Obama conquers Europe

American Infidel · Post by **American Infidel** » 2008-07-28 06:24am

What I was interested in hearing that he didn't explain was HOW he was going to contain the spread of nuclear weapons. HOW he will work towards a world without nuclear weapons. HOW he is going to get more Germans to go off and die for America. HOW he is going to "rout the terrorists in afganistan". HOW he is going to tear down the walls between tribes or whatever. HOW he is going to intervene in Darfur and WHY I should give a damn. HOW he will make trade more equitable in America and around the world.

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2008-07-28 06:28am

And has McCain given any of these HOWs? Has George W. Bush given any of these HOWs? Has ANYONE explained what they're going to do? No.

But, yeah. We've had two years of George W. Bush. So, I guess we don't need McCain to elucidate upon us HOW he and his GOP fuckbuddies intend to put the world further into the shitter it's already in.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2008-07-28 06:29am

When was the last time you saw a public speech - essentially a PR event - that concerned itself with the finer points of execution? The goal of a trip like the one Obama has done is to present his intentions, not give you a point-by-point plan on how to achieve them.

Post by **weemadando** » 2008-07-28 06:31am

I love the response of the media (who apparently all love Obama according to McCain) following this:

"Well what the hell is he doing overseas when our economy is in crisis here? Why isn't he focusing on domestic issues."

This of course, comes on the heels of their "He needs to go to Iraq and Afghanistan and other places to show that he understands foreign policy."

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2008-07-28 06:32am

Fuck it. I meant 'two terms' of George W. Bush. Not two years. Fucking...

Maybe American Infidel would prefer Obama to present his point-by-point plan in Powerpoint. At least Obama probably knows how to do that. McCain doesn't even know how to use computers, right?

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2008-07-28 06:32am

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/ObamaBlu ... Change.pdf

He's got a condensed version of the "how" as a flyer on his site.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2008-07-28 06:44am

Bounty wrote:http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/ObamaBlu ... Change.pdf

He's got a condensed version of the "how" as a flyer on his site.

It's a pretty good read. Obviously a campaign brouchure, but has more detail than I expected.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2008-07-28 06:45am

American Infidel wrote:What I was interested in hearing that he didn't explain was HOW he was going to contain the spread of nuclear weapons. HOW he will work towards a world without nuclear weapons. HOW he is going to get more Germans to go off and die for America. HOW he is going to "rout the terrorists in afganistan". HOW he is going to tear down the walls between tribes or whatever. HOW he is going to intervene in Darfur and WHY I should give a damn. HOW he will make trade more equitable in America and around the world.

Because every political speech must contain detailed plans on solving complicated issues.

I guess he should've whipped out a laptop and proceeded to give a six-hour presentation with numbers and pie charts and bill proposals and strategies for getting unwilling congressmen on board. I'm sure all those people would've loved to hear all that.

Christ, get your head checked out.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2008-07-28 06:48am

Ace Pace wrote:
Bounty wrote:http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/ObamaBlu ... Change.pdf

He's got a condensed version of the "how" as a flyer on his site.
It's a pretty good read. Obviously a campaign brouchure, but has more detail than I expected.

As I said, it's the Cliff notes version of his plans. Follow the links at the end of the chapters, many of them have more detail.

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2008-07-28 08:09am

PeZook wrote:I guess he should've whipped out a laptop and proceeded to give a six-hour presentation with numbers and pie charts and bill proposals and strategies for getting unwilling congressmen on board. I'm sure all those people would've loved to hear all that.

Christ, get your head checked out.

Probably swallowed too much of the bad pill called the "American Media" who obviously need something new to bitch about.

While McCain rails about this and that, and now is indulging in another round of "SUPPORT THE TROOPS RARAR!".

Yeah, that's wonderfully full of substance.

Ziggy Stardust · Post by **Ziggy Stardust** » 2008-07-28 09:02am

American Infidel wrote:HOW he is going to intervene in Darfur and WHY I should give a damn.

So ... it's Obama's fault that you are a blithering imbecile who doesn't understand the situation in Darfur despite the fact that it has been broadly reported in the news for some time now? It's a god-damned genocide, and everybody else understands that. Except, apparently, for you.

Honestly, did the Emancipation Proclamation give a detailed description of how the slaves were to be freed and integrated back into society? Did MLK Jr.'s "I have a dream" speech contain an in-depth analysis of the socioeconomic situation of black Americans and the appropriate economic measures to offset this? On the other hand, I guess I should be comforted that Obama is in such a strong position that you have to make up such ludicrous bullshit just to criticize him.

American Infidel · Post by **American Infidel** » 2008-07-28 02:57pm

PeZook wrote:Because every political speech must contain detailed plans on solving complicated issues.

I guess he should've whipped out a laptop and proceeded to give a six-hour presentation with numbers and pie charts and bill proposals and strategies for getting unwilling congressmen on board. I'm sure all those people would've loved to hear all that.

For a speech that is supposed to get him taken more seriously on foreign policy; he should have at least a few words to say about how he's going to do what he wants to do. It's not an unreasonable expectation and it wouldn't be too hard for whoever wrote this speech to add in a little more to flesh these points out.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2008-07-28 03:00pm

It's not an unreasonable expectation

You're right, it's not an unreasonable expectation. Nor is it a valid criticism if you chooses not to go into too much detail, if these details are freely available and, in fact, openly advertized.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2008-07-28 03:07pm

Oh, yeah - now it's just about "a little more detail"

American Infidel · Post by **American Infidel** » 2008-07-28 03:22pm

Ziggy Stardust wrote:
American Infidel wrote:HOW he is going to intervene in Darfur and WHY I should give a damn.
So ... it's Obama's fault that you are a blithering imbecile who doesn't understand the situation in Darfur despite the fact that it has been broadly reported in the news for some time now? It's a god-damned genocide, and everybody else understands that. Except, apparently, for you.

Stop the presses! It's a genocide! I'm glad you were here to let me know, fucking moron. That makes Mr. Obama's ideas on the matter so much more clear.

Rahvin · Post by **Rahvin** » 2008-07-28 03:38pm

American Infidel wrote:
Ziggy Stardust wrote:
American Infidel wrote:HOW he is going to intervene in Darfur and WHY I should give a damn.
So ... it's Obama's fault that you are a blithering imbecile who doesn't understand the situation in Darfur despite the fact that it has been broadly reported in the news for some time now? It's a god-damned genocide, and everybody else understands that. Except, apparently, for you.
Stop the presses! It's a genocide! I'm glad you were here to let me know, fucking moron. That makes Mr. Obama's ideas on the matter so much more clear.

...so, the fact that a genocide is occurring is not reason enough for you to "give a damn" on its face? Because that's what you just said, fuckwit.

So are you an uncaring heartless psychopath who couldn't give two shits if another Holocaust happens as long as it doesn't happen to you, or are you just a fucking moron who needs to have a reason for outrage and action over a genocide explained to him?

American Infidel · Post by **American Infidel** » 2008-07-28 03:39pm

Bounty wrote:
It's not an unreasonable expectation
You're right, it's not an unreasonable expectation. Nor is it a valid criticism if you chooses not to go into too much detail, if these details are freely available and, in fact, openly advertized.

There aren't enough supporting statements in this speech dealing with what he wants to do. Detail that is freely available elsewhere doesn't improve the speech that he gave.

Thanks for the PDF.

American Infidel · Post by **American Infidel** » 2008-07-28 03:49pm

Rahvin wrote:
American Infidel wrote:
Ziggy Stardust wrote: So ... it's Obama's fault that you are a blithering imbecile who doesn't understand the situation in Darfur despite the fact that it has been broadly reported in the news for some time now? It's a god-damned genocide, and everybody else understands that. Except, apparently, for you.
Stop the presses! It's a genocide! I'm glad you were here to let me know, fucking moron. That makes Mr. Obama's ideas on the matter so much more clear.
...so, the fact that a genocide is occurring is not reason enough for you to "give a damn" on its face? Because that's what you just said, fuckwit.

So are you an uncaring heartless psychopath who couldn't give two shits if another Holocaust happens as long as it doesn't happen to you, or are you just a fucking moron who needs to have a reason for outrage and action over a genocide explained to him?

Somebody didn't take thier meds today.

Rahvin · Post by **Rahvin** » 2008-07-28 03:54pm

American Infidel wrote:
Rahvin wrote:
American Infidel wrote: Stop the presses! It's a genocide! I'm glad you were here to let me know, fucking moron. That makes Mr. Obama's ideas on the matter so much more clear.
...so, the fact that a genocide is occurring is not reason enough for you to "give a damn" on its face? Because that's what you just said, fuckwit.

So are you an uncaring heartless psychopath who couldn't give two shits if another Holocaust happens as long as it doesn't happen to you, or are you just a fucking moron who needs to have a reason for outrage and action over a genocide explained to him?
Somebody didn't take thier meds today.

I'm sorry, was that supposed to be a witty retort? Would you care to actually respond, possibly with a retraction or clarification that would make you look like less of a waste of skin who doesn't understand why you should "give a damn" about genocide? Or would you prefer to make another content-void +1 post?

Post by **Gandalf** » 2008-07-28 03:56pm

That doesn't answer the question of why you apparently don't give a damn about Darfur.

MichaelFerrariF1 · Post by **MichaelFerrariF1** » 2008-07-28 04:30pm

American Infidel wrote:HOW he is going to intervene in Darfur and WHY I should give a damn.

And the fact that people are being murdered isn't enough for you?

Post by **weemadando** » 2008-07-28 04:41pm

American Infidel wrote:HOW he is going to intervene in Darfur and WHY I should give a damn.

How? Perhaps by finally having America do something constructive in Africa? Rather than dumping money into faith-based charities which perpetuate the suffering of a great many, they can instead put the money into backing the AU peacekeeping forces, or perhaps even into the UN security council to get actual peacekeepers in there.

Lets not forget that it would be in America's interest to break into Africa again as "the good guy" to shut down a lot of the Chinese expansion there. So, just for you sociopaths, it's not ALL about just stopping a genocide as if that wasn't enough for you.

And it's not like the US doesn't have assets in place to support operations in Sudan right now (bases in Djibouti and Saudi Arabia), even if it isn't US forces on the ground, stopping the Sudanese Air Force would be a huge start - and it's not like running a quick strike on the Sudanese Air Force with general world approval could be a bad thing for the US given how the world sees them now.

After all, it would stop them from being able to bomb villages in a remarkable string of coincidences where the villages just happen to be the ones where that completely separate from the government militia is about to commit atrocities.

You seem to be one of these people who are a strong believer in American superiority and manifest destiny. So how about actually stepping into those big shoes and seeing that America with minimal effort can go a long way towards bettering the world?

American Infidel · Post by **American Infidel** » 2008-07-28 08:52pm

weemadando wrote:
American Infidel wrote:HOW he is going to intervene in Darfur and WHY I should give a damn.
How? Perhaps by finally having America do something constructive in Africa? Rather than dumping money into faith-based charities which perpetuate the suffering of a great many, they can instead put the money into backing the AU peacekeeping forces, or perhaps even into the UN security council to get actual peacekeepers in there.

Lets not forget that it would be in America's interest to break into Africa again as "the good guy" to shut down a lot of the Chinese expansion there. So, just for you sociopaths, it's not ALL about just stopping a genocide as if that wasn't enough for you.

And it's not like the US doesn't have assets in place to support operations in Sudan right now (bases in Djibouti and Saudi Arabia), even if it isn't US forces on the ground, stopping the Sudanese Air Force would be a huge start - and it's not like running a quick strike on the Sudanese Air Force with general world approval could be a bad thing for the US given how the world sees them now.

After all, it would stop them from being able to bomb villages in a remarkable string of coincidences where the villages just happen to be the ones where that completely separate from the government militia is about to commit atrocities.

You seem to be one of these people who are a strong believer in American superiority and manifest destiny. So how about actually stepping into those big shoes and seeing that America with minimal effort can go a long way towards bettering the world?

Well, good job. You did a better job persuading me than BHO did in Berlin.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2008-07-28 09:24pm

Could have something to do with Europeans not being Americans; he WAS talking to a bunch of Germans, after all, and their attitudes are different.

Rahvin · Post by **Rahvin** » 2008-07-28 09:43pm

American Infidel wrote:
weemadando wrote:
American Infidel wrote:HOW he is going to intervene in Darfur and WHY I should give a damn.
How? Perhaps by finally having America do something constructive in Africa? Rather than dumping money into faith-based charities which perpetuate the suffering of a great many, they can instead put the money into backing the AU peacekeeping forces, or perhaps even into the UN security council to get actual peacekeepers in there.

Lets not forget that it would be in America's interest to break into Africa again as "the good guy" to shut down a lot of the Chinese expansion there. So, just for you sociopaths, it's not ALL about just stopping a genocide as if that wasn't enough for you.

And it's not like the US doesn't have assets in place to support operations in Sudan right now (bases in Djibouti and Saudi Arabia), even if it isn't US forces on the ground, stopping the Sudanese Air Force would be a huge start - and it's not like running a quick strike on the Sudanese Air Force with general world approval could be a bad thing for the US given how the world sees them now.

After all, it would stop them from being able to bomb villages in a remarkable string of coincidences where the villages just happen to be the ones where that completely separate from the government militia is about to commit atrocities.

You seem to be one of these people who are a strong believer in American superiority and manifest destiny. So how about actually stepping into those big shoes and seeing that America with minimal effort can go a long way towards bettering the world?
Well, good job. You did a better job persuading me than BHO did in Berlin.

Which once again begs the question: why did you need convincing that a currently occurring genocide needs to be addressed? You haven't answered that. Rather, you asked "why should I give a damn?"