thousand new drugs that could do anything from slow down the process of aging to reverse the onset of diseases, like heart disease and cancer, Kurzweil said.

By 2020, Kurzweil predicts a second revolution in the area of nanotechnology. According to his calculations, it is already showing signs of exponential growth as scientists begin to test first generation nanobots that can cure Type 1 diabetes in rats or heal spinal cord injuries in mice.

One scientist is developing something called a respirocyte, a robotic red blood cell that, if injected into the bloodstream, would allow humans to do an Olympic sprint for 15 minutes without taking a breath or sit at the bottom of a swimming pool for hours at a time.

Other researchers are developing nanoparticles that can locate tumors and one day even eradicate them.

And some Parkinson's patients now have pea-sized computers implanted in their brains that replace neurons destroyed by the disease; new software can be downloaded to the mini computers from outside the human body.

"Nanotechnology will not just be used to reprogram but to transcend biology and go beyond its limitations by merging with non-biological systems," Kurzweil said. "If we rebuild biological systems with nanotechnology, we can go beyond its limits."

The final revolution leading to the advent of Singularity will be the creation of artificial intelligence, or superintelligence, which, according to Kurzweil, could be capable of solving many of our biggest threats, like environmental destruction, poverty and disease.

"A more intelligent process will inherently outcompete one that is less intelligent, making intelligence the most powerful force in the universe," Kurzweil writes.

Yet the invention of so many high-powered technologies and the possibility of merging these new technologies with humans may pose both peril and promise for the future of mankind.

"I think there are grave dangers," Kurzweil said. "Technology has always been a double-edged sword."
I find this article fascinating, as I'm highly interested in the integration of man-and-machine, though my interest lies mostly in prosthetics. It's exciting to think of such leaps and bounds coming in the next 20 years, but I'm sure that all the consequences could never be anticipated. One I can think of now is the staggering gap that would form between the technological "haves" and "have-nots" being so great that we may well consider ourselves different species
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Respirocytes sound incredibly badass, though I've never heard of them before.
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Post by Starglider »

Respirocytes sound incredibly badass, though I've never heard of them before.
There are lots of concepts like this for using microrobotics and/or nanotech to do cyborg hybridisation at a microscopic level, as opposed to the classic 'bolt on shiny bits' approach. They're kind of exciting I suppose, but really by the time we have the tech to do it safely and reliably, the technology to just replace the whole human body with a superior robotic one will be following close behind.

I am actually stopping in Oxford this weekend to chat to some of the people going to the conference, but I didn't think it was worth the time and money to do the conference itself. Essentially everything that's going to be said there has already been presented in papers and/or discussed in the appropriate online forums.
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Post by Kodiak »

Starglider wrote: I am actually stopping in Oxford this weekend to chat to some of the people going to the conference, but I didn't think it was worth the time and money to do the conference itself. Essentially everything that's going to be said there has already been presented in papers and/or discussed in the appropriate online forums.
You don't think there's potential value in an open dialogue on the subject? The point is that they're sharing their ideas in a forum for debate, not just writing papers from their ivory tower. I for one was glad to see scientists and philosophers talking together.
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Post by Jaepheth »

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Respirocytes sound incredibly badass, though I've never heard of them before.
Imentioned them here and had a link to a detailed paper on them.
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Post by Starglider »

Kodiak wrote:You don't think there's potential value in an open dialogue on the subject?
Sure, just not for me personally.
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

There are lots of concepts like this for using microrobotics and/or nanotech to do cyborg hybridisation at a microscopic level, as opposed to the classic 'bolt on shiny bits' approach. They're kind of exciting I suppose, but really by the time we have the tech to do it safely and reliably, the technology to just replace the whole human body with a superior robotic one will be following close behind.
I dunno, I'd be happy to get robot injections or whatever, but to give up my whole body is a step that I probably wouldn't take.
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Post by Starglider »

CaptainChewbacca wrote:I dunno, I'd be happy to get robot injections or whatever, but to give up my whole body is a step that I probably wouldn't take.
It's ok. You can just stay here on earth for the next few millenia. The tourists (Mind avatars, mostly) will appreciate the local colour. ;)
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Starglider wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:I dunno, I'd be happy to get robot injections or whatever, but to give up my whole body is a step that I probably wouldn't take.
It's ok. You can just stay here on earth for the next few millenia. The tourists (Mind avatars, mostly) will appreciate the local colour. ;)
After a while it all starts to sound like that Orions-Arm nonsense.
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Post by Starglider »

CaptainChewbacca wrote:After a while it all starts to sound like that Orions-Arm nonsense.
Your inability to distinguish real science from mindless repetition by babbling buzzword-hungry idiots is not my problem.
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Post by Kanastrous »

I know a lot of Transhumanist types, being in SoCal (Max More, Natasha Vita-Moore, or whatever she's going by now, etc), and I find that, if these are the people with whom I'd be sharing a roboticized, super-improved thousand-year-life span human future, I'd seriously consider the traditional end-of-life dirt-nap, instead.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Starglider wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:After a while it all starts to sound like that Orions-Arm nonsense.
Your inability to distinguish real science from mindless repetition by babbling buzzword-hungry idiots is not my problem.
Man, are you a douchebag. I can't wait til you get banned someday.
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

The Transhumanists are going to be fun to listen to when they consider that the basic limits to Earth as they are now are going to make a lot of this dreaming somewhat redundant. I was of the mind of an end to money, disease and all badness for years too, having read a good load of literature on the matter, but sadly reality does not go according to plan.

Kurzweil is frequently hilarious, for instance, but most people see him as a kooky kind of guy. His ability to handwave things like the energy crisis away so he can continue with his vision is something to behold.
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Starglider wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:After a while it all starts to sound like that Orions-Arm nonsense.
Your inability to distinguish real science from mindless repetition by babbling buzzword-hungry idiots is not my problem.
My appologies. Please give me the real-science details and practical workings of a mind-avatar, I'd like to build one.
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Post by Starglider »

Kanastrous wrote:I know a lot of Transhumanist types, being in SoCal (Max More, Natasha Vita-Moore, or whatever she's going by now, etc), and I find that, if these are the people with whom I'd be sharing a roboticized, super-improved thousand-year-life span human future, I'd seriously consider the traditional end-of-life dirt-nap, instead.
Sadly I'd have to agree with you there. However these are generally not the people actually devoting their lives to researching nanomaterials or neurbiology or AI. They are generally the hangers on.
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Admiral Valdemar wrote:The Transhumanists are going to be fun to listen to when they consider that the basic limits to Earth as they are now are going to make a lot of this dreaming somewhat redundant.
Most of the relevant technology does not take spectacular resources to develop or deploy - only the space based stuff really, which isn't central to the concept. Civilisation could crash of course and screw everyone over, but if you're traveling in nihilist circles you should be crying 'doom, doom, doom' to everyone, no sense singling out transhumanists just because their cheerfulness is screwing up with your malthusian ambiance.

No, the four main mistakes transhumanists tend to make are;
1) Assuming they and all their friends will get the cool toys when in fact only the insanely rich will get them and/or they won't be developed in their lifetimes.
2) Assuming that increasing automation will put automatically put an end to scarcity economics.
3) Acting as if they can realistically predict the consequences of these technologies (particularly henious for significantly transhuman intelligence).
4) Acting as if all these technologies are safe (worse of all, assuming that transhuman intelligences will be nice).
Admiral Valdemar wrote:Kurzweil is frequently hilarious, for instance, but most people see him as a kooky kind of guy.
That's essentially because he is. In fact he's an interesting proof that someone can be highly intelligent, practical (he's done some very good engineering work), rational and still kooky.
Admiral Valdemar wrote:His ability to handwave things like the energy crisis away so he can continue with his vision is something to behold.
There are plenty of theoretical solutions to the energy crisis. The problem is that Kurzweil (and many other transhumanists I know) vastly underestimate the difficulty of putting theory into practice - most typically by assuming that general assemblers are ten years off instead of a century off.
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Post by Starglider »

CaptainChewbacca wrote:My appologies. Please give me the real-science details and practical workings of a mind-avatar, I'd like to build one.
Certainly. They're all specified in 'The Excession'.

If you meant 'your joke is lame and sounds like something Orions Arm people would say', then yeah guilty as charged. I read your comment as 'transhumanism in general and that conference in particular all sounds like Orions Arm type idiocy'.
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

I have no issues with these concepts, like I say, I was a big reader of this stuff years ago and loved the likes of Drexler or Warwick. But over the years, I've seen less and less progress and reality creeped in. It was never going to be as easy as many hoped it would be, much as I'd love to be augmented in so many ways. The theory may be sound, though it's for naught, as you say, without implementation.

And as I often point out, the issues of today around climate and energy are readily solvable. That they haven't been is indicative of our species' leanings, more than our technical capability. I can imagine a new church being formed from the rabid "grey goo" crowd, whenever the word "nano" is mentioned in public (just look at GM crops and how a solution to famine in so many states exists, if only people weren't so ignorant of it).
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Post by SirNitram »

Starglider wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:My appologies. Please give me the real-science details and practical workings of a mind-avatar, I'd like to build one.
Certainly. They're all specified in 'The Excession'.

If you meant 'your joke is lame and sounds like something Orions Arm people would say', then yeah guilty as charged. I read your comment as 'transhumanism in general and that conference in particular all sounds like Orions Arm type idiocy'.
Asked to explain an obscure claim, he cites a book or paper. Now, Googling 'The Excession' turns up on the fictional Culture book, so perhaps idiot here would like to get more specific before you burbles from the throat some more.
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Post by Starglider »

Admiral Valdemar wrote:I have no issues with these concepts, like I say, I was a big reader of this stuff years ago and loved the likes of Drexler or Warwick. But over the years, I've seen less and less progress and reality creeped in.
The core problem with most of these is simply that the academics came up with them assumed that the theory was the hard part and the implementation would be trivial. Had they paid attention to rocketry, they'd have realised that engineering your way beyond the cutting edge is really hard* - as a result all the original time estimates were something like an order of magnitude too small. Compounding this for nanotech in particular was the atmosphere in the late 90s - it's hard to envision now, but for a couple of years everyone was going on about 'internet time' and 'accelerating change' and generally losing sight of the realities of technological progress.

As I noted, at least the stuff the transhumanists are excited about can be built by small teams and distributed efforts without massive political will. The space enthusiasts are in a much worse position in that sense.

* AI is an exception; the theory there is genuinely harder than the engineering, so hard that we still don't a convincing proof of plausibility other than 'the brain does it and tests confirm that the brain is nothing special'.
And as I often point out, the issues of today around climate and energy are readily solvable.
With relatively conventional technology, some foresight, major economic restructuring and massive amounts of political will yes. The thing is, no small group can make a significant difference to that. You can make personal preparations and advise your friends to do the same, but that's about it.

The thing transhumanists are interested in (extropians is probably more accurate despite sounding silly) is small groups solving these problems with 'ultratechnology' - massively disruptive things like nanoassemblers and AI. Generally there are good arguments of physical plausibility for these and it's hard to argue that they aren't incredibly powerful and dangerous in their mature forms. The real debate is about development trajectory (how long, what order things come in, who pays for it, who controls it). These are in fact the kind of questions that this conference will be addressing - or at least half of it, the other half is about things like biowar, asteroid strikes, runaway climate change and yes economic collapse due to resource exhaustion.

Clearly some people were and are far too optimistic on this front. But their predictive failure doesn't magically make the issues go away.
I can imagine a new church being formed from the rabid "grey goo" crowd,
First Church of the Grey Goo!
whenever the word "nano" is mentioned in public (just look at GM crops and how a solution to famine in so many states exists, if only people weren't so ignorant of it).
Bah. I'm not terribly worried about it. GM food is a hot button because people have strong cultural and even instinctual fears about 'tampering with nature' and tainted food in particular. Nanotech is abstract and complicated and uninteresting. A few clowns are trying to create pre-emptive health scares as a funding grab but they're not getting very far. I doubt the real regulation will come in time to slow down development.

As for malevolent AI, maybe you could've gotten people worked up about that in the 80s. But familiarity with computers (including the grave limitations of conventional software) and Hollywood beating their dead horse version of it into the ground seem to have put the idea firmly in kook territory, for most of the population (people like Hugo de Garis certainly helped that along).
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Post by Fire Fly »

I have major doubts about some of these claims by the so called futurists. I tend to just not listen to them because they just take the end product of research and make extrapolations without understanding how it really works or the innate technical problems. We aren't going to have robots and flying cars in every household just because a mathematical model says so, as much as I would like one.

We still don't even know how higher order integration works in something as simple as a nematode. True AI isn't going to happen by 2040 unless there's some gigantic steps made in the next few years. Here's a diagram showing the calculated circuit involved in the "simple" gill withdrawal behavior the sea slug:

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I don't know what the other fields think, but neurobiology thinks AI is decades away and I'm not talking about the three decades that Kurzweil is talking about.
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Post by Dooey Jo »

Creating AI by emulating biological neurons seems pretty inefficient anyway. Plus, we'd need to know pretty much exactly how everything in a brain works: It's not just (billions of) neurons, and there's not even just one type of neuron. That knowledge itself is probably decades away.
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Post by dragon »

One possible solution to only the rich get the cool toys is to offer them in exchange for services. So say they get a 1000 plus life span increase but they have to spend say a few hundred of it colonizing space.
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Post by PeZook »

dragon wrote:One possible solution to only the rich get the cool toys is to offer them in exchange for services. So say they get a 1000 plus life span increase but they have to spend say a few hundred of it colonizing space.
Or serve as soldiers. At the end of their tour they may even get their old personality back, after having it replaced by one optimized for combat :D
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Post by Winston Blake »

dragon wrote:One possible solution to only the rich get the cool toys is to offer them in exchange for services. So say they get a 1000 plus life span increase but they have to spend say a few hundred of it colonizing space.
They'd already be exchanged for something - money. Instead of 'Who wants immortality, sign here if you want some' it's more like 'We funded you, you signed a contract, we own it already, see ya'.
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Post by Sarevok »

Starglider :

I always thought creating what you academic types call an AGI by mimicking the brain is similar to 19th century dreams of building a flying contraption by using flapping wings like a bird. Would you not be getting better results by using algorithms instead of simulating via spaghetti coding a neural net that only exists because gigahertz chips did not exist when it evolved ? I mean computers kick ass if they know what they are doing. Only problem is you need a programmer to write new code each time you have to solve a new problem. If you can have a master algorithm that rewrites itself you can eliminate this problem and potentially create a thinking machine that can do anything humans can and do it better.
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