Obama conquers Europe

[Shroom Man 777]

When a quarter million foreigners gather en mass to listen to Obama, how can anyone criticize him on the grounds of "foreign policy"?

[FSTargetDrone]

When a quarter million foreigners gather en mass to listen to Obama, how can anyone criticize him on the grounds of "foreign policy"?

Someone whose grasping at straws, struggling to be seen and heard over the massive coverage of his opponent. Note that McCain went to Canada and Mexico recently, but I guess that's not technically "overseas" so he can criticize Obama, well, somehow. He complained Obama didn't go to Iraq then complained when he did go to Iraq.

It's really quite pathetic.

[Darksider]

I can't help but get a mental image of Obama giving a huge press conference with millions in attendance while McCain stands way back in the corner, jumping up and down and demanding that people pay attention to him.

[Dahak]

When a quarter million foreigners gather en mass to listen to Obama, how can anyone criticize him on the grounds of "foreign policy"?

Because it's just a nice tour around the world with a good speech in Berlin. He didn't "do" foreign policy.

[Shroom Man 777]

I can't help but get a mental image of Obama giving a huge press conference with millions in attendance while McCain stands way back in the corner, jumping up and down and demanding that people pay attention to him.

He better be careful - he might get a heart attack and die.

Why did McCain complain about Obama visiting Iraq? Is it just another showing of Barack Obama's empty promises and inexperience in foreign policy that the Iraqi leadership finds his stances very agreeable?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

McCain is just screaming for attention these days. Pay him no heed.

[General Zod]

I find it hilarious that McCain is coming off as the Republican version of Kerry in 04 with each new article. Completely bland and uninspiring.

[Patrick Degan]

Brilliant politicking on Obama's part. This one trip gets him tons of free media coverage with images of throngs cheering him and waiting to hear his every word, while McCain's video shows him warbling before crowds of tens or maybe a couple hundred in some supermarket in Canada or Duluth. Obama speaks with energy, McCain as if he's missed his Vitamin-B dose for that part of the day. Obama is already projecting a presidential image nationally and internationally which McCain hasn't managed throughout his whole campaign. His popularity with the European crowds also indirectly helps his outreach with voters in that Americans who have relatives in the countries included in Obama EuroTour 08 will be writing them about how impressive he was and how they've got an American leader to cheer for again.

Obama also, by hitting on the political component of foreign relations, which the stupid chimp ignored so gleefully for most of his reign, makes the notice of think tank analysts who will register how Obama has impressed foreign leaders, who will be inclined to take him more seriously than The Gimp —who's last big foreign tour had him touting how safe Baghdad was while walking in flak vest with a phalanx of armed Marines surrounding him and hasn't really attempted any sort of outreach on the international stage to the level that Obama has just managed. And that will show up in their analyses of the two candidates in regards to which one is more likely to work better on the international stage.

Obama is attacking on three fronts simultaneously with minimal effort and reaping huge p.r. and political gains in the bargain. The Gimp only flails helplessly trying to prove he's relevant to anything going on in any real world. Huge coup.

[Darth Onasi]

When a quarter million foreigners gather en mass to listen to Obama, how can anyone criticize him on the grounds of "foreign policy"?

Because it's just a nice tour around the world with a good speech in Berlin. He didn't "do" foreign policy.

A good first step in foreign policy is to get the foreign people to actually like you; this is a concept W. Bush wouldn't understand if you beat it into him with a lead pipe. Obama whoever demonstrates he does, and that can only be good.

[Darth Onasi]

ghetto edit: whoever = however.

[Darth Wong]

McCain is just screaming for attention these days. Pay him no heed.

That should read: "McCain is just plaintively whining in a thin, frail voice for attention these days. Pay him no heed."

I don't think he's actually capable of screaming.

[The Spartan]

When a quarter million foreigners gather en mass to listen to Obama, how can anyone criticize him on the grounds of "foreign policy"?

Because his foreign policy is not in-line with current right wing politics and is therefore, what's the phrase I heard someone use... "childishly ignorant."

[hongi]

I just watched the speech.


This man needs to be president.

Get to it America.

I couldn't agree more. It feels like for the first time in eight long years, you can in good faith cheer for a US politician. Seeing people waving the stars and stripes without setting them on fire was a weird sight...

The weird part is that even that report doesn't come close to doing it justice.

It's one of the best speeches i've watched this year from any politician.

I think I've gotten so used to his brilliant speeches that this one sort of pales in comparison. Of course, everything he said in the Berlin speech was spot on. You can't remain isolationist in economics or foreign policy in order to deal with the current problems.

Some conservatives simply miss the point. European nations don't have to like you, nor do you have to like them in order for the two to work together. Whatever happens, it's necessary. It's impossible to fix Afghanistan (to say the least, what about global warming?) without greater co-ordination between the two sides of the Atlantic.

[Darth Wong]

When a quarter million foreigners gather en mass to listen to Obama, how can anyone criticize him on the grounds of "foreign policy"?

Because his foreign policy is not in-line with current right wing politics and is therefore, what's the phrase I heard someone use... "childishly ignorant."

The problem is that these people run everything through a "bully" filter for foreign policy, where the objective of all foreign policy is to literally make every other nation on Earth obey America's every whim.

Of course, this is impossible, but historically, the only way to force nations to obey you has been through unrestricted use of military power. Anything short of that is doomed to failure, so in their minds, any approach other than maximum military bellicosity is foolish and stupid.

In their words, "Obama thinks that if you just ask them nicely, they will do what we want". The point here is that nothing can realistically make them "do what we want". But negotiation can potentially make them do something somewhere between what they want and what we want, and at far lesser cost to both parties.

In short, the right-wingers' problem is that they think all foreign policy has the ultimate objective of forcing obedience from every other country on Earth. They deride any non-military approach for its inability to achieve this goal, but they ignore the fact that even a military approach cannot feasibly achieve this goal without essentially unlimited power, which even America does not have.

[Durandal]

When a quarter million foreigners gather en mass to listen to Obama, how can anyone criticize him on the grounds of "foreign policy"?

Because it's just a nice tour around the world with a good speech in Berlin. He didn't "do" foreign policy.

He met with political leaders in every country, including the Iraqi prime minister, who endorses his policy for phased troop withdrawal. I think that counts.

[Trogdor]

Obama is attacking on three fronts simultaneously with minimal effort and reaping huge p.r. and political gains in the bargain. The Gimp only flails helplessly trying to prove he's relevant to anything going on in any real world. Huge coup.

I wouldn't go as far as calling it a huge coup, as for reasons I cannot comprehend, the the race is tightening up.

Unfortunately, popularity with the Europeans does not seem to translate into popularity with the Americans, and while the former would certainly help a President Obama, Candidate Obama needs the latter.

[Ender]

Well, I was making a crack, but apparently Ben Stien is serious. Obama = Hitler

On the July 23 edition of CNN Headline News' Glenn Beck, guest Ben Stein, while discussing Sen. Barack Obama's plan to deliver his speech accepting the Democratic presidential nomination at Denver's Invesco Field, stated that he did not "like the idea of Senator Obama giving his acceptance speech in front of 75,000 wildly cheering people" because "[t]hat is not the way we do things in political parties in the United States of America." Stein continued: "Seventy-five-thousand people at an outdoor sports palace, well, that's something the Fuehrer would have done. And I think whoever is advising Senator Obama to do this is bringing up all kinds of very unfortunate images from the past."

Host Beck responded that he has "been saying that we're headed towards a Mussolini-style presidency forever. ... I mean it's crazy." Stein then declared, "It's a scary situation. ... But 75,000 people screaming in an outdoor arena, that's just too much. It's just -- it's scarily authoritarian." He continued: "It's like Juan Peron and Evita."

Stein is not the first guest on Glenn Beck to compare Obama to Adolf Hitler. On February 22, National Review Online editor-at-large Jonah Goldberg said: "I think one of the things that is decidedly fascistic, or at least just a bad idea, is looking for silver bullets. You know, when Barack Obama campaigns, he's basically saying, 'I'm a silver bullet. I'm going to solve all your problems just by electing me.' FDR, Hitler, all these guys, they basically said, 'All your problems can be solved.' "

From the July 23 edition of CNN Headline News' Glenn Beck:

STEIN: I want -- I'm glad you brought up this Denver thing. I don't like the idea of Senator Obama giving his acceptance speech in front of 75,000 wildly cheering people. That is not the way we do things in political parties in the United States of America. We have a contained number of people in an arena. Seventy-five-thousand people at an outdoor sports palace, well, that's something the Fuehrer would have done. And I think whoever is advising Senator Obama to do this is bringing up all kinds of very unfortunate images from the past.

BECK: Well, yeah, you know what? I've been -- I've been saying that we're headed towards a Mussolini-style presidency forever.

STEIN: Well, I think --

BECK: I mean it's crazy.

STEIN: It's a scary situation. I mean, I think he has to recognize some bounds on his own ego. I understand politicians are politicians because they have ego deficit problems and they try to cure them by having lots of worship and adulation and adoration. But 75,000 people screaming at an outdoor arena, that's just too much. It's just -- it's scarily authoritarian.

BECK: Ben --

STEIN: It's like Juan Peron --

BECK: It's not --

STEIN: -- and Evita.

BECK: It's not gonna make a difference.

Video at the link.

[General Zod]

STEIN: It's a scary situation. I mean, I think he has to recognize some bounds on his own ego. I understand politicians are politicians because they have ego deficit problems and they try to cure them by having lots of worship and adulation and adoration. But 75,000 people screaming at an outdoor arena, that's just too much. It's just -- it's scarily authoritarian.

Didn't JFK and FDR draw crowds several times larger?

[Ender]

Obama is attacking on three fronts simultaneously with minimal effort and reaping huge p.r. and political gains in the bargain. The Gimp only flails helplessly trying to prove he's relevant to anything going on in any real world. Huge coup.

I wouldn't go as far as calling it a huge coup, as for reasons I cannot comprehend, the the race is tightening up.

Unfortunately, popularity with the Europeans does not seem to translate into popularity with the Americans, and while the former would certainly help a President Obama, Candidate Obama needs the latter.

Real Clear Politics disagrees. Obama is stomping by most every metric you can use. Here is a breakdown of the stats.

According to realclearpolitics.com, Obama is currently leading in 26 states and the District of Columbia with a total of 322 electoral votes; McCain is currently leading in 24 states with a total of 216 electoral votes. Obama is leading in every state carried by John Kerry in 2004 along with six states carried by George Bush: Iowa, New Mexico, Ohio, Indiana, Nevada and Colorado. A seventh Bush state, Virginia, is tied.

Obama is leading in 11 of the 12 swing states that were decided by a margin of five points or less in 2004 including five of the six that were carried by George Bush. And while Obama has a comfortable lead in every state that John Kerry won by a margin of more than five points in 2004, McCain is in a difficult battle in a number of states that Bush carried by a margin of more than five points including such solidly red states as Indiana, Montana, North Dakota, Virginia, and North Carolina.

And remember these June and July polls may well understate Obama's eventual margin. Ronald Reagan did not capitalize on the huge structural advantage Republicans enjoyed in 1980 until after the party conventions and presidential debate. It took a while and a sufficient level of comfort with the challenger for anti-Carter votes to translate into support for Reagan. If Obama's performance over the last eighteen months is any guide, a similar pattern could unfold in 2008.

CNN and them are hyping it as a close race? I say good. If they were saying it was a forgone conclusions it would prompt the Dems to rest on their laurels and the fringe to go at it with more gusto thanks to their "down by 30 with 10 seconds to go, we can still win" mentality. Let CNN and MSN and everybody pimp this as anything other then a curbstomp. I'm cool with it.

[MichaelFerrariF1]

But 75,000 people screaming in an outdoor arena, that's just too much. It's just -- it's scarily authoritarian."

Authoritarian.



Authoritarian.



Authoritarian.

Football, soccer, and racing are clearly trying to take over the world.

[MichaelFerrariF1]

Edit: [sarcasm]...[/sarcasm]

[Patrick Degan]

On the July 23 edition of CNN Headline News' Glenn Beck, guest Ben Stein, while discussing Sen. Barack Obama's plan to deliver his speech accepting the Democratic presidential nomination at Denver's Invesco Field, stated that he did not "like the idea of Senator Obama giving his acceptance speech in front of 75,000 wildly cheering people" because "[t]hat is not the way we do things in political parties in the United States of America." Stein continued: "Seventy-five-thousand people at an outdoor sports palace, well, that's something the Fuehrer would have done. And I think whoever is advising Senator Obama to do this is bringing up all kinds of very unfortunate images from the past."

Host Beck responded that he has "been saying that we're headed towards a Mussolini-style presidency forever. ... I mean it's crazy." Stein then declared, "It's a scary situation. ... But 75,000 people screaming in an outdoor arena, that's just too much. It's just -- it's scarily authoritarian." He continued: "It's like Juan Peron and Evita."

Stein is not the first guest on Glenn Beck to compare Obama to Adolf Hitler. On February 22, National Review Online editor-at-large Jonah Goldberg said: "I think one of the things that is decidedly fascistic, or at least just a bad idea, is looking for silver bullets. You know, when Barack Obama campaigns, he's basically saying, 'I'm a silver bullet. I'm going to solve all your problems just by electing me.' FDR, Hitler, all these guys, they basically said, 'All your problems can be solved.' "

From the July 23 edition of CNN Headline News' Glenn Beck:

STEIN: I want -- I'm glad you brought up this Denver thing. I don't like the idea of Senator Obama giving his acceptance speech in front of 75,000 wildly cheering people. That is not the way we do things in political parties in the United States of America. We have a contained number of people in an arena. Seventy-five-thousand people at an outdoor sports palace, well, that's something the Fuehrer would have done. And I think whoever is advising Senator Obama to do this is bringing up all kinds of very unfortunate images from the past.

BECK: Well, yeah, you know what? I've been -- I've been saying that we're headed towards a Mussolini-style presidency forever.

STEIN: Well, I think --

BECK: I mean it's crazy.

STEIN: It's a scary situation. I mean, I think he has to recognize some bounds on his own ego. I understand politicians are politicians because they have ego deficit problems and they try to cure them by having lots of worship and adulation and adoration. But 75,000 people screaming at an outdoor arena, that's just too much. It's just -- it's scarily authoritarian.

BECK: Ben --

STEIN: It's like Juan Peron --

BECK: It's not --

STEIN: -- and Evita.

BECK: It's not gonna make a difference.

They're just in their own little world, aren't they?

[Shroom Man 777]

Yeah... it is fascistic and un-American. Like Franklin Delano Roosevelt?

Why do they think FDR is evil?

[Patrick Degan]

Yeah... it is fascistic and un-American. Like Franklin Delano Roosevelt?

Why do they think FDR is evil?

That's been part of the Right Wing music score since 1932, when he maliciously plotted to actually do something about the Great Depression. That he beat up on their secret pal Hitler probably has something to do with it as well...

[hongi]

People, please. We all know that Obama is a Muslim, not a Nazi. Which makes the title of this thread that much scarier (for the right): "MUSLIM CONQUERS EUROPE".