Italians sunbathe meters from dead gypsies

[Tanasinn]

I see no reason for the beachgoers to vacate the scene if there was no medical, health, or family-related reason. Certainly the unfortunate dead were beyond caring.

[Spyder]

Do beaches normally clear out when somebody drowns, or do people just stay and continue to sunbathe? I guess I'm just curious what "normal" behaviour is in this sort of situation. I've never been a sunbather myself, and I do most of my swimming at pools, not beaches.

Now that you mention it, it would be good to know the protocol if I'm ever in that situation. There's no FAQ for this sort of stuff is there?

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Why do they "need to go the fuck somewhere else?"

Alright, I admit that's basically a visceral belief that some respect should be showed for the remnant human dignity a corpse still has--the dulce et decorum and rituals of formality natural to dealing with the loss of members of our own race, as it were.

OK, let's quantify this then. Within what radius do people need to vacate the beach? Those within 100 feet of the dead girls, within 500 feet, within visual distance (that could be several miles)?

Well, in the United States the area would be surrounded by crime-scene tape out to about 50 - 150 feet, and I'd expect everyone else to stay 25ft or so beyond that out of nervousness for the most part, and for the sunbathers and so on to naturally relocate from crime scene tape a bit further, so I'd imagine that about 500ft is about right for what I THOUGHT would be the normal social response.

[Death from the Sea]

There should have been an area set up by police/emergency services to move the bodies out of public view, instead of just covering them up with towels on the beach itself. I am sure to people just arriving at the beach they looked like kids sleeping with towels on them and I can see why some may be in close proximity to them and be "indifferent".

Of course the beach could have been closed due to the drowning danger posed by the strong currents and whatnot.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

There should have been an area set up by police/emergency services to move the bodies out of public view, instead of just covering them up with towels on the beach itself. I am sure to people just arriving at the beach they looked like kids sleeping with towels on them and I can see why some may be in close proximity to them and be "indifferent".

Of course the beach could have been closed due to the drowning danger posed by the strong currents and whatnot.

I think in my country, they would have closed the beach when something of the like happens, pending an investigation into what had happened.

[Atavarius]

If I were there alone, I probably would not have left. I worked in an ER for close to 6 years, so I have seen all manner of dead bodies.

If I were with someone with, lets say less "experience", I probably would have left with them.

[Singular Intellect]

I don't see why leaving was in any way necessary, either practically or morally. People die, it's a fact of life.

Personally, assuming I had kids I wouldn't feel compelled to hide the incident from them either. If anything it would show them the realities of life, and that life is not to be taken for granted.

[loomer]

I actually had something similar occur here in Aus. Less indifference from the people around me, more shock, but then everyone went back to swimming, sunbathing, and relaxing. It was quieter, granted, but they acknowledged the death of a stranger, gave it the respect due, and then resumed their day.

I didn't go swimming again that day, but that's just me.

[Melchior]

Is it common in Italy to bring wooden caskets out to transport bodies from the scene of an accident? I'm more familiar with a covered stretcher or gurney being used. It looked like they were headed directly to a graveyard.

The law requires an autopsy, obviously, so it is rather improbable that they were directly brought to a graveyard.

[Broomstick]

Regrettably, in my area not only do people drown, sometimes they wash up on a random beach months or even a year or two later (Lake Michigan is cold enough to do a decent job of preserving bodies, although fish nibble the soft bits off).

Typically, authorities will cordon off an area in which to retrieve a body or bodies, provide CPR if appropriate, etc. Something like a beach towel might be used to cover the deceased if nothing more formal is available, particularly if the person(s) had been in the water for a long period of time as decay is gross, but I have a hard time imagining the body being left unattended at any point once some form of authority arrives at the scene. Once officialdom shows up the unfortunate(s) would be placed in a body bag and transported elsewhere.

People do show up to look - an area cordoned off will usually be circled by a ring of curious on-lookers. The police will keep them back a certain distance, but otherwise not interfere. Past that ring of on-lookers there will be people going about their business. Some folks will leave (sensitive types, those with small children, etc.) but many will stay and go about their day, assuming that the police/rescue folks are taking care of business.

I haven't often seen drowings/wash ups before the police/rescue get there, but even then, once it is certain one is dealing with a corpse rather than a potential rescue, the tendency is for people to cover the body (at a beach a towel or two will probably be used) and spontaneously stand at a distance, forming an impromptu perimeter although that can be surprisingly small. The unspoken rule seems to be that you don't leave the body alone, but you don't have to sit right next to it, either. Again, you'll get a ring of folks around the body, with those outside of it going about their business for the most part.

Pool drownings seem to cause a lot more fuss, probably because pools are perceived as "safe" and you are more likely to know the drowned person. At seaside, or around here, on Lake Michigan (which really should be considered an inland sea) the situation is more "wild" and most people are cognizant that this is not a controlled, civilized situation and there is a potential for things like dangerous currents or waves. Add to that the fact that a body washing up at the Indiana Dunes may have fallen into the Lake off Navy Pier in Chicago or even as far away as Milwaukee, Wisconsin (the person is not only a stranger, they're not even a local) and folks are much less likely to get really worked up. Sure, they'll quiet down for a bit, some may move off, but it would be unlikely to completely stop someone's day out at the beach. Immediate family and friends of a drowning victim will be distraught, of course, but the fact is while most of us feel some sympathy for the death of a stranger, and would find a dead child's body distressing, we are unlikely to care as much about a stranger as someone we know.

[Winston Blake]

I can see two ethical reasons to leave. First, if the relatives of the dead people are around, and the presence of an uncaring crowd would cause them more emotional harm.

Second, if I'm with people who seem uncomfortable about it. They may want to leave out of squeamishness, but if other people in the group aren't leaving they may feel pressured to stay. I'd ask them about it.

[Big Phil]

I can see two ethical reasons to leave. First, if the relatives of the dead people are around, and the presence of an uncaring crowd would cause them more emotional harm.

Second, if I'm with people who seem uncomfortable about it. They may want to leave out of squeamishness, but if other people in the group aren't leaving they may feel pressured to stay. I'd ask them about it.

How are either of those reasons ethical? They're practical

[Darth Wong]

The moral outrage over this is almost comical in its self-righteous absurdity. Face facts; we don't really care when we pass a dead person. Did you feel overwhelmed with grief the last time you drove past a horrendous fatal traffic accident after being stuck in the inevitable traffic jam? Admit it; you either drove by with indifference or you took the opportunity to gawk.

It's different if you see somebody suffering or crying out for help. But a covered corpse is, well, just a shape under a blanket, unless you knew the person in life.

[Colonel Olrik]

For mostly practical reasons, I would have got up and sit somewhere else, and I'm surprised the people in the photo chose to stay there. I don't want my view of the ocean to be blocked by a couple of death bodies, and would be counting on being further disrupted by the arrival of coroners, police, etc (maybe not so much in Italy).

Saying that people should have gone home for ethical reasons is nonsense, I've lived close to the beach for 20 years, have seen many people being taken out of the water unconscious and dead, and that has never been more than a blip in the radar as far as disturbing the vacation goes (many of those cases are, if you ask me, natural selection, the Atlantic Ocean is not a fucking swimming pool so treat it with the respect it deserves).

[FSTargetDrone]

The law requires an autopsy, obviously, so it is rather improbable that they were directly brought to a graveyard.

I didn't think or mean to imply they were taking the bodies for immediate burial. I was being slightly tongue in cheek. It was just odd to see wooden coffins being used in that way.

[Winston Blake]

I can see two ethical reasons to leave. First, if the relatives of the dead people are around, and the presence of an uncaring crowd would cause them more emotional harm.

Second, if I'm with people who seem uncomfortable about it. They may want to leave out of squeamishness, but if other people in the group aren't leaving they may feel pressured to stay. I'd ask them about it.

How are either of those reasons ethical? They're practical.

Why can't they be both? It's just minimising harm.

[Metatwaddle]

Do beaches normally clear out when somebody drowns, or do people just stay and continue to sunbathe? I guess I'm just curious what "normal" behaviour is in this sort of situation. I've never been a sunbather myself, and I do most of my swimming at pools, not beaches.

I would have guessed that everyone would crowd around and watch.

[Shroom Man 777]

When I was in a car with my mom, we passed by a crowd of people gathered near some police cars - obviously an incident of some sort had happened. I commented that I was sure that "someone was very dead" and that "the more people there are, the deader the person is".

We both laughed.

[Mr. Coffee]

The moral outrage over this is almost comical in its self-righteous absurdity. Face facts; we don't really care when we pass a dead person. Did you feel overwhelmed with grief the last time you drove past a horrendous fatal traffic accident after being stuck in the inevitable traffic jam? Admit it; you either drove by with indifference or you took the opportunity to gawk.

It's different if you see somebody suffering or crying out for help. But a covered corpse is, well, just a shape under a blanket, unless you knew the person in life.

It's really funny to me. According to a couple of people in this thread, if I'm driving to work and see some EMTs pulling a couple stiffs out of a car wreck I should turn my truck around and go home to ponder the meaning of life or some shit. Fuck that, I'm going to slow down enough to not endanger the EMT guys and continue about my business.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

The moral outrage over this is almost comical in its self-righteous absurdity. Face facts; we don't really care when we pass a dead person. Did you feel overwhelmed with grief the last time you drove past a horrendous fatal traffic accident after being stuck in the inevitable traffic jam? Admit it; you either drove by with indifference or you took the opportunity to gawk.

It's different if you see somebody suffering or crying out for help. But a covered corpse is, well, just a shape under a blanket, unless you knew the person in life.

It's really funny to me. According to a couple of people in this thread, if I'm driving to work and see some EMTs pulling a couple stiffs out of a car wreck I should turn my truck around and go home to ponder the meaning of life or some shit. Fuck that, I'm going to slow down enough to not endanger the EMT guys and continue about my business.

Well, I guess it's me personally that I wouldn'y enjoy doing anything around corpses. I could certainly work, but work is a requirement whether or not you're enjoying yourself.

[Admiral Valdemar]

What if it had been someone dying of a heart attack in the middle of the beach? Do we still evacuate?

I'm thinking no.

[Mr. Coffee]

Well, I guess it's me personally that I wouldn'y enjoy doing anything around corpses. I could certainly work, but work is a requirement whether or not you're enjoying yourself.

As much as I might rant about some of the dumb shit I see at work I generally enjoy my work. So yeah, when I see a car wreck I slow down so I don't hit the EMTs and other then that I go about my merry little way. I was playing a round of golf a couple of years back when some old guy keeled over dead from a heart attack on the fairway of the seventh hole. Did I cancel my round and go ponder his death over beers in the club house? No, I waited patiently for EMS to clear the stiff and played through.

Point is, unless it's someone I know, and even then only if it's someone I give a shit about, I don't alter my day over seeing someone get hurt or die (outside of calling 911 if it's needed).

[Superboy]

I don't think it's an ethical thing at all. It's just that a lot of people would be (irrationally, perhaps) incredibly uncomfortable next to a corpse. The idea of sunbathing next to a dead person or splashing around in the water with two corpses near by just seems creepy. Being able to play around and enjoy yourself with 2 dead girls nearby takes a certain level of apathy that seems unnatural to some of us.

[Singular Intellect]

Being able to play around and enjoy yourself with 2 dead girls nearby takes a certain level of apathy that seems unnatural to some of us.

I'd assert that sometimes realistic and practical understanding of how the world works and what happens in it can be confused with apathy.

[aerius]

What if it had been someone dying of a heart attack in the middle of the beach? Do we still evacuate?

I'm thinking no.

Around 9 years ago or so I saw a guy jump off a viaduct and go splat on the road below. There's a park by the road as well, the cops had the road and part of the park closed off while the guy was threatening to jump, and there was a small crowd gathered around to watch the whole thing. After the guy splatted they closed all but one lane of the road and taped a 20'-25' square around the body, at which point most people went back to doing whatever they were doing. The park never cleared out at all, people went back to playing frisbee, football, or making out in the bushes. A few people puked their guts out and left, but only a few.