Echo base defenses - ???

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Protip; hypersonic velocities irrelevant to CAS operations underneath a strict ceiling and operational boundary?

Considering they can accelerate at hundreds of gees handily to instanlty slow down or start tup from such speeds? What's the problem? Neverminding that not all shields are the same.

Besides which, what does my example have to do with the fact that you were claiming an icee world is goign to be a major threat to a shielded X-wing? do you seriously think it can stop lasers and proton torpedoes but ice can get through??

Actually, there's a chance that when the X-wing is brought outside the confines of the hanger initially, some of the warm air on the surface of the X-wing might actually freeze.

But that aside, the X-wing's wings have heat sinks built into them if I recall, so many there's less of an issue with ice.

[Connor MacLeod]

Actually, there's a chance that when the X-wing is brought outside the confines of the hanger initially, some of the warm air on the surface of the X-wing might actually freeze.

But that aside, the X-wing's wings have heat sinks built into them if I recall, so many there's less of an issue with ice.

Which difference is it going to make anyhow? We know they can endure temperature extermes (going to and from atmosphere, with the reentry, is a big indicator.) Its not going to shatter with extreme cold. Moisture or foreign matter won't affect them any sincec you can basically submerge and X-wing and superficially clean it out and it'll work (unless you ant to tell me Luke disassembled, cleaned out, tehn reassembled it)

We even know this isnt an issue because those fighters manage to get out of the hangar and into orbit. Big shock there.

And I'm certianly not worried about the frigging fighter falling due to aerodyanmics or anything on the surfaces, teh things have frigging repulsors after all (which in fact gives the X-wing some VTOL like qualities, including hover.)

Nervermind, of course, that you can certainly engage the s hields inside the hangar.

So again, where the heck is this "ice is going to be a big threat to an X-wing" coming from?

[JointStrikeFighter]

Protip; hypersonic velocities irrelevant to CAS operations underneath a strict ceiling and operational boundary?

Considering they can accelerate at hundreds of gees handily to instanlty slow down or start tup from such speeds? What's the problem? Neverminding that not all shields are the same.

Besides which, what does my example have to do with the fact that you were claiming an icee world is goign to be a major threat to a shielded X-wing? do you seriously think it can stop lasers and proton torpedoes but ice can get through??

When has that kind of deceleration been demonstrated in atmosphere?

[Connor MacLeod]

When has that kind of deceleration been demonstrated in atmosphere?

Are you a fucking moron? Or do you think I'm dumb enough to fall for your attmepts to redirect the conversation?

Edit: Just to humor you, you've just engaged in a red herring. More specifically, you've completely ignored the shield issue as a rebuttal to your nebulous "ice is a major danger to X-wings" claims, instead going off on this idiotic little tangent about acceleration and atmospheric velocity. Are you seriously claiming that the engines are FAR less efficient in the atmosphere than in space? How do you account for unexplained magical drop in effifienciy. (And don't try bullshitting by saying "they don't want to kill anyone on the ground with the energy release. Can and won't are two differen tthings, and that doesn't even consider thrust vs propellant usage.)

Double edit: And just in case you didn't notice, I cited TWO reasons for shield use in the atmosphere, and those are just the ones occuring to me off the top of my head. I could easily concede the "shields to allow hypersonci flight" issue (even though its merely an exampole of why they use shields in an atmosphere, its not even strictly NECCESARY for the ship to go hypersonic under the shield for the point to be valid - not that I expect you to admit that.) You've virtually ignored (more than once) the bit about protection against heavy vehicles liek AT-ATs, even though we KNOW they can threaten fighters (see Isard's Revenge - X-wings engage AT-ATs.)

[Ender]

Protip; hypersonic velocities irrelevant to CAS operations underneath a strict ceiling and operational boundary?

Considering they can accelerate at hundreds of gees handily to instanlty slow down or start tup from such speeds? What's the problem? Neverminding that not all shields are the same.

Besides which, what does my example have to do with the fact that you were claiming an icee world is goign to be a major threat to a shielded X-wing? do you seriously think it can stop lasers and proton torpedoes but ice can get through??

When has that kind of deceleration been demonstrated in atmosphere?

So, we routinely see them accelerate, but you then challenge the claim they can similarly decelerate, despite the fact that deceleration is simply acceleration along the opposite vector?

[Illuminatus Primus]

Actually, there's a chance that when the X-wing is brought outside the confines of the hanger initially, some of the warm air on the surface of the X-wing might actually freeze.

But that aside, the X-wing's wings have heat sinks built into them if I recall, so many there's less of an issue with ice.

Which difference is it going to make anyhow? We know they can endure temperature extermes (going to and from atmosphere, with the reentry, is a big indicator.) Its not going to shatter with extreme cold. Moisture or foreign matter won't affect them any sincec you can basically submerge and X-wing and superficially clean it out and it'll work (unless you ant to tell me Luke disassembled, cleaned out, tehn reassembled it)

We even know this isnt an issue because those fighters manage to get out of the hangar and into orbit. Big shock there.

And I'm certianly not worried about the frigging fighter falling due to aerodyanmics or anything on the surfaces, teh things have frigging repulsors after all (which in fact gives the X-wing some VTOL like qualities, including hover.)

Nervermind, of course, that you can certainly engage the s hields inside the hangar.

So again, where the heck is this "ice is going to be a big threat to an X-wing" coming from?

For what its worth, I discussed the heat-loss/cold-adaption issue with Erik and he said that if they are designed to shed heat as fast as possible in vacuum than heat loss to a cold medium like atmosphere could be an issue.

[Connor MacLeod]

Actually, there's a chance that when the X-wing is brought outside the confines of the hanger initially, some of the warm air on the surface of the X-wing might actually freeze.

But that aside, the X-wing's wings have heat sinks built into them if I recall, so many there's less of an issue with ice.

Which difference is it going to make anyhow? We know they can endure temperature extermes (going to and from atmosphere, with the reentry, is a big indicator.) Its not going to shatter with extreme cold. Moisture or foreign matter won't affect them any sincec you can basically submerge and X-wing and superficially clean it out and it'll work (unless you ant to tell me Luke disassembled, cleaned out, tehn reassembled it)

We even know this isnt an issue because those fighters manage to get out of the hangar and into orbit. Big shock there.

And I'm certianly not worried about the frigging fighter falling due to aerodyanmics or anything on the surfaces, teh things have frigging repulsors after all (which in fact gives the X-wing some VTOL like qualities, including hover.)

Nervermind, of course, that you can certainly engage the s hields inside the hangar.

So again, where the heck is this "ice is going to be a big threat to an X-wing" coming from?

For what its worth, I discussed the heat-loss/cold-adaption issue with Erik and he said that if they are designed to shed heat as fast as possible in vacuum than heat loss to a cold medium like atmosphere could be an issue.

Well, as I said before, the SWTJ commented on the "all weather capability" of the X-wing:

Planetary extremes have little to no effect on X-wing operating systems- the fighters have performed at noninal levels during blizzard, sandstorm, downpour electrical storm, and high-wind conditions. One craft (After minimal clearing of its intakes) even operated adequately, perhaps perfectly after being submerged in sediment-laden swamp waters.

Given that, it doesnt seem likely cold or ice will represent any sort of threat to X-wings.

[Omeganian]

I still think that the real issue is power, of which the Rebels had precious little to spare. Could they really have fed turbolasers without compromising the energy shield?.

Yes. They could have. The shield was designed to hold off dozens if not hundreds of heavy turbolasers, meaning it had a similar power output to all those together. A light turbolaser (BTW, designed to hit targets with speeds of many km/sec) would have been no drain at all.

[Connor MacLeod]

Yes. They could have. The shield was designed to hold off dozens if not hundreds of heavy turbolasers, meaning it had a similar power output to all those together. A light turbolaser (BTW, designed to hit targets with speeds of many km/sec) would have been no drain at all.

What makes you think a shield neccesarily consumes huge amounts of power the same way energy weapons do? Where does that energy go? Do thermodynamics somehow magically go out the window?

[Illuminatus Primus]

I still think that the real issue is power, of which the Rebels had precious little to spare. Could they really have fed turbolasers without compromising the energy shield?.

Yes. They could have. The shield was designed to hold off dozens if not hundreds of heavy turbolasers, meaning it had a similar power output to all those together. A light turbolaser (BTW, designed to hit targets with speeds of many km/sec) would have been no drain at all.

Uh, no. Why do you think a shield needs a comparable power output to the energy its capable of dissipating from impacts?

[Ender]

It is worth noting that the ISB states that capital ships dedicate 25% of their total power (on average) to powering the shields. Though that appears to have been retconned to the dissipation rate being 25% of peak power (on average)

[PeZook]

On engine efficiency: impulse engines (the X-Wings use ridiculously powerful ion engines, right? So they still use reaction mass?) are actually around 20% less efficient in atmosphere than in vacuum due to the pressure.

It's a minor nitpick, though. Those things can fight in space at relatistiv speeds ; They shouldn't have a problem accelerating to supersonic velocities quickly, reduced efficiency or not.

[Ender]

On engine efficiency: impulse engines (the X-Wings use ridiculously powerful ion engines, right? So they still use reaction mass?) are actually around 20% less efficient in atmosphere than in vacuum due to the pressure.

Care to demonstrate that?

[PeZook]

On engine efficiency: impulse engines (the X-Wings use ridiculously powerful ion engines, right? So they still use reaction mass?) are actually around 20% less efficient in atmosphere than in vacuum due to the pressure.

Care to demonstrate that?

This graph demonstrates it. AFAIK, his happens because air pressure inteferes with the exhaust. Of course:

1) X-Wings are not chemical rockets, and

2) Even if it works the same way, the sheer power output of X-Wing engines makes it unlikely the pilot would have a thrust deficiency when flying CAS

[Wyrm]

1) X-Wings are not chemical rockets, and

It doesn't matter. Any propulsion system that uses gases doing work on the engine's exhaust bell to push it forward will suffer a hit in an atmosphere, as the gases also have to do work against the atmosphere too.

Contragravity is another matter entirely. X-wings have to have contragravity; you don't float straight up (in ANH) without some serious exhaust if you don't have contragrav.

2) Even if it works the same way, the sheer power output of X-Wing engines makes it unlikely the pilot would have a thrust deficiency when flying CAS

You're right about that. Heck, they don't even bother streamlining the speeders. They have the aerodynamics of a fucking brick.