nBSG - partial review + a few newbie questions....

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nBSG - partial review + a few newbie questions....

Post by Faqa »

Due to a lot of spare time on my hands while on-base(plus a stern letter from teh Intrawebz that my Geek Licence was on the verge of being revoked), I recently started marathon viewings of Battlestar Galactica for the very first time. Thus far, I've gotten up to the end of season 2(which means I will discuss spoilers from up to that point without micro-text, FAIR WARNING for any other nBSG noobs).

First off, impressions - the series is highly overrated, but in the same way that the new Batman movie is overrated. Which is to say, it's not The Second Coming. Also suffering from the same flaw of underlining in every second of the show that it is Serious Business.

However, it's still a very good series, and clearly run by some passionate folks. Not to mention a terrific collection of actors.

Some more impressive points, as I see them:

- Starbuck. Not so much her initial character which was basically Action Sue plus what I understand are a few characteristics from her original namesake. Her angsty personality in season 1 was also nothing really refreshing. No, what I admire is the direction her character took in season 2. Once the writers realized they'd created an Action Sue with a No Consequences Ever licence, what did they do?

They deconstructed her. Completely. Over the course of season 2, I saw Starbuck change into a wreck of her former self, professionally and emotionally. Instead of ignoring her overwanked badassery, the writers asked "What this badassery is all she really has?" and followed it up with "What would happen if she ever lost it?". And so, in the course of two masterful episodes, she did. She lost her edge, she lost her focus, she lost her wank.

And in the process, created an unforgettable character. Bravo, says I. Although she looked to be climbing back on her feet by the end of her year on New Caprica.

- The "Lay Down Your Burdens" season finale. Holy shit, SOMEBODY doesn't give a crap about playing it safe. They could've easily gotten two more seasons out of the 'flying around' status quo of the first two seasons. Certainly there were enough plot threads to do so. Instead they chose to stage this plot. Where humanity is, for the most part, already downtrodden and lost, with only a small core fleet remaining.

This reminds me somewhat of reading the later books in the Ender's Game series. Like the weird philosophy they preach or not, the author is clearly trying to say something, something new. Same thing here. I'm not really sure I like this whole 'jump a year forward into a junkie apocalyptic future' bit, but it's clearly a creative choice on the writer's part. I can't imagine a network exec choosing to break the formula in such a fashion. And the writers have been pretty good thus far. So I am intrigued.

- "Downloaded"(the Cylon POV ep) may count as the best POV switch episode... ever. Hilarious(every time head-Baltar was on the screen, I giggled maniacally) and deep at the same time, you get a genuinely intriguing look at how the Cylons tick. The fact that it managed to genuinely de-sympathize the human freedom fighters was quite shocking, at least for me. It's things like that which truly make a POV switch.

- The character-driven nature of the show is a joy. OK, so some ideas pan out and some don't(not since Heroes S1's "sword quest" have I seen such a meandering mess as the "strike team on Kobol" episodes), but the point is, the writers know that PEOPLE drive this show, not space battles. From the unsettling ruthlessness of Laura Roslin to the bumbling XO Tigh, the cast of characters is fairly well-realized and feel fairly real(well, Tigh and Lee Adama seem to have lost out on the developement lottery lately, but they're still fairly good).

Of special note is Gaius Baltar, who is so utterly the opposite of anything I would have expected of such a character template. Finally, a mad scientist who actually veers more to the side of "mad" without being one-dimensional about it! And of course, his illusionary girlfriend. A measure of how cool his character is is the fact that 90% of the plots involving him eventually fizzled out(especially the whole Pegasus-Six thing)... and I didn't care. The character was so fun to watch on screen that I didn't give a crap that the laws of continuity swirled around him going "Wheeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!"(re: Pegasus-Six, Cylon detection, Laura Roslin's suspicions.....).

Although to a larger extent, the show seems to be prone to stretching continuity whenever any of the main characters is in danger. Got cancer? Can't ignore it? It's OK, Cylons totally have magic healing blood, lol.
Did your main character get shot at point-blank range by a killer robot? She totally missed, and a few untrained nurses can keep him alive for WEEKS until a doctor comes in to fix it! And I suppose I needn't mention Starbuck, who for a while was a walking attractant for last-second saves.

It should matter, really, it should. But in this show, it doesn't. Because you want so very much to continue seeing the characters that you will swallow it. Or at least I did.

- Outside those instances, however, the show DOES have fairly tight continuity. Very few episodes seem to be "plot-of-the-week" format, and outside of Gaius Baltar, very few plot threads are ever left hanging. The first half of season 1, in particular, seemed to be almost a continuous sequence.

As I said, overall a strong show, well-plotted and passionately made. This is someone's baby.

All that said, I actually have a few continuity questions that I hoped the wise residents of SDN could clear up:

- A season 1 plot involved Starbuck tearfully coming clean that she'd as good as murdered Bill Adama's other son, Zak, by certifying him "fit to fly" when he wasn't. She was sleeping with him on the side, and let that cloud her judgement.

Well and good, until one of Adama's flashback reveals the following - that not only did he KNOW that his son was screwing his flight instructor, but that apparantly he didn't care. Given Adama's straight-arrow approach to military regulations(not to mention the fact that Zak was openly about such matters), I am forced to conclude that there is no military regulation forbidding such a liasion. Read that again.

THERE IS APPARANTLY NO REGULATION AGAINST A TEACHER SLEEPING WITH A STUDENT. WTF? Any training or educational organization has such rules in place, PRECISELY for such occurences. What kind of crappy outfit was the Colonial Fleet running before the war? Am I missing something here?

- Skin-Cylon physical strength. Is it just me, or does this vary quite a lot? My initial impression is that human-looking Cylons might be able to fool detectors, but that they were actually very much augmented. This is supported by Caprica-Six shielding Gaius with her body in the pilot, which apparantly is sufficient to protect him from some very powerful airstrikes. Not to mention Helo-Sharon's seeming tirelessness while pretending to flee Cylon pursuit on Caprica. And Caprica-Six tossing Starbuck around like a ragdoll in the S1 finale.

But then we get to season 2 which is... odd. Suddenly, Sharon can be subdued and choked to death by an angry Bill Adama. She can be raped by one middle-aged Lieutenant in "Pegasus". She is held by restraints that a Cylon agent in Season 1 expected to be able to rip open with ease. A friend of mine suggested that perhaps, as the entire Three series was designed to be weaker than, say, a Six, for infiltration missions(witness a Six calling Sharon "little sister" when she wakes up in Downloaded) that Sharon was given a female reproductive system especially for her mission, and that that system came at the cost of many of the augmentations Cylon-humans usually have.

Is this even remotely the case?

- A short question this time - what the FUCK was up with Pegasus-Six? She and Baltar clearly had a plotline at the end of the Pegasus arc... then it went nowhere. Baltar went back to hanging out with head-Six and Pegasus-Six got a grand total of maybe 15 minutes of screen-time overall, none of which made much sense. Until she blew herself up, which I also didn't get.

Ummmm.... right. I hope this post has enough substance to belong here instead of in testing. And that these issues have not been debated into the ground already.... :P
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Post by Brother-Captain Gaius »

I hate to rain on your parade... but unfortunately the series goes downhill at record speeds going into season 3. It recovers a little toward the latter half and then levels out in season 4, but by then the damage is done.

I actually vastly preferred season 1 Starbuck, for reasons which may become apparent to you as you go through season 3. Likewise for most of the characters in fact - almost all the major and supporting characters are likable and have interesting traits in season 1 and to some extent season 2, and then those likable traits are swiftly replaced with the urge to see them die horribly in season 3, with only a handful of exceptions.

Weep for what they did to Lee Adama.
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Re: nBSG - partial review + a few newbie questions....

Post by LadyTevar »

Faqa wrote:- A short question this time - what the FUCK was up with Pegasus-Six? She and Baltar clearly had a plotline at the end of the Pegasus arc... then it went nowhere. Baltar went back to hanging out with head-Six and Pegasus-Six got a grand total of maybe 15 minutes of screen-time overall, none of which made much sense. Until she blew herself up, which I also didn't get.
She had been mass-gang-raped for nearly a year, as well as whatever other tortures the Pegasus crew thought up for her. She couldn't forget it, it was now a permanent part of her memories. Even if she Downloaded, that horror would stay with her.

She blew herself up, far from any Rejuvenation Ship, to forget those memories. Taking humans and ships out with her was just a last "FRAK YOU".

Although I'm still not sure why she slept with Baltar. I do know that at the end she hated herself for it, because he was seeing/fucking Caprica or HeadSix, not her.
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Post by Anguirus »

Nonsense, says I. The middle of Season 3 is kind of lame, but the first four episodes are the best of the whole series IMO, and late Season 3-Season 4 is darn good.

As for Cylon strength, in general it is exceptional while still remaining within the limits of a human frame. Sharon does get raped, but she's being held down in a room with two armed men. And at the time, she's pregnant. Plus, at the beginning when they really don't trust her she has some very significant restraints on all the time. But yeah, all the Cylons have reproductive systems, and it's something of a mystery to them why they don't work. More feats of strength occur in later seasons, but in general it seems that Six is the most badass Cylon physically.

Oh, and Pegasus-Six (her name is actually Gina) gets a good fleshing-out in BSG: Razor.
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Re: nBSG - partial review + a few newbie questions....

Post by DesertFly »

Faqa wrote:Did your main character get shot at point-blank range by a killer robot? She totally missed, and a few untrained nurses can keep him alive for WEEKS until a doctor comes in to fix it! And I suppose I needn't mention Starbuck, who for a while was a walking attractant for last-second saves.
Actually, Adama was only holding on with the nurses' help for a couple of hours. It stretched over a few episodes, but the time of those episodes wasn't very long.

Another character later gets shot and has to go without proper help for much longer, with bad consequences.
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Post by Sarevok »


Oh, and Pegasus-Six (her name is actually Gina) gets a good fleshing-out in BSG: Razor.
She is a lot more beautiful in it too. :)

I never understood why they almost always featured the fugly blonde look for the Sixes.
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Post by tim31 »

I'm going to offer the opinion that not all of us feel that the series 'goes downhill' in the third season; although I agree that they could have condensed the storylines into a little as half the episodes they aired.

In any case, keep watching, because answers are coming, however slowly(not as slowly as Lost for context).
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Post by Sarevok »

I am with tim31. Without going into spoilers the central themes of the series changed. Many bash it out of reflex. But I feel the move from "teh grittyness" towards polished episodes with mythological themes was for good.
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Post by Faqa »

She had been mass-gang-raped for nearly a year, as well as whatever other tortures the Pegasus crew thought up for her. She couldn't forget it, it was now a permanent part of her memories. Even if she Downloaded, that horror would stay with her.

She blew herself up, far from any Rejuvenation Ship, to forget those memories. Taking humans and ships out with her was just a last "FRAK YOU".
Well yeah, suicide was her initial motivation, but it seemed to me that the show was trying to do something more complex with her. Baltar was able to reject head-Six, whatever that really means, for her sake. She broke through his ego-driven fog. That's something. I thought she'd be his road back to something resembling sanity. Instead she just pushed him further over the edge.

Plus, I thought the whole point of her killing Caine was a sort of catharsis so as to avoid killing herself? She was in hiding, and she seemed to have an agenda.

I suppose the end conclusion is that she was simply manipulating Gaius into getting her a way to blend suicide and revenge, but that idea seems rather... inadequate, though I can't quantify how.
Although I'm still not sure why she slept with Baltar. I do know that at the end she hated herself for it, because he was seeing/fucking Caprica or HeadSix, not her.
To be fair, she IS Caprica/HeadSix, to some extent. If we go by Sharon's example(who remembered every detail of Boomer's life), Cylons get their memories automatically updated to account for new downloads.
Actually, Adama was only holding on with the nurses' help for a couple of hours. It stretched over a few episodes, but the time of those episodes wasn't very long.

Another character later gets shot and has to go without proper help for much longer, with bad consequences.
A couple hours? Surely longer than that? Tigh had time to declare martial law, dive off the wagon, run low on supplies and get civilians killed in an avoidable fashion while Adama was incapacitated.

But yeah, the Kobol battles at least looked like someone had hired a real military consultant for them.
Sharon does get raped, but she's being held down in a room with two armed men. And at the time, she's pregnant.
Oh, I get that Sharon had no chance of fighting off her rapist, given the presence of guns in the room(although again, a Cylon prisoner in S1 expected to be able to pull off a similar feat against Starbuck, but he never got the chance to), but it seemed as though she was being forced down while fighting, which defies comprehension.

And Adama Sr trying to choke her? I know he's grappled hand-to-hand with Cylons before, but he still shouldn't be strong enough to physically overcome her, given previous Cylon feats.

(This seems like a good time to point out that the Pegasus arc was utterly disappointing. After a brief attempt at being original, they fell back to making everyone evil Mirror Universe clones of Galactica).
But yeah, all the Cylons have reproductive systems, and it's something of a mystery to them why they don't work
Wait, wat? It's obvious they HAVE trouble, given that they're setting up rape farms for human females, but exactly how did they manage to get the plumbing so wrong? That it's a needless impediment for a robot looking human is one thing, but failing so spectacularly at one of the human body's primary systems is odd, given how well they've duplicated everything else. And only Sharon's equipment working? When every other Three is identical to her, biologically? Oh, I dearly want to see the writers wank their way out of this one.

As for the comments on Season 3, it seems the show will not be falling back on the status quo anytime soon. For better or worse, that's good to know.... :P

Oh right, one final question - the glowy spine thing CapricaSix and Sharon had early on - that IS just a stylistic thing the writers came up with, yes? It was not evident in Baltar and PegasusSix's encounter, and it seems retarded as a part of continuity, anyway.
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Post by Anguirus »

I suppose the end conclusion is that she was simply manipulating Gaius into getting her a way to blend suicide and revenge, but that idea seems rather... inadequate, though I can't quantify how.
I sympathize. Sometimes they drop a story arc off a bridge if they can't seem to develop it. Deleted scenes showed Gina acting as more of a Cylon Fifth Column (working with D'Anna), but that was dropped and the writers probably figured her best use was to blow up and trigger the Cylon attack on New Caprica.

Which, let's be fair, is a REALLY important story arc.

They also seem to have dropped several Season 1 mysteries (Shelly Godfrey anyone?) so Gina's treatment could have been worse.
Tigh had time to declare martial law, dive off the wagon, run low on supplies and get civilians killed in an avoidable fashion while Adama was incapacitated.
All of that was after Cottle showed up.
but it seemed as though she was being forced down while fighting, which defies comprehension.
It's probably just a cheat to ratchet up the tension to be honest. On the other hand, I don't recall any of the Sharons busting out a crazy feat of strength so it may just not be a feature of that model.
And Adama Sr trying to choke her? I know he's grappled hand-to-hand with Cylons before, but he still shouldn't be strong enough to physically overcome her, given previous Cylon feats.
She wasn't fighting back.
It's obvious they HAVE trouble, given that they're setting up rape farms for human females, but exactly how did they manage to get the plumbing so wrong? That it's a needless impediment for a robot looking human is one thing, but failing so spectacularly at one of the human body's primary systems is odd, given how well they've duplicated everything else. And only Sharon's equipment working? When every other Three is identical to her, biologically?
These are all perfectly legitimate questions. However, and you probably won't like this, the idea advanced in "The Farm" that they require love to create a child is the most plausible one in-universe so far, given that all the evidence we have suggests that Cylons are identical to humans except for their nervous systems.

There are some interesting developments on this topic in later seasons, and no ironclad answer just yet.
Oh right, one final question - the glowy spine thing CapricaSix and Sharon had early on - that IS just a stylistic thing the writers came up with, yes? It was not evident in Baltar and PegasusSix's encounter, and it seems retarded as a part of continuity, anyway.
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Post by Gaidin »

Faqa wrote: A couple hours? Surely longer than that? Tigh had time to declare martial law, dive off the wagon, run low on supplies and get civilians killed in an avoidable fashion while Adama was incapacitated.

But yeah, the Kobol battles at least looked like someone had hired a real military consultant for them.
Adama was only in critical condition for a few hours with a bullet inside him. He was in a hospital bed for quite a bit longer recovering from surgery.
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