So Much for Tasers Being Non Lethal

[General Zod]

Sauce.

WINNFIELD, Louisiana (CNN) -- A police officer shocked a handcuffed Baron "Scooter" Pikes nine times with a Taser after arresting him on a cocaine charge.

He stopped twitching after seven, according to a coroner's report. Soon afterward, Pikes was dead.

Now the officer, since fired, could end up facing criminal charges in Pikes' January death after medical examiners ruled it a homicide.

Dr. Randolph Williams, the Winn Parish coroner, told CNN the 21-year-old sawmill worker was jolted so many times by the 50,000-volt Taser that he might have been dead before the last two shocks were delivered.

Williams ruled Pikes' death a homicide in June after extensive study.

Winn Parish District Attorney Christopher Nevils said he will decide on any charges against the ex-officer, Scott Nugent, once a Louisiana State Police report on the case is complete. Video Watch coroner describe how cop might've Tasered a dead man »

"It's taken several months for this case to even be properly addressed, so one has to wonder, why did it take so long?" said Carol Powell Lexing, a lawyer for the Pikes family. "Obviously, a wrongful death occurred."

Nugent's lawyer, Phillip Terrell, said his client followed proper procedure to subdue a man who outweighed him by 100 pounds. But Williams said Pikes was already handcuffed and on the ground when first hit with the Taser, after the 247-pound suspect was slow to follow police orders to get up.

Winnfield, a sleepy lumber town about 100 miles southeast of Shreveport, Louisiana, is best known as the birthplace of legendary Louisiana governors Huey and Earl Long. It's also about 45 miles northwest of Jena, Louisiana, where a racially charged assault case sparked a September 2007 demonstration by an estimated 15,000 people. Video Watch racism charges fly after Taser death »

One of the teenage defendants in that case, Mychal Bell, is Pikes' first cousin -- and his lawyer was Powell Lexing.

Nugent is white; Pikes was black. His death led to demonstrations that drew several dozen people in Winnfield, where the population of about 15,000 is roughly half African-American.

"The family wants justice," Lexing said. "This is just another example of why it's very important to stay vigilant with these types of cases, on the injustice that's been perpetrated on the disadvantaged."

But Winnfield police Lt. Chuck Curry said race "isn't an issue at all" in the matter.

"This has come down to a police officer that was trying to apprehend a suspect that they had warrants for," he said. "He done what he thought he was trained to do to bring that subject into custody. At some point, something happened with his body that caused him to go into cardiac arrest or whatever." See how Tasers work »

According to police, Pikes was wanted on a charge of possession of cocaine when police tried to arrest him outside a shopping center January 12.

"He would not stop for the officer," Curry said. "At some point in there, he was Tased to bring him under control, and several hours later, died at the emergency room."

Terrell said Pikes was fighting Nugent "on uneven ground" amid obstructions such as concrete blocks and barbed wire.

"He's fighting, wrestling with an individual who weighs 100 pounds more than him," he said. "His partner had just come back to the police department from triple bypass surgery and could not assist Officer Nugent."

Terrell said his client "used every means possible" to take Pikes into custody before pulling out his Taser, a weapon Winnfield police purchased in 2007.

"The only thing he could have done other than to say, 'OK, we're going to let you go' is to beat him or Tase him. He did the right thing," Terrell said.

Williams, who ruled Pikes' death a homicide in June after extensive study, said Nugent fired his Taser at Pikes six times in less than three minutes -- shots recorded by a computer chip in the weapon's handle. Then officers put Pikes in the back of a cruiser and drove him to their police station -- where Nugent fired a seventh shot, directly against Pikes' chest.

"After he was given that drive stun to the chest, he was pulled out of the car onto the concrete, " Williams told CNN. "He was electroshocked two more times, which two officers noted that he had no neuromuscular response to those last two 50,000-volt electroshocks."

Williams said he had two nationally known forensic pathologists, including former New York city medical examiner Michael Baden, review the case before issuing his conclusions. He said it's possible Nugent was shocking a dead man the last two times he pulled the trigger.

"This fellow was talking in the back seat of the car prior to shot number seven," he said. "From that point on, it becomes questionable [if Pikes was still alive]."

Curry said Pikes told officers he suffered from asthma and had been using PCP and crack cocaine. But Williams said he found no sign of drug use in the autopsy, and no record of asthma in Pikes' medical history.

In the year since Winnfield police received Tasers, officers have used them 14 times, according to police records -- with 12 of the instances involving black suspects. Ten of the 14 incidents involved Nugent, who has no public disciplinary record.

Nugent was suspended after Pikes' death, and Winnfield's City Council voted 3-2 to fire him in May. He is appealing his dismissal, and his lawyer says he followed proper procedures in Pikes' case. He was trained in the use of the Taser by a senior police officer who was present during the incident that led to Pikes' death, Terrell said.

Curry said Taser International, the device's manufacturer, indicates that "multiple Tasings do not affect a person." But he said he could not explain why Pikes was shocked so many times, and said whether Nugent followed proper procedure was "yet to be determined."

But a copy of the Winnfield Police Department's Taser training manual, obtained by CNN, says the device "shall only be deployed in circumstances where it is deemed reasonably necessary to control a dangerous or violent subject." And Williams said regulations regarding the use of Tasers were not followed.

"It violated every aspect -- every single aspect -- of the department's policy about its use," the coroner said.

Winnfield has seen a spate of high-profile corruption cases in recent years. One of Nevils' predecessors as district attorney, Terry Reeves, killed himself amid allegations of embezzlement and extortion. The town's current police chief, Johnny Ray Carpenter, is a convicted drug offender who received a pardon from former Louisiana Gov. Edwin Edwards who himself is now serving a federal prison term for racketeering.

And Carpenter's predecessor, Gleason Nugent -- the father of Pikes' arresting officer -- committed suicide in 2005, after allegations of fraud and vote buying in the race for police chief, an elected position in Winnfield.
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Now Nevils is awaiting the state police report on Pikes' death, which will be presented to a grand jury for possible charges against Nugent -- a possibility Curry said would be a blow to the department.

"It's one of these no-win situations," he said. "No matter the outcome, nobody's going to win in this case."

I still stand by points I've made before that tasers are useful tools and should be an available option, but after shit like this they clearly need much stricter regulation. You'd think the same asshole being responsible for the majority of taser usage (10 out of 14 incidents were because of Nugent?!) would have received some sort of investigation.

[Agent Fisher]

There is a reason why every police officer I've ever met, and all my law enforcement instructors, say that Tasers are Less Lethal weapons. Most of the Non Lethal weapons can kill. That being said, when I finally get done with all my schooling and training, I'm going to want to carry a Taser on me. Means I can bring get a suspect to comply without having to get up close and personall with him.

As for the officer? Yeah, the department should have realized they had a problem when over 70% of the usages of the Taser was from one officer.

[Darth Wong]

He actually blasted him three more times after getting him back to the station? Including a shot right over the heart? Wow. I don't see how his lawyer is going to explain this away.

[Galvatron]

"My client is clearly a sadistic, racist fuck, but he's a cop! That should count for something!"

[Commander 598]

Corruption? In my Louisiana? I'm just...speechless...

[Edi]

Galvatron has about the size of it there. The suspect was handcuffed. The suspect was repeatedly tasered after being handcuffed and died and the details make it clear that during those last times, there were several officers, plural, present and the suspect did not pose a threat.

That's a clearcut case of murder, so that useless fucknut should be locked away for the rest of his life.

[ArmorPierce]

There are clearly a lot of cops out there that are getting off on causing a lot of pain to their victim with the touch of the button. Maybe making it so easy to torture someone isn't a good thing?

[Kamakazie Sith]

Less Lethal, and non-lethal. It's just a semantics/liability game. All weapons have some potential to kill especially when they're abused.

The article uses the 50,000 volts as a buzz word. You're not actually hit by 50,000 volts. The actual voltage delivered to the body is closer to 1,500 volts and .002 to .03 amps.

The taser induced an underlying condition that killed Pikes. If what the officers state is true and he had been using PCP and cocaine then that was probably another contributor. Other corners have found that some people who have died from taser deployments have had cocaine in their system.

That being said I hope they throw that abusive cop away for a long time.

[Kamakazie Sith]

There are clearly a lot of cops out there that are getting off on causing a lot of pain to their victim with the touch of the button. Maybe making it so easy to torture someone isn't a good thing?

Even without the taser it would still be easy for police like this guy to hurt people. The taser is painful, but being hit in the face by a baton hurts a lot more.

[General Zod]

There are clearly a lot of cops out there that are getting off on causing a lot of pain to their victim with the touch of the button. Maybe making it so easy to torture someone isn't a good thing?

Or perhaps they just need more oversight. Taking away tasers as an option is retarded when the only other alternatives put the cop at risk in subduing a suspect or threaten the suspect's life far worse than a taser would. This mess could have been prevented if they'd actually conducted an investigation after realizing so many taser incidents involved the same cop.

[Death from the Sea]

Unfortunately there are departments that don't really regulate the usage of tasers and other force options. Well, maybe not regulate so much as monitor. My department has strict guidelines for use of force and if such force is used then it is reviewed. Taserings are reviewed by a panel from the department to see if it was legit. The panel idea came about after we had the taser for sometime and some officers were using the taser alot. Their usage of the taser somewhat lessened after the panel started reviewing taserings.

[VT-16]

If what the officers state is true and he had been using PCP and cocaine then that was probably another contributor. Other corners have found that some people who have died from taser deployments have had cocaine in their system.

Bolded for emphasis:

Curry said Pikes told officers he suffered from asthma and had been using PCP and crack cocaine. But Williams said he found no sign of drug use in the autopsy, and no record of asthma in Pikes' medical history.

The coroner stated this, it's not speculation.

[Kamakazie Sith]

If what the officers state is true and he had been using PCP and cocaine then that was probably another contributor. Other corners have found that some people who have died from taser deployments have had cocaine in their system.

Bolded for emphasis:

Curry said Pikes told officers he suffered from asthma and had been using PCP and crack cocaine. But Williams said he found no sign of drug use in the autopsy, and no record of asthma in Pikes' medical history.

The coroner stated this, it's not speculation.

Ahh thanks, but it still doesn't change my point.

[General Zod]

Ahh thanks, but it still doesn't change my point.

Your point is that he was most likely killed due to an "underlying" condition, which is nonsense when there's nothing that indicates this whatsoever in the article. People die from electrocution often enough and it's safe to say that too much of anything can kill someone. It's seems pretty clear he was killed from being shocked too much.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Ahh thanks, but it still doesn't change my point.

Your point is that he was most likely killed due to an "underlying" condition, which is nonsense when there's nothing that indicates this whatsoever in the article. People die from electrocution often enough and it's safe to say that too much of anything can kill someone. It's seems pretty clear he was killed from being shocked too much.

No, my point is the taser induced an underlying condition which killed him. Hundreds of thousands of law enforcement officers have been tasered, but none have died thus far. Out of the thousands of taser deployments very few have resulted in death...even in multiple taser uses on the same person.

[Rahvin]

Ahh thanks, but it still doesn't change my point.

Your point is that he was most likely killed due to an "underlying" condition, which is nonsense when there's nothing that indicates this whatsoever in the article. People die from electrocution often enough and it's safe to say that too much of anything can kill someone. It's seems pretty clear he was killed from being shocked too much.

No, my point is the taser induced an underlying condition which killed him. Hundreds of thousands of law enforcement officers have been tasered, but none have died thus far. Out of the thousands of taser deployments very few have resulted in death...even in multiple taser uses on the same person.

7-9 times? Including at minimum one directly to the chest?

The coroner said nothing about a pre-existing medical condition. He didn't even detect traces of recent drug use.

Your reference to law enforcement self-tests are irrelevant if the testing bears little resemblance to the actual event.

[General Zod]

No, my point is the taser induced an underlying condition which killed him.

Unless the autopsy specifically says so, I'm calling bullshit. That's like saying a poison victim wasn't killed by the poison but was killed by the cardiac arrest the poison induced.

Hundreds of thousands of law enforcement officers have been tasered, but none have died thus far. Out of the thousands of taser deployments very few have resulted in death...even in multiple taser uses on the same person.

How many of these "multiple" taserings involved being tasered nine times in a relatively short period of time?

[ArmorPierce]

Well I'm not suggesting taking away tasers but make it so that officers use it less willy nilly (as you said more regulations). Of course a baton to the face is going to hurt but it's going to require a lot more effort than pushing a button multiple times.

[Isolder74]

The prpper term is less then lethal.

[Elfdart]

Tasers are portable Milgram Experiments.

Seriously, any jolts given to a suspect who is already cuffed should be considered felony assault at minimum and attempted murder if done repeatedly.

[Justforfun000]

I feel Tasers are useful tools in extreme circumstances, but if it was up to me I'd have the right to use them very damn close to the restrictions placed on guns. There are far too many potential conditions like heart problems, substance abuse and so forth that can completely change the so called "safe" usage of tasers into a potential disaster.

I agree with others who feel that some officers just get off on the easy way they can cause somebody excruciating pain when they ask someone to jump and they don't quickly ask "how high". It's sadistic macho bullshit that makes them feel superior. I'm sure the percentage of fucknuts like this asshole above is quite low, but what's more shameful is the department not responding to the statistics showing how trigger happy the asshole was.

I hope they find him guilty or murder. There is no way in hell he can justify using the taser after the guy has been subdued and handcuffed. He's just proving himself to be a sadistic fucktard.

[Kamakazie Sith]

7-9 times? Including at minimum one directly to the chest?

A large majority of them are to the chest since that is the target area.

The coroner said nothing about a pre-existing medical condition. He didn't even detect traces of recent drug use.

I didn't say pre-exiting. I said underlying. Like excited delirium which is very probable since the cop had engaged in a physical fight with the victim prior to being tasered.

Your reference to law enforcement self-tests are irrelevant if the testing bears little resemblance to the actual event.

Agreed. Those training deployments, and the other thousands of deployments are relevant because the target area is the chest.

There are also studies that demonstrate that a taser simply aren't strong enough to effect the heart in any appreciable manner.

Here's one.

Source
Cardiac Current Density Distribution by Electrical Pulses from TASER devices Kroll MW, McDaniel W, Panescu D, Stratbucker RA., Conf Proc IEEE Eng Med Biol Soc. 2006;1(1):6305-6307
TASERs deliver electrical pulses that can temporarily incapacitate subjects. The goal of this paper is to analyze the distribution of TASER currents in the heart and understand their chances of triggering cardiac arrhythmias. Methods and Results: The models analyzed herein describe strength-duration thresholds for myocyte excitation and ventricular fibrillation induction. Finite element modeling is used to compute current density in the heart for worst-case TASER electrode placement. The model predicts maximum TASER current-density of 0.27 mA/cm2 in the heart. Conclusion: Numerically simulated TASER heart current density is about half the threshold for myocytes excitation and more than 500 times lower than the threshold required for inducing ventricular fibrillation. Showing a substantial cardiac safety margin, TASER devices do not generate currents in the heart that are high enough to excite myocytes or trigger VF.

[Death from the Sea]

Tasers are portable Milgram Experiments.

Seriously, any jolts given to a suspect who is already cuffed should be considered felony assault at minimum and attempted murder if done repeatedly.

handcuffs do not automatically make a suspect incapable of doing harm, so that idea really doesn't work.

[Glocksman]

Tasers are portable Milgram Experiments.

Seriously, any jolts given to a suspect who is already cuffed should be considered felony assault at minimum and attempted murder if done repeatedly.

handcuffs do not automatically make a suspect incapable of doing harm, so that idea really doesn't work.

I agree with you because I've heard a lot of the local police bitch about how uncontrollable meth addicts can be.
That said, if an autopsy reveals the dead suspect to have been both drug and alcohol free, then the cop had better have videotape of the suspect resisting even after arrest and handcuffing, or I'm voting to convict the SOB if I were on the jury.

[Pablo Sanchez]

I didn't say pre-exiting. I said underlying. Like excited delirium

What is Excited Delirium? I googled this phenomena but pretty much all of the hits mentioned it in connection with police action, especially in cases of deaths following tasering or close restraint. This is a little suspicious, but could be due more to the media only paying attention to it when the police report it. But then again, it isn't recognized by the AMA or the APA, and does not appear in the DSM-IV. Taken together that makes a bit of a credibility problem.

which is very probable since the cop had engaged in a physical fight with the victim prior to being tasered.

Listing something as a "contributing factor" in an accidental death is misleading. It's a simple question: would the victim have died, had he not been tasered? If the answer is no, then we have an approximate cause of death.

I mean, say you've got a freight elevator that can move 2 tons safely, and we have 3 tons of stuff. I come in and put 2 tons of gear on it, and then go upstairs so I'm there to unload it. Meantime, you load the remaining ton on it, the cable snaps, and everything plummets to the bottom of the shaft, total SNAFU. Now, do we say that you fucked our shit up by overloading the elevator, or do we say that it was a "contributing factor" in the accident, and in fact I was the responsible party because overall I put more weight on it?

Obviously the police can't be expected to ask every belligerent and dangerous suspect if he has a heart condition or has been using stimulants, but given that tasers have been listed as a "contributing factor" in some deaths, they should probably be used with care. In this case, they weren't, and I'm pleased to see that the offender is being dealt with appropriately.

On the other hand, I have to ask what would have happened if the victim had been tasered nine times, including several times while under restraint, and hadn't died. If there hadn't been a serious mishap that forced an investigation, would the officer have faced any repercussions at all? Judging by the fact that he was zapping people left and right before the incident without cause for concern, I guess not.

There are also studies that demonstrate that a taser simply aren't strong enough to effect the heart in any appreciable manner.

Your link doesn't work for me.

The abstract claims the study demonstrates that the taser lacks the power to directly affect the heart, which I'm prepared to believe, but it doesn't say anything about whether the primary effects of the taser on the victim (convulsions, pain, disorientation, etc.) can cause cardiac events as a secondary effect.