Underage sex and "Make a Wish" foundation

[ArmorPierce]

No reason not to. The law is there to protect children from exploitation. If he's going to die soon there is little to protect from exploitation.

And in the US, these laws have never been used to fuck over people who've done nothing ethically wrong, like charging a minor with exploitation for taking nude pictures of... herself.

Not saying you don't have a valid point, just saying that the legal system here is made up of blind, puritanical fuckwits.

If you are hiring a prostitute who has already done this in the past and will continue to be a prostitute in the future this doesn't put her into much more risk if it is done quietly.

[ArmorPierce]

If a girl really wants to do it I don't see a reason to do it for a girl neither.

[Darth Wong]

Is it possible for a governor to issue a pardon for crimes of this sort? If so, one idea would be to petition the governor. I would love to see the puritanical fundies floundering and spluttering as they try to explain why they should not grant a dying boy his last wish.

[Ender]

Put them on a plane to Thailand, take care of it that way.

As for the issues of long term harm of boys vs girls... the kid is going to die inside 4 years. In fact with make a wish, I thought you had to be ~1 year out to use it. So long term ham isn't an issue because there isn't going to be a long term.

[Trogdor]

Is it possible for a governor to issue a pardon for crimes of this sort?

I could be wrong, but I don't think it's possible for a governor to pre-emptively pardon someone for a crime they plan to commit. That said, I don't see why he can't just promise to issue a pardon after the deed is done.

I would love to see the puritanical fundies floundering and spluttering as they try to explain why they should not grant a dying boy his last wish.

Actually, I think I have a pretty good idea what the fundies would say already.

"The boy will go to hell if he dies happy...er, I mean, gets this sinful last wish!!!1one!"

[Johonebesus]

Not to mention that ultimately the minor does not have the legal authority to make final decisions for himself. If the parents don't want the dying kid to see a Disney film because they think it's evil, then they have the last word. Even if the authorities aren't initially inclined to pursue the matter, the parents could insist on it. That's what happened in Australia when something much like this scenario played out (though I don't remember the ultimate outcome).

Fundies don't flounder when arguing against giving the HPV vaccine to minors, or filling legal prescriptions for regular birth control for adults. What on earth makes you think this will cause them any problems? Dying a virgin has traditionally been one of the highest honors for a Christian.

[Singular Intellect]

I must admit I find it somewhat interesting that despite the illegal nature of the scenario and the OP's assertion that most people would consider it immoral, the general consensus here seems to be that denying his wish isn't a viable option.

[Darth Wong]

I must admit I find it somewhat interesting that despite the illegal nature of the scenario and the OP's assertion that most people would consider it immoral, the general consensus here seems to be that denying his wish isn't a viable option.

Of course, since we are not composed of the American population-standard mix of 50% fundie. But I suspect that even the fundies would have trouble condemning a 14 year old boy who wants to have sex before he dies. Most of their tactics against sexuality rely on character assassination, ie- they deal with abortion by always assuming that the female is a serial abortionist slut. How are they going to run a character assassination on this 14 year old kid, and how much sympathy are they going to get?

[Metatwaddle]

Most of their tactics against sexuality rely on character assassination, ie- they deal with abortion by always assuming that the female is a serial abortionist slut. [size=0]Meta note: Of course, only fundies do this, never SDN members.[/size] How are they going to run a character assassination on this 14 year old kid, and how much sympathy are they going to get?

I suspect their tactic would be to vilify the person who decided to get the call girl and the call girl herself, not the kid. They'd say the call-girl-hirer must have cajoled the kid by saying "Come on, don't you want to have sex before you die?" and the call girl must be immoral by virtue of being a call girl.

[Darth Wong]

Most of their tactics against sexuality rely on character assassination, ie- they deal with abortion by always assuming that the female is a serial abortionist slut. [size=0]Meta note: Of course, only fundies do this, never SDN members.[/size] How are they going to run a character assassination on this 14 year old kid, and how much sympathy are they going to get?

I suspect their tactic would be to vilify the person who decided to get the call girl and the call girl herself, not the kid. They'd say the call-girl-hirer must have cajoled the kid by saying "Come on, don't you want to have sex before you die?" and the call girl must be immoral by virtue of being a call girl.

That would not work anywhere near as well as their usual tactics, because nobody is going to believe that somebody needed to pressure a 14 year old boy to want sex with a woman before he dies. People find it all too easy to believe in these stupid stereotypes of serial slut abortionists.

[Darth Raptor]

I must admit I find it somewhat interesting that despite the illegal nature of the scenario and the OP's assertion that most people would consider it immoral, the general consensus here seems to be that denying his wish isn't a viable option.

The law in this case is completely arbitrary and has little bearing on right and wrong. The idea that the boy could be harmed or victimized by this is absurd on its face, as anyone who was once a fourteen year old boy would know.

[Metatwaddle]

That would not work anywhere near as well as their usual tactics, because nobody is going to believe that somebody needed to pressure a 14 year old boy to want sex with a woman before he dies.

Well, yeah, but few people have ever accused fundamentalists of being smart in general, let alone about sex. Maybe they're not quite dumb enough to say Make-A-Wish talked him into it. At any rate, I envision a screaming headline of "MAKE-A-WISH PAYS PEOPLE TO HAVE SEX WITH CHILDREN".

People find it all too easy to believe in these stupid stereotypes of serial slut abortionists.

Funny you should mention that; I recently saw that happening right on this very web forum! I thought we were a bunch of degenerate libertines. I'm disappointed.

[Kanastrous]

There's zero question that within 30 minutes the usual right-wing media cranks will be shrieking about Make-a-Wish suddenly having become the most insidious threat to American morality, society, and safety.

[CmdrWilkens]

There's zero question that within 30 minutes the usual right-wing media cranks will be shrieking about Make-a-Wish suddenly having become the most insidious threat to American morality, society, and safety.

Because they WILL pretend that granting this wish means an automatic reversal (14 year old female with adult male) or that it means saying okay to 9, 10, or 11 year olds requesting the same thing.

That aside age of consent isn't something that most states really think long and hard about. As a concept it is one of the few legal ideas that has a bit more firm grounding in reality (in as much as mental and sexual development don't follow on equal paths) but in execution most states subscribe to funide "protect the children" screeching. The problem becomes that if the kids resides in such a state I'm pretty sure its a federal offense to cross state lines with the intent of engagin in sexual acts with a minor that would be illegal in one state but not in the other. Since its a federal crime this would require a presidential pardon. Now the President could certainly do this quietly enough (or even just order the AG not to prosecute if he has someone as toadyish as Mukaseky or Gonzalez) but that's still just the practicality standpoint.

So the issues with this scenario are mostly ones of practicality, the "how" of the wish would be a matter of a huge degree of wrangling but from an ethical standpoint I see no obvious harm to the boy, nor any harm to the woman aside from legal trouble which may plauge her, so no reason on matters of pure ethics to reject the wish. Moreover the happiness for the boy from getting his wish in addition to the relatively obvious physical pleasure does seem to be a rather ethically worthwhile goal in terms of easing a dying person's suffering.

[Stuart]

Well, yeah, but few people have ever accused fundamentalists of being smart in general, let alone about sex. Maybe they're not quite dumb enough to say Make-A-Wish talked him into it. At any rate, I envision a screaming headline of "MAKE-A-WISH PAYS PEOPLE TO HAVE SEX WITH CHILDREN".

Then Make-A-Wish sues for libel/slander/defamation of character, whatever seems good. The evidence has all been burned, the lady in question has vanished back into her world with a pocket full of cash and everybody swears blind it never happened. Given the general distaste and disgust journalists have earned themselves, the jury won't be out for more than five minutes before they come back, finding for the plaintiffs and awarding Make-a-Wish multi-million damages. I'll even lay a bet that every member of the jury will guess that the story is true but find for teh plaintiff anyway.

You know, thinking about this, I wouldn't be surprised if this has actually happened and it was dealt with exactly the way I suggested, quietly hire a girl from out-of-town, let her do her job and then pay her in cash (good addition that) and fly her back home. The Bangkok option works as well but is a bit more obvious (although the 'cover wish" could be that the kid wants to see a real Thai Boxing fight or something),

[XaLEv]

I read a news story about something of this sort years ago, which now seems to exist only on Freerepublic and the Internet Archive.

http://web.archive.org/web/200112300910 ... sex23.html

[Kanastrous]

This thread made me wonder...suppose that the dying minor was a girl, and that she was serious and rational in expressing a desire to experience sex before her death?

Within the framework of how I think Americans treat sex, this would lead to a lot of unpleasant questions. Like, do we grant that expressed intent the identical consideration we would, from a boy? Is this an area in which gender equality should be considered relevant, at all? What about the act, itself? Should her partner (or assailant, I think (?), from a legal perspective) be liable to prosecution, or pardon? What if the partner she chose, was not himself a minor?

I don't know whether I should be embarassed or proud, to admit that just bringing the idea up is uncomfortable. But it does not seem like an immense stretch, and it feels real problematic.

[Junghalli]

This thread made me wonder...suppose that the dying minor was a girl, and that she was serious and rational in expressing a desire to experience sex before her death?

I don't see why the situation would fundamentally be any different.

[Ariphaos]

Is it possible for a governor to issue a pardon for crimes of this sort? If so, one idea would be to petition the governor. I would love to see the puritanical fundies floundering and spluttering as they try to explain why they should not grant a dying boy his last wish.

Sorta makes me wish this happened while Ventura was governor here. I'm not sure of another governor in recent history that would.

[Darth Raptor]

I don't see why the situation would fundamentally be any different.

The situation's not, but the actors are, or so the argument goes. I'm unconvinced myself, but most draw a distinction between fucking and getting fucked; and, to a much greater extent, between boys (who are horny from the age of sperm) and girls (who, if they're horny, something must be wrong with them*). I'm inclined to agree with you, but remain noncommittal on the grounds that I'm neither a psychologist nor female.

*This is not an opinion I hold personally.

[Galvatron]

If this made the news, it would quickly turn into Terri Schiavo all over again. The kid would literally have the entire Red States of Jesusland cockblocking him and he'd die a virgin as surely as Darkstar will.

[loomer]

Personally, if for some reason I was the appointed delegate for this, I would have only one ethical option. Slip him a few hundred dollars, point him to a good hotel, and find him a talented, attractive hooker (disease free, in this case, is fortunately not a requirement unless it interferes. Though it's still a plus.). Possibly even his favourite pornstar, if she's doing escorting (and quite a few do.)

While to do otherwise would not be ethical and go against my job, this is the only way to reach a midground whereby no one gets sued. hopefully.

[Solauren]

Alot of parents, at least parents that are not mentally *cked in the head, wouldn't deny the boy his last wish.

The only real concern would be, if handled quietly, some-one outside the 'immediate circle' finding out and raising hell.


Of course, there would be nothing cooler then a dying 14 year old, lying in a bed, some hot chick standing byside him saying; "Dude, I might be dying, but you need to get laid worse then I ever did."

[Timotheus]

I think what Tevar is saying is that you could find a teenaged girl who looked like an adult to have sex with him. Claiming she's 18 isn't exactly going to hurt his mind or violate his wish if he believes it, and 17 year olds can regularly pass for much older than 18.

Small problem. In many if not most states if an adult talks to a minor about sex they can quite quickly get themselves nailed by our countries over zealous law enforcement for solicitation of a minor.