Books to Avoid

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2003-01-27 07:50am

IRG CommandoJoe wrote:How can anything cyberpunk be great? Ugh, I just can't stand cyberpunk. Who the hell likes that shit?

Me. And a lot of people I know in real life.

And no, I don't care what you think about us

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-01-27 11:07am

Didn't The Yosemite Bear once describe the Gor novels by John Norman as quite bad?? Of course, I've never read one, but from what I've heard about them, I'd probably be unable to enjoy one.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-01-27 11:12am

The bible should be a mandatory read in elementary school, along with an explanation as to why it is a vile book. We'd have more atheists that way.

Too bad we in America have that little bit about 'seperation of church and state'.

Right! Back on topic.

Anything by Terry Goodkind. Gah. When the revolution comes, Goodkind will burn in a furnace fueled by the shittiness of his own books...

Captain tycho · Post by **Captain tycho** » 2003-01-27 06:06pm

Exonerate wrote:Animorphs series. Aliens invade, Animorphs kick ass, narrowly escape. Rinse, repeat, shine.

I disagree. Yes, it was repetitive, but they were well done and interesting.
Plus they were meant for pre-teens.

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2003-01-27 06:11pm

PeZook wrote:
IRG CommandoJoe wrote:How can anything cyberpunk be great? Ugh, I just can't stand cyberpunk. Who the hell likes that shit?
Me. And a lot of people I know in real life.

And no, I don't care what you think about us

Hmm...maybe I'm getting this confused...what exactly is cyberpunk? Isn't it those guys in futuristic movies made in the 80's that have stupid crazy hair and are just disgusting lowlives? Or are they like hackers or something? Whenever I hear the phrase cyberpunks, I always think of those guys in the BTTF II movie that chase Marty on the hoverboards. lol

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2003-01-27 06:15pm

http://www.well.com/conf/mirrorshades/cpunk.html

Aha...so it has many definitions. Well, you know the type I hate.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2003-01-27 06:19pm

The Mars Trilogy by K.S. Robinson.
Avoid. At. All. Costs.

Never read anything that boring in my entire life (although Hopcroft/Ulman's "Introduction to Automata Theory, Languages, and Computation" really came close).

A honorary mentioning goes to Lord of the Rings.

Malecoda · Post by **Malecoda** » 2003-01-27 06:22pm

IRG CommandoJoe wrote:Can I answer on behalf of a very large percentage of SD.net's community?

The Bible.

That would be wrong. Know thy enemy. If you can stomach the prose...

Hell, why don't we just treat the bible for what it is? It's JUST a book. Some of it's well-written. Some of it sucks. It's no different from Michener!

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-01-27 06:23pm

A honorary mentioning goes to Lord of the Rings

Prepare to burn in the cleansing thermonuclear fires of the world's atomic arsenal.

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2003-01-27 06:24pm

And the fires that made the ring, biatch!

Malecoda · Post by **Malecoda** » 2003-01-27 06:26pm

IRG CommandoJoe wrote:
PeZook wrote:
IRG CommandoJoe wrote:How can anything cyberpunk be great? Ugh, I just can't stand cyberpunk. Who the hell likes that shit?
Me. And a lot of people I know in real life.

And no, I don't care what you think about us
Hmm...maybe I'm getting this confused...what exactly is cyberpunk? Isn't it those guys in futuristic movies made in the 80's that have stupid crazy hair and are just disgusting lowlives? Or are they like hackers or something? Whenever I hear the phrase cyberpunks, I always think of those guys in the BTTF II movie that chase Marty on the hoverboards. lol

Check out The Girl Who was Plugged In. It's a short story, I think by William Gibson. He's been credited as the pioneer of cyberpunk. But I disagree with that assessment. I think the first cyberpunk novel would be Caidin's Cyborg. [Edit: poorly phrased. That would be Cyborg by Martin Caidin] It's a great story that got turned into a total shitfest TV show that I loved when I was a kid: The 6 Million dollar Man. Seriously, the book is superior reading. Personally, I didn't like The Girl Who was Plugged In, but it IS a good example of cyberpunk.

I can't define cyberpunk. I think it's a stupid word. It seems to be written by neo-deconstructivist gnostic loons who can't write a natural-sounding sentence. I think it's merely sci-fi and "cyberpunk" sounds like a marketing buzzword from the git-go.

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2003-01-27 06:30pm

Plugged in, eh? Plugged into the Matrix? lol

Malecoda · Post by **Malecoda** » 2003-01-27 06:32pm

IRG CommandoJoe wrote:Plugged in, eh? Plugged into the Matrix? lol

The Matrix, yeah, that would be one of those.

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2003-01-27 06:33pm

The Matrix is "cyberpunk"? Jesus, this means cyberpunk could be anything.

Captain tycho · Post by **Captain tycho** » 2003-01-27 06:34pm

Dahak wrote:The Mars Trilogy by K.S. Robinson.
Avoid. At. All. Costs.

Never read anything that boring in my entire life (although Hopcroft/Ulman's "Introduction to Automata Theory, Languages, and Computation" really came close).

A honorary mentioning goes to Lord of the Rings.

WTF!!
BURN IN THE FIRES OF MOUNT DOOM HERETIC!
MAY YOU TESTICLES BE RIPPED OUT BY A RABID DONKEY!
MAY YOUR (oh, dammit, must think of something...)

Malecoda · Post by **Malecoda** » 2003-01-27 06:35pm

IRG CommandoJoe wrote:The Matrix is "cyberpunk"? Jesus, this means cyberpunk could be anything.

Hmm, bears further research.... done by you, of course.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-01-27 06:36pm

IRG CommandoJoe wrote:The Matrix is "cyberpunk"? Jesus, this means cyberpunk could be anything.

Aha! You lose sucka. You know you like cyberpunk, as I do. Admit to the healing powers of it my friends! it'll cure what ales ya!

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2003-01-27 06:36pm

Ah, screw it. Now I'll just pass off cyberpunk as a meaningless phrase.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-01-27 06:37pm

IRG CommandoJoe wrote:Ah, screw it. Now I'll just pass off cyberpunk as a meaningless phrase.

The first stage is always denial...

Malecoda · Post by **Malecoda** » 2003-01-27 06:41pm

Well, how can you say The Matrix isn't cyberpunk, if you'd never read any cyberpunk and don't know what it's like?

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2003-01-27 06:41pm

Welp, there are a few grudges I have against The Matrix. First off, I don't find Trinity remotely attractive and I don't think other people do, but since she's the The Matrix girl, people say she's hot. I dunno, maybe it is just me. Secondly, there's a scene which makes no sense at all. The part where the helicopter smashes into the building, but the building bends in before exploding. WTF is that? If computers were powerful enough to generate an entire universe that people live in that is an exact duplicate of the real world, why would that happen? I'm sure if some computers that complex exists, they'd be able to accurately simulate real physics. Some more things...why does the Matrix kill you physically and not just mentally screw you up? There is no logical explanation why whenver Neo got hurt you actually see him getting beat up in his chair. Makes no sense. The people that were killed in the Matrix should have just been brain dead or insane or something. Not actually have physical damage.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-01-27 06:45pm

IRG CommandoJoe wrote:Welp, there are a few grudges I have against The Matrix. First off, I don't find Trinity remotely attractive and I don't think other people do, but since she's the The Matrix girl, people say she's hot. I dunno, maybe it is just me.

You can hardly dismiss cyberpunk on the fact that you don't find the girl hot. (btu frankly either do I).

Secondly, there's a scene which makes no sense at all. The part where the helicopter smashes into the building, but the building bends in before exploding. WTF is that? If computers were powerful enough to generate an entire universe that people live in that is an exact duplicate of the real world, why would that happen? I'm sure if some computers that complex exists, they'd be able to accurately simulate real physics.

Thats because Neo is the one, he can bend the Matrix to his will. For christs sake he can fly goddamnit!

Some more things...why does the Matrix kill you physically and not just mentally screw you up? There is no logical explanation why whenver Neo got hurt you actually see him getting beat up in his chair. Makes no sense. The people that were killed in the Matrix should have just been brain dead or insane or something. Not actually have physical damage.

To quote Morpheus "Your mind makes it real." Something along th elines of it being so real your brain can't tell the difference.

Malecoda · Post by **Malecoda** » 2003-01-27 06:56pm

DGG, ya beat me to it.

Commando, I don't particularly find Trinity all that hot either (but you know, I'd give 'er the goo).

But anyway, none of that speaks to the issue of whether The Matrix is or isn't CP, and if it is, that does not mean that CP could be "just about anything". I did my time and read my CP--a writing style I found unpleasant-- for a class, and I suggest you do the same.

Now, the Matrix is (I think) based on a Gibson short story. I don't remember what it was called, but it kind of sucked. Let me see... Oh yeah, you can find it and The Girl Who Was (or was it "wasn't"?) Plugged In and some others in the textbook we used, which was an anthology of short stories and essays. It was called Literature, Technology, and Society, and it was edited by Cynthia Selfe.

I didn't like any of it, but that's bec reading abt Philosophy of Technology tends to bite balls. I don't mean to take away from the fact that there are, after all, some decent stories and well-known authors in there.

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2003-01-27 07:12pm

Some more things...why does the Matrix kill you physically and not just mentally screw you up?

While playing FPS games like Aliens Vs. Predator, I've caught myself ducking to the side when something was coming at me as if that would somehow make my character onscreen evade the rocket flying at his face. That's on a little 17" computer monitor: imagine if my brain couldn't tell I wasn't actually creeping around on the surface of LV-426 with xenomorphs trying to chew off my face. That's how I'd interpret that scene: Neo's brain is so locked into what's going on that his body is reacting as if being punched, despite the lack of physical impact. Another analogy would be Morpheus's comment about "have you ever had a dream that was so real, you couldn't tell the difference?" I have: I've woken up from a dream where I was trying to kick something and woke up because my heel came back down on the edge of the bed hard enough to hurt and wake me up.

Back on topic: I second the vote on the Mars trilogy. I skimmed "Red Mars" and fell asleep reading it. Any book written by Dale Brown also would get my vote. Isaac Asimov is also on the list for having some of the most two-dimensional characters I've ever seen (I think Mark Rogers hit the nail on the head in "Samurai Cat" when he described Asimov as "Master of many forms and interesting in none of them.")

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2003-01-27 08:18pm

Captain tycho wrote:
Dahak wrote:The Mars Trilogy by K.S. Robinson.
Avoid. At. All. Costs.

Never read anything that boring in my entire life (although Hopcroft/Ulman's "Introduction to Automata Theory, Languages, and Computation" really came close).

A honorary mentioning goes to Lord of the Rings.
WTF!!
BURN IN THE FIRES OF MOUNT DOOM HERETIC!
MAY YOU TESTICLES BE RIPPED OUT BY A RABID DONKEY!
MAY YOUR (oh, dammit, must think of something...)

Well, LotR lacks character description. While Tolien managed to build a very believable world with detailed history, I just can't get myself to care for his characters ecause of their total lack of personality. They are merely vehicles to tell his history with, not characters in a caring sense.
That, and he wrote Tom Bombadil...