[40K] Rogue Star: Analyiss and discussion thread

[Connor MacLeod]

I marked this as 40K, because I'm not sure how many people have read it.

OH well, you thought I was done with the Tau wank after Kill Team right? Wrong! There's still Hoare's new Rogue Trader series, two novels so far being released.

Overall this was a rather average, if not mediocre novel by 40K standards. Mind, it had promise, and its better than, say, Legacy of the Force, but its still not a great one.

The novel deals mainly with a Rogue Trader who comes into his own during the events surrounding the Damocles Gulf crusade. So yes, this deals with tau. Which is where some of the problems lie. The chief problems I think is that there's a fair bit of "tau wank" in the novels (the kind of "Tau are superior to the Imperium, their philosohpy is great, etc.") nonsense you hear most Tau fans spew. The other problem is that the main cahracter seems to be kind of a Gary Stu., I get the impression that were it not for his presence in the Damocles gulf (and later the Crusade) the whole thing would have failed from the get-go. He's the tatctical genius, he's the one playing the politics to get stuff done, etc. It gets tiresome, as does his family squabbles.

The last irksome thing is that Space Combat in this novel is, to put it bluntly, absurd. You thought 40K combat had age of sail qualities before? This novel takes the "age of sail in space" principle far too litearlly. Ragnes of kilometers or less.. hundreds of meteres even. Hoare doesnt seem to have a concept of scale in space - don't expect to see "light seconds", "light minutes" or even "light hours" or god forbid AU mentioned. ITs as bad as Stackpole's "literal translation of the X-wing video games into a novel" approach.

Nonetheless, there are some interesting moments, and some interesting technical or other bits of infomration to be gleaned, and that is the main purpose of these threads. So, onwards with the analysis!

Page 7-8

Even in a space-faring culture in which vessels remained in service for centuries, even millenia, she was old.

Reference to a Rogue Trader heavy cruiser and its approximate age.

Page 8

Vacant-eyed and drooling, each monitored a single aspect of the vessel's running. Vessels such as the Oceanid relied on their like, for many tasks were beyond the abilities of a man to perform. Yet, over the years, the availability and quality of competent crewmen had diminished to such an extent that Lucian was forced to rely on servitors. Though essential in many roles, the hideous machine-corpse custodians were no substitute for a man when it came to obeying orders in a crisis. Each knew only its alloted purpose, and would remain tethered uncaring to its station even were it to burst into flames.

The Rogue Trader is required to rely on servitors rather than human crews to run the ships. Apparently servitors are a necessity on any warship for "many tasks" beyond human crews (either I would imagine repetitive technical tasks, crap jobs, or possibly ones that require the machine-like benefits of a servitors implants.) but there is a point of diminishing returns on their use, at least in Lucian's mind. (The trader in Eisenhorn would obviously disagree.)

This also gives us an indication of how common servitors are in usage, at least in noncombat roles.

Page 9

- retro thrusters are mounted in the armoured prow of the Oceanid.



Page 10

The titanic force of the deceleration caused Lucian's head to pitch forward. RAlid barely won his fight to remain standing.

"Station nine! Why aren't the compensators online?"

The servitor at station nine, the position responsible for monitoring the Oceanid's gravitic generators, opened its mouth and squealed a response in machine language. The engine pitch deepened and the bridge ligths flickered before Lucian felt the gravity field fluctuate, compensating for the deceleration.

A direct indication of Imperial starships having inertial/acceleration compensators (Gravitic devices)

Page 10

Every mariner, from the most veteran of ships' masters to the lowliest rating, was well versed in the tales of ships setting out, to arrive at their destinations mere weeks later yet having aged decades. Other tales told of vessels that had arrived many centuries late, having spent mere days within the warp, while others still told of vessels arriving before having even set out.

Mention (and well established in many cases elsewhere) of the perils and peculiarities of the Warp.

Page 12

There was a pause as the transmission beamed across a million kilometers of space, and then the simple reply.

I think this was meant to suggest lightspeed vox transmissions, but this could also hint at FTL comms given how its phrased (6 seconds or so might be a "pause", but it would, in my mind be a long one.

Page 14

- Lucian is six feet tall, which is considered "tall". Tall by whose standards, however, is a matter of opinion.

Page 14

As was ever the case with those who spent a lifetime traversing the space lanes, Lucian counted two ages. His objective age, that counted by the ever-constant universe was something approaching half a millenia. His subjective age, the years he actually noted the passing of, was one fifth that. Still, he appeared no older than half a century, for despite the downturn in his fortunes, he had access to surgical treaments about which the common subjects of the Imperium could only dream. Regular juvenat courses held back the years and maintained strength, ensuring that he would guide his dynasty through another century at least, so long as the Arcadius survived the next decade.

Page 14

- Stasis field in a small box, used to preserve family heirlooms.

Page 17

- Lucian wears a number of digital weapons, laser weapons fitted into the rings. Becomes important later, as he uses them.

According to Lucian few authorities in teh galaxy short of an "Inquisitor Lord or Space Marine Chapter Master," would demand that he divest himself of weapons (and even then he would expect them to ask politely.)

This also gives us an insight into the politics of the Imperium, and how Rogue Traders (in theory) rank. Of course, in practice the reality might be different. In the right situations even Space Marines can dictate to the Inquisition (or, as we'll learn later, so can Rogue Traders.) And, presumably, vice versa.


Page 17

- Nebula seem to interfere with "augur banks". Something tells me Mr Hoare has been watching too much Star Trek, but then again this is 40K, for all we know its a giant animate nebula with Chaos spawned intelligence.

Page 18

Lucian stood, savouring the moment as he prepared to hail Mundus Chasmata's outer defence monitor.

Orbital defence monitor of the planet the Rogue Traders are orbiting. For the life of me I can't remember why I quoted this.


Page 19

"Starboard battery aft! Open fire on lead target!"

Below decks, the mighty weaposn bank locked onto its target: The fast-moving raider closing in on the position the Rosetta had occupied minutes before. The master of the samller vessel evidently saw his coming fate, but a moment too late. The battery erupted in blinding fire, launching huge, high explosive projectiles across the gulf of space.

Lucian watched on the surveyor screen as the raider pitched to starboard, a last desperate attempt to avoid the Oceanid's wrath. It failed, as Lucian had seen it would. The salvo struck the samller vessel amidships, robbing it of forward momentum with such violence that it split into two, its entire prow tumbling forwards whilst its drive section sheered off at forty-five degrees. Even at this distance, the spectacle was impressive, as the plasma core at the heart of the engine cluster went critical, creating a second sun for a moment.

The broadside of the Oceanid has enough momentum to kill the forward momentum of a pirte vessel. Assuming it is roughly destroyer ro frigate size, it could be hundreds of thousands of tons (by 40K calcs) or more probably millions/tens of millions of tons (By calcs that don't rquire the ship to have an average density of styrofoam) And assuming a few km/s speed, this corresponds to a combined momentum somewhere between 2e11 kg*m/s (for a 100,000 ton ship) to 2e13 kg*m/s (for a 10 million ton ship), or more.

In terms of projectiles.. if we assume 100 tons of shell is flung at the enemy, the velocity is going to be between 2000 and 200,000 km/s. KE will be between 2e17 and 3e21 joules for those velocities and mass, but probably higher.

Page 20

- the raiders are identified as using frigates. Lucian's ships (two light cruisers and a heavy cruiser) is identified as a "small flotilla" This would tend to put them far more into the upper end of my calc scale, which indicates even a low end Rogue Trader frigate probably has multi-TT firepower (the KE isnt even the primary damage component.. the explosive yield ought to be comparable)


Page 21

- the Oceanid makes use of press-ganged crewers as well as servitors. They probably are the ones running the guns.

Page 22

Lucian activated the holograph, focusing on an area of space only a few thousand kilometres ahead.

...

"Helm, we're coming up on Chasmata's outer defense platform. AT Five hundred, yaw thirty so she passes us to portt at around fifty."

...

As the Oceanid ploughed on, the defence platform came into view off the port bow. Though not much larger than the rogue trader vessel, the platform bristled with weaponry, from lance batteries to torpedo tubes. The coms servitor had evidently succeeded in transmitting the correct signal. Had it not, those batteries of fearsome destruction would have been opening fire on the Oceanid

Instead, they opened fire on the raider. The captain of the raiding frigate was so intent upon his prey that he could not have seen his death approaching. It came quickly, in teh form of a mighty broadside, macro cannon shells obliterating the smaller vessel in the blink of an eye.

The implication here is that the defence platform hs a range of at least a few thousand km, and the shells it fires cross that distance in According to this site, an "eyeblink" would be roughly 3/10 to 4/10th of a second (a third to a half).. so the velocity would be in the hundreds or thosuands of km/s (roughly consistent with the calc above.)

Mind you, Hoare tends to be very inconsistent in space combat, so I'm th inking he didnt think much of this through.

Page 31

The world's population was just over the one billion mark, a figure consistent with many similar worlds. Lucian had visited agri-worlds farmed by machines whose human populations were counted in the hundreds, and Hive worlds where billions crowded into kilometres-high spires.

A mention of the scope of population in the Imperium. The world in question was (broadly) a "civilised" world for the most part, so we can assume the vast majority of those would be in the "billion" or so range. Disregarding agri and hive worlds, this means roughly half or more of the Imperium, which puts the total popualtion somewhere in the tens of quadrillions range (20 million or so civilised worlds with a billion populace each...) Nothing we didnt already know, but a little more confirmation doesn't hurt.

Page 31

One in ten adults was therefore required to serve in the world's Planetary Defence Force, an institution that had, on four recorded occasions in the last three centuries provided troops for the Imperial Guard.

This planet inducts ten percent of its population in the PDF, which means out of a population of 1 billion, there are 100 million troops. We dont know if this is a "common" approach, or if maybe its because its a frontier world, but assuming the ratio applied across the Imperium, the Guard would have 10% of the quadrillions of soldiers from the civilised world PDFs alone - or huundreds of trillions of troops.

Ten percecnt of a Hive world (hundreds of billions if not trillions of people) would be even scarier, probabl yputting the guard figures well into the quadrillions range.

Page 31

The planets of this lonely area were, by necessity it appeared, largely self-sufficient. They had little contact with the Imperium, and little to offer it in terms of resources.

There are worlds in the Imperium (even if just the frontier ones) that still practice great degrees of self-sufficiency. This probably has something to do with age. The longer a planet in the Imperium is colonised, the less of its own resourcecs it'll have (and the more liekly it is they've worn out the planet.. such as Hive and Forge worlds.)

Page 33

- Personal/household/Elite guards of the Lord Commander of the planet have carapace armour ("imported at great expense") PDF having carapace isnt new.. we've seen it in Sons of Fenris as well..


Page 37

Unlike the teeming billions of Imperial subjects crowding the million and more domains of the Emperor's rule, rogue traders had cause to escape the worlds of their birth and go forth to visit others. Most worlds in the Imperium were largely self-sufficient, or at most inter-dependent with others in the immediate region.

It was only the most priveleged who would ever leave his world, unless he was conscripted into the Imperial Guard and sent to fight some far-away war, never to return home again.

mention of "million and more domains" of the Empire. not sure if Domains means one planet or many planets.

Also, they indicate that most worlds in the Imperium are "self sufficient" or interact in the "lcoal level", which we may infer as being sector or sub-sector commerce (like in Dark Heresy, Eisenhorn, etc.)

Page 48

The stellar cluster that contained Luneberg's world, as well as the domains of several dozen other Imperial commanders boreded the gulf on its coreward side.

The size of the "cluster" the Rogue Traders are in. This is presumably close to, but still not quite in, the Damocles Gulf area. whether its a sector or not I dont know.

Page 49

Though not as vast as a Navy ship, the Oceanid had once been home to several thousand souls, but the soulless automatons that were servitors served increasingly more and more functions, and the numbers of honest, flesh and blood men in his service decreased proportion. Human crew carried out more; crew press-ganged upon a number of worlds, of which the Arcadius held the ancestral rite to take its cut of the varied flotsam and jetsam that washed up there.

This implies "navy ships" can be bigger than the RT heavy cruiser, and again the increasing use of the Imperium version of automation in the ship.

Its also interesting to note that the Arcadius family (the RT family in the novel) have certain worlds they are entitled to tithe from directly. Makes one wonder if they can take troops from those planets as well (their own Guard?)


Page 49-50

Approaching the main shuttle bay amidships, Lucian turned first to enter the battery - that part of the vessel set aside to store the many thousands of tonnes of highly destructive ordnance used by its mighty weapons. The battery was situated in the very heart of the Oceanid. It was surrounded by many metres of adamantium, the strongest, most resilient matieral known to man. Lucian's father had frequently regaled him with the story that should the Oceanid be destroyed, her battery would survive intact, to drift endlessly in space until devoured by void beasts, or ensnared by the inexorable pull of a black hole.

...

Lucian entered the battery. Within, vast racks of ordnance receded several hundred metres down the very spine of the ship, darkness swallowing all but the closest. Clunking servitors, three times larger than those serving on the bridge, prowled the rows; only their heads and upper torso betrayed a human origin, for pistons and power couplings had replaced much of their bodies, enabling them to heft the mighty shells onto waiting gurneys.

The Oceanid's ordnance bay. Carries "thousands of tonnes" of ordnancee. Notice as well they have loading servitors designed to haul the shells.. the servitors are 3x more massive (presumably than human size) with augmented strength. This may suggest the shells alone mass hundreds of kilos if not thousands (or much more - nothing says a single servitor has to laod it)
It does tell us though that cannon shells are far more massive than a single man could lift .


PAge 51

Several suits [of armour] were lightweight, dsigned for situations where a degree of protection could be sacrificed in exchange for additional mobility. Others were heavy and cumbersome, rivalling the Terminator armour worn by the elite of the Adeptus Astartes, so heavy were their armoured plates.

The ARcadius have a variety of armor at their personal use. some "Rival" Terminator armour, which may nto be surprising considering Terminator armour's origins. (Having a similar vairant for personal use wouldn't be a shock)

Page 51-52

- Lucian recalls a childhood tale where one of his ancestorws was entombed within the frame of an armoured Dreadnought. A possible throwback to very early fluff, here.

Page 52

A suit of power armour would suffice, one Lucian had worn many times, one whose war spirit knew him as well as he knew it. The individual parts of the armour were cumbersome, yet Lucian dressed himself, preferring the additional effort ot the intrusion of a servitor or rating aiding him. As he pulled on the armoured gloves, flexing them to awaken the machine impulses, Lucian reflected on the suit's vintage. It had come into the dynasty during the time of Mathan Gerrit, known for his xenocidal crusade against the burgeoning Reek Enclave.

...

The armour was too heavy for a normal man to bear, relying instead on a complex array of fibre bundles to move its weight in response ot the wearers movements.

the Rogue Trader has his own personla power armour as well. IT is "heavier" than a normal man, so this probably suggests its close to or greater than his own body weight.

You have to wonder what the guy DOESN'T have. He's probably got some vortex grenades and a Land Raider or two stashed aweay somewhere.

Page 53

- The Arcadius shuttle Lucian is going to use is modular, allowing components to be swapped in and out to fit a given mission profile.

Page 54

Although compensated for by the shuttle's systems, the violence of the (atomspheric) drop was notable. Lucian could feel the heat building up, his power armour's own mechanisms fighting to counter it.

The power armour has its own internal enviromental regulation systems (temperature regulation, for example.)

Page 60

The plasma bolt struck the creature's torso, causing it to explode in an eruption of smoking gore and razor-sharp limbs.

Plasma pistol shot. The creature is multi-legged, and described as a "meter in diameter" suggesting it is quite bulky. Assuming 100 kilos or so, and that it merely "boiled" the flesh on the body, ,it might double digit MJ, probably less. Mind you, plasma pistol outputs can vary depending on setting just as much as lasguns can. I also imgine they can be more "explosive" or they can be more thermal (as in cremation, like many examples.)

Page 61-62

Lucian concealed his surprise, for anti-gravitic technology was rare within the Imperum, and generally confined to small applications such as those generators found within servo-skulls or to far larger uses in starship construction. Lucian had never seen it manifested in such a utilitarian manner as to raise a simple cargo crate.

Page 72

- The light criser Fairlight has a crew of several thousand, though only a fraction of this is free men (The rest is press-ganged ratings.) This presumably does not include servitors, as they were previously described as "soulless", and the numbers mention "several thousand souls".

Page 74

- it is heavily implied that the warp area in and around the Damocles Gulf area is very turbulent, due to some "spiritual turmoil and upheaval" and this makes warp travel difficult if not impossible in some respects.


Page 75

- a twenty day voyage through the warp back to Luneberg's system from their current one. Assuming between 10-100 LY, this works out to hundreds or thousands of times c.

Page 75

- the Fairlight has at least three stasis holds. (The Farlight is one of the Rogue Trader light cruisers run by the child of the Arcadius head).

[NecronLord]

The last irksome thing is that Space Combat in this novel is, to put it bluntly, absurd. You thought 40K combat had age of sail qualities before? This novel takes the "age of sail in space" principle far too litearlly. Ragnes of kilometers or less.. hundreds of meteres even. Hoare doesnt seem to have a concept of scale in space - don't expect to see "light seconds", "light minutes" or even "light hours" or god forbid AU mentioned. ITs as bad as Stackpole's "literal translation of the X-wing video games into a novel" approach.

Ouch. I'm suddenly reminded of Goto's multi-AU range spinal gun...

Page 61-62

Lucian concealed his surprise, for anti-gravitic technology was rare within the Imperum, and generally confined to small applications such as those generators found within servo-skulls or to far larger uses in starship construction. Lucian had never seen it manifested in such a utilitarian manner as to raise a simple cargo crate.

Guess he's not been to that agri planet in Warped Stars, then?

[Luzifer's right hand]

Guess he's not been to that agri planet in Warped Stars, then?

There seems to be a lot of different tech levels in the Imperium, the worlds in Brothers of the Snake appeared much more low tech than most stuff in Eisenhorn and Ravenor from what I remember.

[Connor MacLeod]

Ouch. I'm suddenly reminded of Goto's multi-AU range spinal gun...

Which novel was that?

And I've seen others.. combats taking across ranges (though 40K ships having only ten gee accelerations or so)

Page 61-62

Lucian concealed his surprise, for anti-gravitic technology was rare within the Imperum, and generally confined to small applications such as those generators found within servo-skulls or to far larger uses in starship construction. Lucian had never seen it manifested in such a utilitarian manner as to raise a simple cargo crate.

Guess he's not been to that agri planet in Warped Stars, then?

I dont remember that, so I'll have to dig out my copy of Deathwing again.

[andrewgpaul]

Wasn't that the one which didn't use wheels, because they were artefact of Chaos? The Space Marines had to cover up the running gear on their tanks, IIRC.

[Ford Prefect]

You have to wonder what the guy DOESN'T have.

He is a Rogue Trader.

[Connor MacLeod]

Wasn't that the one which didn't use wheels, because they were artefact of Chaos? The Space Marines had to cover up the running gear on their tanks, IIRC.

Oh wait, That one? With the DAoT Dreadnought? With the Psyker who was suppose dto be a mini GEoM, the Inquisitor with the energy armor (projected a shield around it?), and the Space Marines who used lasers instead of bolters?

That was a bizarre story.

[Falkenhayn]

He is a Rogue Trader.

Depends on the age and the signature on the bottom of his Charter. I haven't read the book, but from the way things are going in this thread, I wouldn't put it past Hoare to give his main character some parchment endorsed by the Emperor.

[Connor MacLeod]

He is a Rogue Trader.

Depends on the age and the signature on the bottom of his Charter. I haven't read the book, but from the way things are going in this thread, I wouldn't put it past Hoare to give his main character some parchment endorsed by the Emperor.

No, that happened in Legacy, the second Shira Calpurnia novel.

[Falkenhayn]

No, that happened in Legacy, the second Shira Calpurnia novel.

Yeah, fuck that in the ear.

[Shadowtraveler]

According to Lucian few authorities in teh galaxy short of an "Inquisitor Lord or Space Marine Chapter Master," would demand that he divest himself of weapons (and even then he would expect them to ask politely.)

This also gives us an insight into the politics of the Imperium, and how Rogue Traders (in theory) rank.

I think it's more likely that Lucian is full of himself.

[Connor MacLeod]

Next set. I'm aiming for lager chunks to get through this novel as soon as I can.

Page 76

Brielle watched from her command throne as the distant form of the Oceanid broke formation, moving to a safe distance from which she would commence her dive into the warp. Such a manoeuvre was inhnerently dangerous, and in populated systems was subject to a plethora of ordinances, each designed to minimise the impact of any mishap on nearby vessels. Brielle had heard of all manner of grisly tales of catastrophic war drive malfunction, and had even witnessed the aftermath of one, at the world of Radina V. There, a bulk carrier had mistimed its translation, sheering off the gravity pull of Radina V's third moon. The carrier was caught in a slingshot as it dived in to the warp, pulled in too many dimensions by forces impossible to comprehend. The vessel had broken up, and been smeared across space in a debris field that engulfed the moon and part of Radina itself with fallout. It wasn't the sort of fallout that could be scrubbed by decontamination teams. It was spiritual fallout, the residue of three thousand souls lost in the disaster, and it afflicted the minds of every man, woman, and child upon the moon's surface, and several hundred thousand more on Radina V, touched by the warp as it leaked through the three thousand tiny warp portals created at the instant of the carrier's destruction.

...

The rogue traders had delivered an Ordo Hereticus strike force to Radina V, and Brielle had watched from orbit as the Emperor's mercy had been delivered to hundreds of thousands of afflicted subjects. An entire continent had been burned clean of the unclean stain of the warp, those driven beyond the limit of sanity by its touch delivered by cleansing flame.

The dangers and catastrophes a warp drive malfunction, and the means of preventing and cleaning up after them. Several ponts of note:

- This provides a reason as to WHY most Imperial ships probably get clear of a planetary systme prior to doing warp translations. IT is not so much impossible to emerge from the warp INSIDE a system, as it is dangerous/difficult, and the ability to do so depends upon having a good/well maintained warp drive, a skilled navigator or both. (IT would also suggest why generally only outfits like the Inquisition might be able to achieve this.) and even then, they may onyl do it in exceptional circumstances.

- Cleaning up after the disaster required not just the eliminatin of the population, but actually "burning clean" an entire continent. continental-scale damage is well in the range of teratons, regardles of the mechanism of delivery. (presumably by starship after the people were killed, to make sure everything had been gotten)

If it was a continent-scale cleansing via bombardment, this suggests that the Rogue Trader ship (light cruiser or heavy cruiser) delivered it in a fairly short time (minutes tops, as Brielle was watching.)

Page 79

- the translation into the warp from realspace is accompanied by an increase in velocity (at this point, it increases exponentnially.) This seems to resemble the massive acceeleration prior ot a jump to lightspeed. The mechanism for the jump is not known however.

Page 79-80

- a (tau) vessel 40,000 kilometers away from the Fairlight intereferes severely with the warp jump by virtue of its mass/gravity, something which the Navigator must try to compensate for. Its "gravitiic signature" was well in excess of its class, so this suggests Tau gravitational drives represent a significantly greater threat than normal vessels. It also affirms that the skill/capabilities of the Navigator influence the ease/ability of one to jump into the warp.


Page 82

- Navigators all across the sector would have instantly known of the death of one of their own had the Fairlight come to harm (IE destruction) in the warp and its navigator suffered "soul death" at the hands of warp daemons.

Page 83

- A Rogue Trader's mandate is considered (by Lucian) to be "as weighty" as that of any Imperial Commander. A Rogue Trader can also demand any service they required from any Planetary Imperial Commander while in the pursuit of their business or activities. Outside their official duties, Rogue Traders cannot command an Imperial Commander, however.

Page 84-85

It was something approaching two metres in length, but was almost too easy to lift. Its business end housed a metallic sphere that rotated in three dimensions, allowing, Brielle guessed, for its smooth handling. She braced the weapon at her shoulder, marvelling at the way its bulk rotated around the gyroscopic sphere, and closed one eye. As she drew a bead on a non-existent target, a small box rose from the body of the weapon. She startetd, pulling her head sharply away, but she saw the box housed some form of sighting device. She placed her eye to it, cautiously peering through. On the tiny screen within, blocky alien text flowed around a central crosshair, picking out all manner of objects within the hold.

Brielle could not read the text, but she knew such a weapon surpassed the vast majority of those in Imperial manufacture. Granted, those such as the mighty Adeptus Astartes had access to equivalent technologies, but what might Luneburge want with them?

Tau weapon, probably a pulse rifle.


Page 105

She saw no signs of law enforcement, which on most of the Imperium's more populous worlds wwas conspicuous, and proactive in keeping the subjects in line. Here, the enforcers were conspicuous by their absence. Was the populace so well behaved as to make enforcement unneccessary? She doubted that, for she knew that rebellion and Heresy lay just below the surface on every world of the Imperium. Not a single world, least of all sacred Terra itself, was untouched by war, and most such conflicts were internal in nature, even when triggered by external factors.

It seems that the 'galaxy at war" concept applies mainly to "internal conflicts" (which would partly global or local in most parts.. either "police actions" or regional wars at most. Nothing different from what our own world has faced.) Another indication, perhaps that the whole "galaxy at war" thing is overrated "grimmdark"

Page 108

- Tau antigrav generates installed on street lighting. Similar, I believ, , has been seen in Imperial worlds.

Page 130

- household (elite or personal) guards of the Lord commander seem to have access to personal comms (throat mounted ones) It seems that microbead restrictions are not as widespread on local worlds as some sources (IE Cain) suggest.

Page 138

"My line has ruled tis world, this system, and indeed three other nearby, uninhabited, systems, for longer than the archives record."

This suggests that even Planetary governros can have some means of FTL contact with other systems (most likely the non-astropathic means of navigation outlined in places like Dark Heresy.)

Page 146

She considered the hundreds of crew serving upon the Fairlight, the thousands serving under her father in the flotilla as a whole. MAny were the scions of families indentured to the Arcadius generations previously; others were press-ganged at those ports where the dynasty was granted the right to recruit. Still more were even less willing, convicted of petty crimes, death sentences commuted to service aboard Navy or merchant vessels. Others were servitors, lobotomised creatures, partt man, mostly machine, and despite being concentrated by the officers of the Creed, and highly valued, unthinking things of cold flesh.[

"Thousands" seems like a drastic underestimate, since as I recall Naval light cruisers require something like 5-8 thousand crews, , and a heavy cruiser 10,000 crews. or around 25 thousand men total... hich would suggest most are servitors, especially if the Fairlight (a light cruiser) has merely "hundreds" (this would mean one in eight at BEST is a normal human)

Page 153

She chuckled inwardly as she saw that the weapon her father pointed was one that would not kill, but would instead have a far more interesting effect upon the taget's nervous system.

...

The Imperial Commander stood transfixed as actinic lightning played around his head, before losign control of his bowels, explosively, and collapsing to the floor. There he lay, wailing and puking like a newborn, while his harem recoiled in terror.

Initial comments imply that its a digital weapon of some kind that does this, but the only digital weapons Lucian was noted as having early in the book (page 16-17) was lasers. THis is more akin to the "pistol sized" xenos weapon that messed with a target's brian functions, both in description of effect as well as results.

Page 157

A high-pitched whine filled the corridor, followed an instant later by the screaming report of an energy weapon discharging at close quarters- another of her father's hidden, digital weapons, she guessed. The roiling bolt raced the length of the corridor, its light blinding in the enclosed space, before slamming into the guard's left shoulder.

The man's shoulder disintegrated, leaving nothing to attach his left arm to his body. The catastrophic wound was cauterised before the blackened arm flopped to the floor, to be followed a moment later by the rest of the Guard.

These guards are probably armoured, more than likely the household guards, which means carapace, cauterising the shoulder and severing the limb with a digital weapon (remember, they're lasers) suggests.affecting several kilograms fo flesh. Say about 1-2 MJ worth of energ, minimum.


Page 163

- weapons fire from Imperial commander's orbital defenses. Xenos (tau) weapon, said to "leave no etheric wake", whatever that means.

Page 162

The bridge lights flickered and dimmed as the very last kilojoule of available power was diveretd to the screaming shield generators. A patch fo space, a section of the field projected in fron to fhte vessel, glowed white-hot at the point where the weapon had struck.

The weapons array is mentioned to have stripped the Rosetta (Rogue Trader light cruiser)'s shields to "half their capacity. Of course, being a kinetic wepaon, they're more complex than just pure energy.

Page 162

"The weapon fired some form of hyper-velocity projectile. It was solid, not energy based. Our shields absorbed its force, but are not configured to convert such high-velocity particle impacts.

Shields can be "configured" (optimizeD) against energy or kinetic attacks. Curiously, I'm nto sure what "convert" means.. does it refer to physically "destroying" such projectileS?

Page 163

He knew nothing of such weapons, for the majority of human vessels used either explosive projectiles or energy-based laser weapons.

Tau railguns are "unknown" to Korvane, but this is bizarre given that BFG mentions using railguns (and countles sother kinds of wepaons)

Page 163

- the outbound flight vector of the planet the Rogue Traders are escaping (the warp off point, in other wordS) is metnioned as being two AU out from the inhabited planet.

Page 179

- the Oceanid's bridge is hundreds of metres ahead of the engine section. Methinks Hoare is triyn gto "micro-size" 40K vessels (heavy cruisers are 3 km long.)


Page 186

- old astropath mentiosn "The ether" alive with astropathic messages. This oddly suggests soem warp-based element to the "etheric wake" of certain Imperium weapons. Later mention of the "ether" being alive with astropathic messages."

Page 187/b]

"Every astropath for ten, twenty, thirty light years sings the same message."

...

Every world within anything up to thirty light years, that might be dozens, scores even of civilised systems, each with a population of many millions.

This establishes some interesting details

1.) Ranges of Astropaths (individually) can be up to 10-30 light years. Important for communications, the approximate size of the galactic astropath network, and the approximate range/speed of Astropathic FTL travel.

2.) up to 30 light years (Radius? Diameter) occupies "dozens or scores" of inh abited systems, with "millions" in population each. This isn't even a sector (sub-sector perhaps) but there could be 100 such "groupings" in an Imperial sector (200 light years per side) This would suggest "thousands" of civilised worlds per sector (higher than most other sourcees, including BFG, suggest) with "billions" of people total. Note that this doesnt neccearily mean human habitation, but it could be (peraps this sector is more heavily populated than others..) If its a 30 ly radius, its probably even MUCH greater than that.

The per-planet population seems a bit low for civilised worlds, but this is out on the fringe, where we can assume low population density.

[Junghalli]

The part about agricultural worlds with populations of a few hundred is quite interesting, as it suggests a pretty awesome level of automation. Of course, if they can do this you sort of have to wonder why spacecraft crews tend to be so large. Maybe those planets just have millions of servitors doing the work (they probably wouldn't be counted as population, I think).

Page 138

"My line has ruled tis world, this system, and indeed three other nearby, uninhabited, systems, for longer than the archives record."

This suggests that even Planetary governros can have some means of FTL contact with other systems (most likely the non-astropathic means of navigation outlined in places like Dark Heresy.)

In fairness, if they're uninhabited systems it might simply mean something to the effect of long ago one of his ancestors had somebody plant a flag there, making them his domains on paper, but he doesn't actually have to rule them in any real sense. Sort of like how present day nations legally own parts of Antarctica.

[Ford Prefect]

The part about agricultural worlds with populations of a few hundred is quite interesting, as it suggests a pretty awesome level of automation. Of course, if they can do this you sort of have to wonder why spacecraft crews tend to be so large. Maybe those planets just have millions of servitors doing the work (they probably wouldn't be counted as population, I think).

It's probably much easier to send your big ass auto-tractor off in a straight line across the continent sized wheat field than it is to run a starship, if you get what I mean.

[Connor MacLeod]

The part about agricultural worlds with populations of a few hundred is quite interesting, as it suggests a pretty awesome level of automation. Of course, if they can do this you sort of have to wonder why spacecraft crews tend to be so large. Maybe those planets just have millions of servitors doing the work (they probably wouldn't be counted as population, I think).

Other novels cover agri worlds too. The most immediate example relevant here is Bleeding Chalice where some former Adminsitratum official is off on some agri world from punishment. The place is bloody huge, and virtually all the landmass is occupied by farming/agriculture (grox as I recall, its not just for plants.) and the place was virtually untended (a few hundred or a few thousnad people I think.) Hevy automation can be part of it, but really they don't need much population for certain practices (raising livestock or other forms of meat animal) - I imagine those can be salvaged and shipped pretty directly from on-planet.

As for spacecraft crews... For their size they probably DON'T have all that many crews a Heavy cruiser has 10,000 or so crew and probably is nearly equal in terms of volume to an ISD, if not greater (which has nearly 40,000 crew.)

There can be alot of reasons for so many people onboard. REdundancy is one (ISDs carry lots of crews for decentralized operations of systems like weaponry and such. If you lose the combat computer, you can still fight on.)

There's also the fact ships engage on prolonged operations. You may need "shift" crews, as well as the fact that you may need extra people in case of loss of life or other reasons (40K ships can patrol for weeks, months or even years at a time remember, so they tend towards a greater level of self-suffiicency.) Hell, there's always the "void born" - people who basically LIVE in space - some ships actually ARE living enviroments.

THen of course there is the fact ships crews double as combat troops (Boarding actions and such) so in those cases you'll want extra crews.

It is also possible that crew sizes vary somewhat due to automation. I've heard in other sources that battleships have a mere 20,000 crew, (or only tens of thousands) despite being massively larger than cruisers.
It may also be due to extensive servitor use onboard ship - crew complements would not neccearily include these figures.

[Connor MacLeod]

Last entry for this book, then I'm finished with this stuff and can move onto the next one...

Page 193

"This pattern is drawn from a rarely used template, one that only we of Arris Epsilon may utilise. I am told that their power cores are entirely unique, n that they are motivated not by fpssil fuel, but by some manner of cold atomic reaction."

nuclear powered chimeras. Despite what is claimed here, it is well known that other "nuclear powered" chimeras exist, evne if they aren't common. And its hardly reasonable to expect some backwater fringe world to know whether or not its technology is exclusive throughout the whole Imperium.

Its also likely that if there are n uclear powered chimeras out there, there are probably nuclear powered Russes, Baneblades, and whatnot. I would also imagine that they have better operational range and probably higher speeds.

Page 204

But his mother, Emperor bless her shrivelled soul, had, thanks to countless rejuv courses, lived two centuries already, ,and appeared likely to live for another two at least.

Page 210

- the Oceanid is a mere one hundred kilometres (supposedly) from a Tau fleet of half a dozen ships, running at 10% power, yet remains undetected or spotted. This is either a testament to Andy Hoare's inability to grasp distances in space, Tau incompetence or the inferiority of their sensors, or the capabilities of Imperial stealth/masking technologies. Take your pick.

Page 210

"Fifty kilometres."

...

The red lighting dimmed for a moment as the secondary communications array bled off the power it needed to go from cold to fully ready in mere seconds. Lucian kept his eyes on the hologrraph, knowing that the aliens would pick up the power surge at any moment.

after powering up the comm array, and just before Lucian orders the comms station to open frequencies to send a communication, the helmsan notes they are 25 kilometres away. In a "mere seconds" the Oceanid went from 50 to 25 km - covering 25 km in "mere seconds"

Page 211

Lucian stepped from his command throne, towards the forward viewing port. The distance between the Oceanid and the alien vessels was too great to afford visual recognition, but Lucian looked towards the area of space where he knew the alien's position lay as he replied.

Sorry, but this is a joke. The Tau vessels are supposed to be "beyond visual range", but they are described as being mere tens of kilometres away, which ought ot be well within visual range for vessels of the known sizes 40K vessel are. Tau vessels can be smaller, but not that much smaller. Something a kilometer or a mile long should only be "invisible" from hundreds if not thousands of kilometres away.

This is precisely why I tend to think of his ship combat as a joke. Based on this, I also tend to conclude that for the given ranges he states, you have to inflate the actual ranges by an order of magnitude or two.

Page 212

At their current speed, Lucian would expect the alien vessels to be visible in the next few minutes. Then, and only then, would he be able to gauge the relative oddds.

...

Lucian turned back to the holograph. As the range shortened, the seven vessels took on more detail, the Oceanid's cogitation banks providing details of size, mass, and approximate power levels. The minutes passed, Lucian absorbing the data presented in the readouts.

note in the previous pages we mentioned that the "Oceanid" could cover 25 km in "mere seconds". Assuming this means around 2-4 seconds, the velocity would be somewher ebetween 12 and 6 km/s. Assumign 2-3 minutes (120-180 seconds) the ranges would be anywhere from 700 km to 2500 km, at least. Again, Hoare doesnt seem to

Note that its not precise and you could stretch the definition some (say 10 seconds to cross 25 km, or 2.5 km/s) but even then you're still talking "hundreds or thousands" of kilometers. IT is mentioned that the Oceanid could approach the tau, and they'd taken up formation in case of trouble, so they obviously were not simply moving along on the same course or at the same speed anymore.


Page 212

- shortly after evaluating the Tau ships frfom the heavy cruiser's cogitators, the helmsman notes they approached the "ten kilometre" mark. In this case, given their "approaching" the Tau from a distance, we can believe it is genuinely 10 kilometres....



Page 212

The yellow-green globe of Arris Epsilon dominated the view, but Lucian could just make out the glittering constellation of lights that he knew to be the alien fleet.

.. or not 10 KM in space terms is pretty damn close. They're still evidently some distance off (not a whole lot, but probably alto further than 10 km)

Page213

Drawing closer to the alien fleet, the Oceanid passed the first of the alien vessels. He studied it as it slid slilently by to starboard, its long, blocky form filling the smaller portholes of his own vessel. It was large, Lucian saw, of greater length than his ownv essel, that much was immediately evident.

Tau vessel was longer than Lucian's craft, at least. Which makes the "visual distance" nosnense I elaborated on above even more absurd.

Page 213

- Lucian estimates that the Oceanid could take on several of the tau ships and with luck, beat them all.


Page 216

A handful of the projectiles exploded prematurely as they were swallowed in the superheated wake of the vessel's vast engines, but the majority struck the superstructure, smashing through the metres thick armoured engine casings and exploding deep within.

Tau vessels have metres thick armor. The Oceanid's proejctiles also are combined kinetic and explosive weapons (much as torpedoes and bolters are).

Page 218

At ten kilometres, the alien ship opened fire, its forward weapons flashing as they threw hyper-velocity projectiles across the void.

Tau Railguns.

Page 218

A series of secondary explosions sounded through the deck, and Lucian judged that these were the forward conversion plants.

Not sure what "conversion plants" are.


Page 218

- at this point the distance between the two ships is noted to be at the "one kilometre mark"

Page 219

The mighty cannon spat death across the void, macro-shells crossing the gulf between the two vessels in seconds.

Hoare's inconsistent and debatable measurements aside, if we assume hundreds or thousands of km (or even tens of thousands, as in battlefleet gothic) the ability to cross that distanc ein "Seconds" suggests velocities of hundreds or thousands of kilometers.

Otherwise, with Hoare's numbers, we're talking less than a km/s velocity. I presume I don't have to explain the problems with this.

Page 219

Half the broadside merely glanced, or missed the target entirely, but the other half struck home.

Accuracy of the Oceanid's broadside. Of course, tis a Rogue Trader vessel and its operating at less than peak efficiency, but still...

And this is keeping in mind "Hoare-verse" ranges.

Page 221

He studied the nature and deployment of Luneberg's vessels. Although still some distance away, he judged that they were not large ships, most about the size of an escort. Two, however, ,were of greater mass, Lucian estimating them equivalent to light cruiser scale. Ordinarily, the Oceanid, being equivalent to a heavy cruiser woudl have had little trouble seeing them off, but in h er current condition, and with the aliens in the fight too, he was not quite so confident.

naval forcese appear, under the command of a Imperial planetary commander. Since this battle is occuring in a system run by a different commander, this suggests that the first commander has acceess to warp capable vessels. Which seems impossible on the surface, but this is "out in the boonies" by Imperium terms. They probably rely on defending themeselves more than they do on Imperial support, so FTL capabel vessels may be needed (or like their weapons, bought from Xenos.) Of course lacking NAvigators, they'll be both slow and short ranged.

Most of the ships are escort-scale, but a few are light-cruiser sized (2 to be exact.) This tends to suggest the escorts are perhaps between half a kilometer (the smallest destroyer-scale I know of) and 1.5 km (they're smaller than teh cruisers, remember). The cruisers are around 2-2.5km, which gives us an indicator of how large/powerful PDF ships can get.

Its also interesting to note that if the Oceanid were in top shape, Lucian feels confident that he could fend off all sixteen ships, which indicates to us the relative powers between escorts and cruisers (and light and heavy cruisers) (that is, a heavy cruiser is at least several times more powerufl than a light cruiser)

Page 222

The range reduced still further, and in no time at lal the Oceanid was bearing in on Luneberg's fleet. The enemy vessels fully within visual range, Lucian saw the smaller vessels were, as he had estimated, escorts. They were of a class he had only rarely seen, being more common amongst system and subsector reserve fleets of the southern reaches. They were old by any acocunting, and ill-suited to even the smallest of fleet actions. They were better suited to convoy duites, where they would act as a reasonable deterrent to opportunistic raiders, who would be unlikely to risk even a single salvo from their prow torpedoes.

mention of "System" and "subsector" reserve fleets. If there are reserve fleets, there are probably "active" fleets as well. System fleets are presumably your usual system defense forces, but may also include Imperial Naval forces based in given systems (special purpose?), though the contesxt here suggests the former is more liekly. "Subsector' fleets have been mentioned elswhere (Soul Drinkers by Ben Counter) and that makes sense (Sector fleets exist, ,and one would imagine Segmentum fleets do, as well as system fleets. so why not subsector fleets?)

And you may wonder why this Governor has "warp capable" vessels.. well, we know that there are ships that can navigate the warp in a slow, linear pattern without astropaths or navigators, so presumably warships could travel in a similar fashion as well. And there is short range-computer controlled navigation over 4-5 light years. Subsector fleet ships may use similar types as well.


Page 223

- a single torpedo is noted to cost "as much as a light cruiser". Something I highly doubt, unless its to deal with prices/availabilityt for nonmilitary personnel.

Page 227

The Fairlight burst out of the immaterium, Brielle immediately scanning the surrounding space for signs of her father or her stepbrother. She found them striaght away, as she had expected to do, but she was somewhat shocked to see two entire fleets of vessels, apparently closing in on one another, as well.

If one recalls, all those s hips were in and around the habitable zone of the system (which is around 1-2 AU or so out from the sun, assuming a Sol-like sun). This in turn menas Brielle is some light minutes or light hours away from the engagement, yet it is suggested that the Fairlight is using FTL scanners to detect them if it picks them up "immediately" and "Straight away". On the other hand, this may also just be passive sensors and Hoare isn't phrasing it right, but the "scanning surrounding space" would imply active detection, so it could yet be another example of FTL scanning.

Page 229

Some one hundred kilometres to Oceanid's fore, two of the groups of icons danced, reams of data scrolling next to each.

The Rogue Traders, the tau, and the "enemy" PDf fleet mentioned before. That fleet is identified as having at least a "dozen or so" escorts and two light cruisers.

Also note the "hundred kilometres" bit, becomes noteworthy shortly.

Page 234-235

..bringing the Oceanid around on a new heading perpendicular to the Chasmatan vessels.
"Trim mains to twenty."

He sat back and studied the holograph,, for Luneberrg's fleet was too far distant to see with the naked eye.

...

One, two, three, he counted the minutes, looking for any sign of a change in course.

....

He looked to the range counter on the holograph, seeing that it was rapidly counting down to the point of, what he knew was no return. In only a few minutes, the tau fleet would be within visual range.

Lucian felt an itch on the back of his neck and looked to the projection, seeing that Luneberg's fleet had completed its arc and was now pursuing the rogue trader ships, maintaining a range of eighty kilometres and closing.

...

Lucian let out an exultant whoop as the Oceanid and her attending ships swept across the fore of the tau vessels' formation. He watched as they came into visual range, his gaze fixed on their prow-mounted turrets, which turned wildly, seeking to acquire the Oceanid in their sights.

Earlier it was said the fleets were "one hundred kilometres" from the Oceanid, but that's not really going to be "beyond visual range" fo the naked eye for multi-kilometre vessels, so again Hoare seems to have messed up ranges.

In broad terms, we can conjecture that the engagement range for Tau (and Imperial) weapons in this instance was around the point of entering visual range (hundreds, probably thousands of kilometres)

Page 240

As the distance closed to less than five hundred metres, the figures leapt into sudden movement, blue jets at their backs and ankles bursting into life and propelling them into space.

Not only are we presented with combat ranges of half a kilometere in space (involving multi-kilometre warships no less), we're also presented with space going versions of tau battlesuits. Yes, the mobility oriented Tau use tactic the Imperium don't.. boarding actions. Unfortunately, its not hte last we'll see of these things.

I'm also fairly certain these battlesuits aren't like the gorund suits. They're probably more like spacetrooper armor (mini spacesuit) bulkier and heavier than regular battlesuits, but presumably more heavily armed and armored, and able to manuver in a vaccuum.

Page 241

As the figures closed, he could see that they were some form of heavily armed and armoured suit, evidently built for extra-vehicular activity. What he could see were essentially torsos occupying the suit's centrla masses; small-head like blocks perched atop them. The arms were great clamps, intended, he saw immediately, to attach themselves to any available structure, and hang on while the two great weapons mounted under each clamp burned through any but the most resistant huull. Upon the suit's backs were mounted complex manoeuvring jets, smaller clusters of which were also visible at the ankles and shoulders.

These sujits do seem to differ from crisis and Braodside battlesuits as being speciliazed for space use. Descriptions of their capabilities and potential armament.

Page 242

- the tau suits had closed half the distance in a matter of seconds (the time for Korvane, captain of the Rosetta to try making several quick emerggency com calls.) That means 250 meters in a few seconds, or an average velocity of 100 m/s or so (and perhaps a efw gees accel)

Note also they are two hundred and fifty metres away from the craft still, this becomes important later

Page 243

- some fo the tau suits (at least the first wavE) have reached the Rosetta and begin cutting their way inside the ship.


Page 244

The torpedo detonated, scouring the space between the Rosetta and the tau vessel, burning the surface of Korvane's vessel, instantly vaporising every last one of the tau battlesuits, raking the Rosetta with the cleansing fires of oblivion.[//quote]

Proximity detonation of a Imperial torpedo. Vaporizes the suits. They're at close range to the ship, and turn around to try and flee back to their tau ship, but the torpedo detonates in between the Rosetta and the Tau vessel.

Assuming its roughly equidistant between the two, and the half kilometre or so distance before, so 250 metres between each vessel.

We don't know the mass of the suits, but we can assume they're at least similar to crisis or broadside suits (2.5-4 tons) which would require (assuming iron composition) at least between 19 and 30 GJ to vaporize. At a distance of roughly 150-200 meters or so (an approximate distance assuming the Tau moved some 50-100 m in the seconds before the missile detonates.. it takes about 5 seconds in countdown to go off) would yield a multi-megaton warhead.

Assuming roughly similar dimensions for the Tau ship and Rosetta.. (2 km long, 400 m tall and wide).. the Rosetta would absorb some 600 kilotons as would the tAu ship, if they were facing straight ahead. Broadside on, the vessel would absorb roughly half the blast.

These are, mind you, lower limits, We dont knwo the exact distances, and we dont know how tough the suits are (or how much they mass).

There's also the latter fact the explosion physically pushes the vessels away, which alone hints at a greater yield than kiloton/megaton range.


Page 245

The Rosetta was scoured by the explosion, the mighty vessel propelled away by the blast wave and spinning slowly clear. The tau vessel too was caught in the explosion, its entire starboard side erupting in secondary explosions as it was pushed by gargantuan energies across space. Lucian watched as the tau vessel spun clean through its four sister ships, each veering desperately to avoid it. At the last, the tau vessel collided with the Borealis Defensor, the two ships grinding inexorable together, twisting and melding together to form a terrible amalgamation of human and tau starship.

The explosion has enough power to physically shove aside both Imperial and Tau craft. ITs odd that it has a "blast wave" as lacking a vaccuum there is nothing to generate blast (unles sits a peculiar nature of plasma warheads) - thought he source indicates its pushed by "energies" suggesting it might be a side effect of the raw power alone. ASsuming (conservatively) that the Rosetta weighs just a few million tons and is only pushed a fwe m/s, the torpedo yield will be worth at least a few gigatons. Odds are the vessel is t leaast tens of millions of tons and the velocity was much greater, so the yield is probably more at least double/triple digit gigaton, possibly even low Terton range.

[Junghalli]

Page 193

"This pattern is drawn from a rarely used template, one that only we of Arris Epsilon may utilise. I am told that their power cores are entirely unique, n that they are motivated not by fpssil fuel, but by some manner of cold atomic reaction."

nuclear powered chimeras. Despite what is claimed here, it is well known that other "nuclear powered" chimeras exist, evne if they aren't common. And its hardly reasonable to expect some backwater fringe world to know whether or not its technology is exclusive throughout the whole Imperium.

Also, if we want to interpret it literally, they could be unique in that they use cold fusion, whereas other nuclear-powered Chimeras use conventional hot fusion of some sort.